Why don’t many low cost airlines offer ZED fares or ID90s
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Why don’t many low cost airlines offer ZED fares or ID90s
Particularly in Europe many low cost airlines don’t offer ID90s or ZED fares? It is one of the reasons I stopped working in Europe as commuting is too expensive. In addition to that there is no airline wide jumpseating program like CASS in the US.
I genuinely believe beside pay and taxes, it’s one of the reasons many pilots like myself don’t return to work in Europe as if a base closes or your airline goes bust you’re stuck with a tiring and expensive commute.
I would be very interested to hear management's point of view as it hurts both the pilots and the airlines, as the pilots want more money to justify an expensive commute and the airlines lose some albeit very small additional revenue with fees and ancillary revenue.
I genuinely believe beside pay and taxes, it’s one of the reasons many pilots like myself don’t return to work in Europe as if a base closes or your airline goes bust you’re stuck with a tiring and expensive commute.
I would be very interested to hear management's point of view as it hurts both the pilots and the airlines, as the pilots want more money to justify an expensive commute and the airlines lose some albeit very small additional revenue with fees and ancillary revenue.
Last edited by CaptainJim; 16th Oct 2019 at 22:09. Reason: Grammar
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I think you are actually right, it doesn't really matter as you only go on when a seat is available . And on my last company a ZED ticket was even more expensive than a normal ticket, if you booked that a bit in advance. So the company could probably even make some money on it.
But one reason might be, that most LCCs are not IATA members, which isn't a requirement for Staff travel, but it seems like most IATA members have ZED/ID90 non members don't.
But one reason might be, that most LCCs are not IATA members, which isn't a requirement for Staff travel, but it seems like most IATA members have ZED/ID90 non members don't.
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I have made very, very little use of airline staff travel when I have had it available to me for the simple reason that it is so very unreliable. Airlines are doing everything that they can to fill seats with confirmed bookings so the chances of getting a 'spare seat' are very rare. Having spent 11 hrs on a cabin-crew jump-seat and many nervous hours wondering if I would get a seat, for a price that is the same as, if not more than, the cost of a confirmed seat booked 'on-line', that cheap confirmed seat is "worth" far, far more than any ID90 ticket.
The airline world has changed. If you plan carefully, cheap seats are available. ID90s are now just far too unreliable to have any real value.
The airline world has changed. If you plan carefully, cheap seats are available. ID90s are now just far too unreliable to have any real value.
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In a certain way that is true. ID Travel is not anymore for going on holiday with your family. Confirmed tickets cost little more, but a lot less stress.
ID tickets are more used to commute with some options available and they simply give you the flexibility in case of roster changes.
ID tickets are more used to commute with some options available and they simply give you the flexibility in case of roster changes.
I have made very, very little use of airline staff travel when I have had it available to me for the simple reason that it is so very unreliable. Airlines are doing everything that they can to fill seats with confirmed bookings so the chances of getting a 'spare seat' are very rare. Having spent 11 hrs on a cabin-crew jump-seat and many nervous hours wondering if I would get a seat, for a price that is the same as, if not more than, the cost of a confirmed seat booked 'on-line', that cheap confirmed seat is "worth" far, far more than any ID90 ticket.
The airline world has changed. If you plan carefully, cheap seats are available. ID90s are now just far too unreliable to have any real value.
The airline world has changed. If you plan carefully, cheap seats are available. ID90s are now just far too unreliable to have any real value.
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Are you retired? Just wondering how the flexibility fits in with time available.
For us the certainty of a confirmed seat is worth the price (and often cheaper if you end up with unplanned hotel costs added on top of your staff travel ticket cost).
We have travelled right around the world on confirmed tickets booked well in advance at a good price when we did have staff travel (with one of the major Alliances -- there's a clue!) available to us, Many asked us if we were going to use staff travel and we said that we were specifically ruling that out because we didn't want to risk wasting time and money with the uncertainty. We wanted that certainty to help us enjoy the trip.
For us the certainty of a confirmed seat is worth the price (and often cheaper if you end up with unplanned hotel costs added on top of your staff travel ticket cost).
We have travelled right around the world on confirmed tickets booked well in advance at a good price when we did have staff travel (with one of the major Alliances -- there's a clue!) available to us, Many asked us if we were going to use staff travel and we said that we were specifically ruling that out because we didn't want to risk wasting time and money with the uncertainty. We wanted that certainty to help us enjoy the trip.
Are you retired? Just wondering how the flexibility fits in with time available.
For us the certainty of a confirmed seat is worth the price (and often cheaper if you end up with unplanned hotel costs added on top of your staff travel ticket cost).
