Totals 2019
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Mars
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Name of Airline:
BA
Aircraft Type
A320
Hours flown
750 hours
Position
FO (FPP) 2 years in.
Salary
32k basic plus around £1500 pcm duty + flight play
Busy all year round at Heathrow around 12 days off per month. At Gatwick it’s very quiet in the winter with around 15+ days off per month
BA
Aircraft Type
A320
Hours flown
750 hours
Position
FO (FPP) 2 years in.
Salary
32k basic plus around £1500 pcm duty + flight play
Busy all year round at Heathrow around 12 days off per month. At Gatwick it’s very quiet in the winter with around 15+ days off per month
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK
Age: 33
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SEBBES,
Thanks for sharing info, looks like you've had a good year given due consideration for the TR deductions.
I personally am against the TR deductions, I really think it should just be training bond contract like most airlines offer, I'm sure TUI would have a lot more applicants if this was the case. But obviously they must be getting the numbers required so I guess the TR deduction will stay in place until otherwise.
My question is, if you join TUI with a B738 rating how long are you frozen on type?
Also if you have a successful bid to change fleet to the 787 will you then be offered a conventional training bond contract? Or despite having time in the company, will there still be a TR deduction?
Thanks again!
Thanks for sharing info, looks like you've had a good year given due consideration for the TR deductions.
I personally am against the TR deductions, I really think it should just be training bond contract like most airlines offer, I'm sure TUI would have a lot more applicants if this was the case. But obviously they must be getting the numbers required so I guess the TR deduction will stay in place until otherwise.
My question is, if you join TUI with a B738 rating how long are you frozen on type?
Also if you have a successful bid to change fleet to the 787 will you then be offered a conventional training bond contract? Or despite having time in the company, will there still be a TR deduction?
Thanks again!
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: UK
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SEBBES,
Thanks for sharing info, looks like you've had a good year given due consideration for the TR deductions.
I personally am against the TR deductions, I really think it should just be training bond contract like most airlines offer, I'm sure TUI would have a lot more applicants if this was the case. But obviously they must be getting the numbers required so I guess the TR deduction will stay in place until otherwise.
My question is, if you join TUI with a B738 rating how long are you frozen on type?
Also if you have a successful bid to change fleet to the 787 will you then be offered a conventional training bond contract? Or despite having time in the company, will there still be a TR deduction?
Thanks again!
Thanks for sharing info, looks like you've had a good year given due consideration for the TR deductions.
I personally am against the TR deductions, I really think it should just be training bond contract like most airlines offer, I'm sure TUI would have a lot more applicants if this was the case. But obviously they must be getting the numbers required so I guess the TR deduction will stay in place until otherwise.
My question is, if you join TUI with a B738 rating how long are you frozen on type?
Also if you have a successful bid to change fleet to the 787 will you then be offered a conventional training bond contract? Or despite having time in the company, will there still be a TR deduction?
Thanks again!
I can only say I completely agree with you. I would be much more in favour of the airline introducing a "traditional bond" - nothing up front but pay X amount if you leave, depreciating over 3 years as an example. The way I had to look at it personally was, even with the deduction, it was a considerable improvement in both pay and lifestyle so it was a very easy decision to make.
Type rated candidates joining are bonded for 1 year at a 7k (total) deduction. Joining non type rated like myself I am fleet frozen for 3 years, so could only bid for 73/78 dual as opposed to 78 only. Type rated candidates who join are fleet frozen for 1 year. My understanding of guys who joined when I did and successfully bid for 73/78, is relatively poor so I can't shed much light on it. If after 3 years I am successful for a 78 only bid there will be no further deduction in salary -that I do know.
As a whole though, despite the deduction its genuinely crazy how little you can work in the winter and what you can earn on a full time contract still. No complaints from me, I haven't flown since the 12th of December and my next flight is 18th of Jan, just as an example.
Hope that helps.
Enjoy being semi-retired in the winter months!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sandpit...
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ME3
6yr B787 SFO
880 hrs
Bit over 105K EUR per year net (no taxes here)
Company accommodation provided.
On average 16-18 days OFF per month
Around 4-5 trips a month.
Dom
6yr B787 SFO
880 hrs
Bit over 105K EUR per year net (no taxes here)
Company accommodation provided.
On average 16-18 days OFF per month
Around 4-5 trips a month.
Dom
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In the air
Age: 37
Posts: 11
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Irish LCC
B738
Captain (3 years)
Continental EU
5 on 4 off roster (12-16 days off per month)
Total 2019: 735 hours in 229 sectors
Gross: 141k €
Net: 91k € (single no children)
Av Monthly: 7.6k €
Far from US figures but not that bad considering I’m based where I’ve always wanted...
B738
Captain (3 years)
Continental EU
5 on 4 off roster (12-16 days off per month)
Total 2019: 735 hours in 229 sectors
Gross: 141k €
Net: 91k € (single no children)
Av Monthly: 7.6k €
Far from US figures but not that bad considering I’m based where I’ve always wanted...
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: london
Posts: 133
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Airline: Titan
Type: A320
Position: FO (1st year)
Salary: £52530 Basic before tax- 5k/ish in allowances/per diems.
Roster: Incredibly varied.
Days off: At least 8 per month, more in winter.
Lots of positioning and night stopping when operating for other carriers out of base, 30 minute standby callouts. Occasional trips, Banjul etc.
Type: A320
Position: FO (1st year)
Salary: £52530 Basic before tax- 5k/ish in allowances/per diems.
Roster: Incredibly varied.
Days off: At least 8 per month, more in winter.
Lots of positioning and night stopping when operating for other carriers out of base, 30 minute standby callouts. Occasional trips, Banjul etc.
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 3
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WestJet Airlines
CYYC based
Yr. 7/8 B737NG Captain
Totals in CAD currency
Base salary- $187,000
Employee share purchase plan ( tax sheltered in RRSP/TFSA)- $35,700
Stock option/Restricted share unit payout (inflated this year due to ONEX purchase of WJA)- $128,000
Profit share- $7,500
Total 2019 tax-eligible compensation: $358,200
Total 2019 tax-exempt compensation (Per diems/dry cleaning): $8,200
2019 hours flown- 580
2019 credit hours- 950
Worked 132 days after vacation/statutory holiday days taken into account
2020 estimates (more normalized considering the ONEX purchase of WS will not be included. Also years of service now in effect in Collective Agreement eg. year 7 FO upgrades go to yr. 7 Captain, not yr. 1 Captain as before)
Yr. 12 B737NG Captain
Base salary- $209,500
Cash bonus (in lieu of ESPP and stock option grant)- $52,198
Profit share (estimate) - $8,500
Total- $270,198
*Assumption of hours flown to be slightly higher when MAX comes back online*
CYYC based
Yr. 7/8 B737NG Captain
Totals in CAD currency
Base salary- $187,000
Employee share purchase plan ( tax sheltered in RRSP/TFSA)- $35,700
Stock option/Restricted share unit payout (inflated this year due to ONEX purchase of WJA)- $128,000
Profit share- $7,500
Total 2019 tax-eligible compensation: $358,200
Total 2019 tax-exempt compensation (Per diems/dry cleaning): $8,200
2019 hours flown- 580
2019 credit hours- 950
Worked 132 days after vacation/statutory holiday days taken into account
2020 estimates (more normalized considering the ONEX purchase of WS will not be included. Also years of service now in effect in Collective Agreement eg. year 7 FO upgrades go to yr. 7 Captain, not yr. 1 Captain as before)
Yr. 12 B737NG Captain
Base salary- $209,500
Cash bonus (in lieu of ESPP and stock option grant)- $52,198
Profit share (estimate) - $8,500
Total- $270,198
*Assumption of hours flown to be slightly higher when MAX comes back online*
Last edited by WS pilot; 16th Jan 2020 at 22:22.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Nevada
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United SFO 787 CA
salary $425,000 (not including any premium pay)
retirement $68,000
profit sharing (est) $34,000
3 trips per month for 6 months-16 days off
2 trips per month for 6 months-20 days off (vac months)
918 actual flight hours per year
30 flown trips per year
I lived in California for 25 years and made a lot of money on the houses that I lived in but also paid a LOT of state income tax. Two years ago I moved to Nevada and am saving about $4,000 per month in state income tax and living expenses as a result. (Nevada has no state income tax and is a lot cheaper than California.)