We have travelled right around the world on confirmed tickets booked well in advance at a good price when we did have staff travel (with one of the major Alliances -- there's a clue!) available to us, Many asked us if we were going to use staff travel and we said that we were specifically ruling that out because we didn't want to risk wasting time and money with the uncertainty. We wanted that certainty to help us enjoy the trip.
For us the certainty of a confirmed seat is worth the price (and often cheaper if you end up with unplanned hotel costs added on top of your staff travel ticket cost).
We have travelled right around the world on confirmed tickets booked well in advance at a good price when we did have staff travel (with one of the major Alliances -- there's a clue!) available to us, Many asked us if we were going to use staff travel and we said that we were specifically ruling that out because we didn't want to risk wasting time and money with the uncertainty. We wanted that certainty to help us enjoy the trip.
In terms of hotels, I either budget for whatever period I am planning to stay and/or book stays with free cancellation until shortly before arrival. If I end up arriving a day later, too bad but no real money "lost" in my view. I guess the value in ID90 tickets is there for this kind of approach. I can also see your point of view, believe me, I just thought it was kind of harsh to say it has no value.
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Apparently it's more of a Europe thing. Most major low costs in Europe like Ryanair/EasyJet/Norwegian/Wizz Air don't have ID/ZED agreements with other airlines. The only exceptions I remember are Germanwings and Vueling, but because they're part of Lufthansa Group and IAG respectively.
But if you think on a worldwide perspective there are quite someLCC with ID/ZED available.
Canada: WestJet
USA: Southwest, JetBlue, Frontier
South America: GOL, SkyAirline
Asia/Oceania: Jetstar, Flydubai, Tigerair
But if you think on a worldwide perspective there are quite someLCC with ID/ZED available.
Canada: WestJet
USA: Southwest, JetBlue, Frontier
South America: GOL, SkyAirline
Asia/Oceania: Jetstar, Flydubai, Tigerair
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It basically boils down to the fact it costs money to run a Zed arrangement and requires some administration expenses, time to co-ordinate deals etc. There's no incentive for them to do this when it's seen as an additional, unnecessary cost.
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While that might work traveling as a couple or alone, it get's pretty nerve-wrecking with a family unless everyone is old and mature enough to be sent and wait alone and maybe even do part of the trip alone. It has admittedly become a lot easier with online ticket booking but even traveling alone I've ended up on the last jumpseat and prefer a bit more expensive booked staff tickets. A day here or there for flexibility is quite a lot if summer vacation is limited to two weeks. Airport fees are quite a big part of ticket costs here (and charged for SBY as well), which reduces the difference between SBY and confirmed.
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There must be a more logical reason.
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There is the answer. A LCC have no interest to give it away for 70 but would have sold it to someone for 3800 or thereabouts.
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... as I originally stated it is an excellent tax free salary incentive that would make everyone’s life easier. They still gain some extra revenue and they already have staff working in their own staff travel departments. Euro LOCO is just that crazy and very short sighted. Raising salaries over 100k only gives more money to the taxman.
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Well it would be quite hard to get a standby ticket e.g at Wizz Air where no such category exist. If there are no free seats left you can't book a ticket. If there are empty seats then your booking (be it positioning, christmas ticket, bonus ticket or any kind of company travel) is OK and confirmed. You learn to appreciate this when the average load factor reported is over 90%.
For example. many would want a Virgin Atlantic/Easyjet travel swap. The Virgin guy could reasonbly commute on easyjet easyjet staff travel (upto 2 flights a week?) but for the easyjet guy, it would just be for a holiday maybe once a year on Virgin.
If the VA guy is using easyjet twice a week, that's potentially a massive loss in revenue at easyjet. Of course, staff travel swaps would probably account for most of those circumstances anyway but it would certainly be a net loss for easyjet.
I'm an easyjet captain and would of course love one of these schemes, our staff travel is pretty good tbf. You can often get confirmed tickets and if you book a standby, confirmed staff travel tickets are regularly released so it could possibly convert into a confirmed. Also, our confirmed staff travel tickets (EXACTLY the same price as a standby) are privy to EC261 compensation which is incredible tbh for a ticket that's £5+taxes.
In the US, a far larger number of pilots commute from their hometown to whatever major hub they've been shoved in so a better commuter scheme is more valuable there.
I realise that it's lovely to have reciprocal travel arrangements in place, but that kind of undermines the entire stratagy of low-cost, which is to disrupt/defeat the legacy carriers legacy.
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That said, i did enjoy staff travel with either direct reciprocal discount or ZED tickets all over the world, and especially so the chance to use business travel on longhaul flights as that makes longhaul flights bearable to begin with. Now working in an airline that has no deal with any other airline (we have internal staff travel though, both standby and confirmed bookings) i have to adjust there and search for normal tickets like anybody else in the general public, and that is no problem either.