Federal income tax in the US is now pretty low under our relatively new federal tax system. I expect it will take about 26% of my salary and profit sharing.
salary $425,000 (not including any premium pay)
retirement $68,000
profit sharing (est) $34,000
3 trips per month for 6 months-16 days off
2 trips per month for 6 months-20 days off (vac months)
918 actual flight hours per year
30 flown trips per year
I lived in California for 25 years and made a lot of money on the houses that I lived in but also paid a LOT of state income tax. Two years ago I moved to Nevada and am saving about $4,000 per month in state income tax and living expenses as a result. (Nevada has no state income tax and is a lot cheaper than California.)
Federal income tax in the US is now pretty low under our relatively new federal tax system. I expect it will take about 26% of my salary and profit sharing.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: DAVER
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United SFO 787 CA
salary $425,000 (not including any premium pay)
retirement $68,000
profit sharing (est) $34,000
3 trips per month for 6 months-16 days off
2 trips per month for 6 months-20 days off (vac months)
918 actual flight hours per year
30 flown trips per year
I lived in California for 25 years and made a lot of money on the houses that I lived in but also paid a LOT of state income tax. Two years ago I moved to Nevada and am saving about $4,000 per month in state income tax and living expenses as a result. (Nevada has no state income tax and is a lot cheaper than California.)
Federal income tax in the US is now pretty low under our relatively new federal tax system. I expect it will take about 26% of my salary and profit sharing.
salary $425,000 (not including any premium pay)
retirement $68,000
profit sharing (est) $34,000
3 trips per month for 6 months-16 days off
2 trips per month for 6 months-20 days off (vac months)
918 actual flight hours per year
30 flown trips per year
I lived in California for 25 years and made a lot of money on the houses that I lived in but also paid a LOT of state income tax. Two years ago I moved to Nevada and am saving about $4,000 per month in state income tax and living expenses as a result. (Nevada has no state income tax and is a lot cheaper than California.)
Federal income tax in the US is now pretty low under our relatively new federal tax system. I expect it will take about 26% of my salary and profit sharing.
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 125
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United SFO 787 CA
salary $425,000 (not including any premium pay)
retirement $68,000
profit sharing (est) $34,000
3 trips per month for 6 months-16 days off
2 trips per month for 6 months-20 days off (vac months)
918 actual flight hours per year
30 flown trips per year
I lived in California for 25 years and made a lot of money on the houses that I lived in but also paid a LOT of state income tax. Two years ago I moved to Nevada and am saving about $4,000 per month in state income tax and living expenses as a result. (Nevada has no state income tax and is a lot cheaper than California.)
Federal income tax in the US is now pretty low under our relatively new federal tax system. I expect it will take about 26% of my salary and profit sharing.
salary $425,000 (not including any premium pay)
retirement $68,000
profit sharing (est) $34,000
3 trips per month for 6 months-16 days off
2 trips per month for 6 months-20 days off (vac months)
918 actual flight hours per year
30 flown trips per year
I lived in California for 25 years and made a lot of money on the houses that I lived in but also paid a LOT of state income tax. Two years ago I moved to Nevada and am saving about $4,000 per month in state income tax and living expenses as a result. (Nevada has no state income tax and is a lot cheaper than California.)
Federal income tax in the US is now pretty low under our relatively new federal tax system. I expect it will take about 26% of my salary and profit sharing.
that is amazing !!! Europe needs to wake up
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Nevada
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Like someone pointed out earlier, we got absolutely raped in the 2000's after 9-11 and bankruptcy. I went from 767 captain to 744 captain in 2004 and was making $187K if you can believe that. We've been making up for lost time for about the last 6-7 years but man! It was ugly in the 2000's.
Can this level of pay and benefits continue? UAL does around $40 billion in sales and nets close to 10% so they're making money hand over fist right now but will it continue? Who knows? Going by past experience, every time it gets this good, the bottom falls out and it all goes to sh!t almost over night so we'll see.
Can this level of pay and benefits continue? UAL does around $40 billion in sales and nets close to 10% so they're making money hand over fist right now but will it continue? Who knows? Going by past experience, every time it gets this good, the bottom falls out and it all goes to sh!t almost over night so we'll see.
Australia
Below is a different perspective.
Australian Major Domestic carrier FO B737 figures in Australian Dollars. 15,000 Total time (mostly jet two crew), degree, 25 years in the industry.
Rough figures:
180,000 before tax (about 155,000 is base rest is rostered overtime)(123,500 USD) (111,500 EUR).
15,000 overnight meal allowances (cash in hand).
18,000 in retirement paid by company per law.
~750 hours.
42 days annual leave.
13x28 day rosters alternating 11/12 days off. Roster comes out a week before it starts.
Mainly 4 sector exhausting days with a significant number of overnights.
Min rest is 12 hours can reduce to 10, 15 at home base.
Food on board varies sometimes good sometimes bad I bring my own back up food.
Lounge entry (unlimited food bev) on long ground turns.
Overtime at roster publish protected (cancelled or changed flights won’t cause a loss of cash going sick/fatigued will).
Hotels mid range.
Little to no progression mainly seniority based.
No commuting rights.
Staff travel pretty good.
Can work extra days if so inclined.
Generally rostered to max duty minus 15-30 minutes for most duties.
After tax per month it comes
to about about $10,500 (7200 USD) (6500 EUR) a month Captains are about $14,000.
The cost of living exceptionally high. Median house price in my area is $8-900,000 and I’m well out of the city nothing flash. Base model European car is $50,000. Credit card bill for a family probably $8000 a month. Everyone has a base level medical insurance from the government (medical system is pretty good). Most pilots and professionals would have private health cover on top. Public school is rubbish, Catholic a few thousand a year Private very expensive and quite commonly the choice for professionals. If you lose your job and have any money/assets you use all that up then unemployment scheme which would barely buy food. A lot of wives work but childcare is again exceptionally expensive so if her wage isn’t high then it’s barely worth it. My wife has to work a few days to stay ahead but we are hardly on struggle street.
Major domestic pilots are above the average wage but not by far for FO’s. Trades would be on about 100, Doctors starting at 2-300k. Police 90 Teachers/Nurses about 100 Hospitality about 50, Regional jet FO about 110.
Tax system sounds similar to EU, Massive above $180,000 and above $250,000 (Capt) they hit their retirement $ as well with a bill in the mail. Each election the top end of earners get punched with some new scheme.
Country running on debt highest on the planet. Borrowed time... (massive personal debt home loans and credit card). People have been living beyond their means for about 20 years. Eating out all the time, going for multiple coffees everyday. No recession in 30 years people have no concept of a downturn.
The crunch is coming as the workers can’t foot the aged pension (government) bill and it’s about to get ugly in the next few years. (Read more and more levies taxes for professionals).
Ageing population getting bigger and bigger. Large (massive) influx of foreigners to keep growth going as there’s nothing else holding the place up.
There is a wages thread in the Australian forum. Reasonably accurate doesn’t get updated much. Most wage negotiations involve trading and generally you can expect 1.5-3%. Jetstar are having a stoush over it at the moment as I believe they’ve had a new rostering system introduced that has them now doing overnights. Tiger their competitor received large pay rises but are part of the much less profitable Virgin Group.
Australian Major Domestic carrier FO B737 figures in Australian Dollars. 15,000 Total time (mostly jet two crew), degree, 25 years in the industry.
Rough figures:
180,000 before tax (about 155,000 is base rest is rostered overtime)(123,500 USD) (111,500 EUR).
15,000 overnight meal allowances (cash in hand).
18,000 in retirement paid by company per law.
~750 hours.
42 days annual leave.
13x28 day rosters alternating 11/12 days off. Roster comes out a week before it starts.
Mainly 4 sector exhausting days with a significant number of overnights.
Min rest is 12 hours can reduce to 10, 15 at home base.
Food on board varies sometimes good sometimes bad I bring my own back up food.
Lounge entry (unlimited food bev) on long ground turns.
Overtime at roster publish protected (cancelled or changed flights won’t cause a loss of cash going sick/fatigued will).
Hotels mid range.
Little to no progression mainly seniority based.
No commuting rights.
Staff travel pretty good.
Can work extra days if so inclined.
Generally rostered to max duty minus 15-30 minutes for most duties.
After tax per month it comes
to about about $10,500 (7200 USD) (6500 EUR) a month Captains are about $14,000.
The cost of living exceptionally high. Median house price in my area is $8-900,000 and I’m well out of the city nothing flash. Base model European car is $50,000. Credit card bill for a family probably $8000 a month. Everyone has a base level medical insurance from the government (medical system is pretty good). Most pilots and professionals would have private health cover on top. Public school is rubbish, Catholic a few thousand a year Private very expensive and quite commonly the choice for professionals. If you lose your job and have any money/assets you use all that up then unemployment scheme which would barely buy food. A lot of wives work but childcare is again exceptionally expensive so if her wage isn’t high then it’s barely worth it. My wife has to work a few days to stay ahead but we are hardly on struggle street.
Major domestic pilots are above the average wage but not by far for FO’s. Trades would be on about 100, Doctors starting at 2-300k. Police 90 Teachers/Nurses about 100 Hospitality about 50, Regional jet FO about 110.
Tax system sounds similar to EU, Massive above $180,000 and above $250,000 (Capt) they hit their retirement $ as well with a bill in the mail. Each election the top end of earners get punched with some new scheme.
Country running on debt highest on the planet. Borrowed time... (massive personal debt home loans and credit card). People have been living beyond their means for about 20 years. Eating out all the time, going for multiple coffees everyday. No recession in 30 years people have no concept of a downturn.
The crunch is coming as the workers can’t foot the aged pension (government) bill and it’s about to get ugly in the next few years. (Read more and more levies taxes for professionals).
Ageing population getting bigger and bigger. Large (massive) influx of foreigners to keep growth going as there’s nothing else holding the place up.
There is a wages thread in the Australian forum. Reasonably accurate doesn’t get updated much. Most wage negotiations involve trading and generally you can expect 1.5-3%. Jetstar are having a stoush over it at the moment as I believe they’ve had a new rostering system introduced that has them now doing overnights. Tiger their competitor received large pay rises but are part of the much less profitable Virgin Group.
Last edited by Berealgetreal; 23rd Jan 2020 at 07:39.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
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Correct. In the US they tend to abbreviate captain CA and not CPT. Also, I don't think Senior FO (SFO) is much of a thing there.
Last edited by 733driver; 23rd Jan 2020 at 10:24.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
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Ah of course, my bad. I was thinking CA was California!
It still seems higher than I expected for $352/hr and no premium pay. But I’m not sure exactly what premium pay is, maybe it doesn’t mean getting double time for certain trips which would boost the salary.
What an incredible package, on all accounts it’s MULTIPLES of that of a UK captain. What a pity British born people can’t apply for the green card lottery!
I feel unfortunately Europe will never be like this. We have companies that can operate and recruit across the vastly different economies of the EU, yet the unions are all divided and country specific.
It still seems higher than I expected for $352/hr and no premium pay. But I’m not sure exactly what premium pay is, maybe it doesn’t mean getting double time for certain trips which would boost the salary.
What an incredible package, on all accounts it’s MULTIPLES of that of a UK captain. What a pity British born people can’t apply for the green card lottery!
I feel unfortunately Europe will never be like this. We have companies that can operate and recruit across the vastly different economies of the EU, yet the unions are all divided and country specific.