BA pilots vote to strike
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We flew BA for the first time in a while (last few years it has tended to be Virgin for longhaul or Tui for family holidays). Forgot how much we missed the BA cabin service, it's good to see the quality is still right up there.
What was sad to hear though was the morale of the cabin crew is way down (I know this thread is about BA pilots but there's a lot of discussion about employee benefits etc.) - we were quite shocked to hear we got our tickets for less than the cabin crew can get them for with staff discount! We had quite a long chat with a couple of cabin crew and I don't know how they keep going - although one said it was the only job she knew.
Just wanted to voice my support for BA front line staff everywhere - I really hope you can all get back the job conditions you deserve. BA should be the best in the world and that starts with keeping the employees happy.
What was sad to hear though was the morale of the cabin crew is way down (I know this thread is about BA pilots but there's a lot of discussion about employee benefits etc.) - we were quite shocked to hear we got our tickets for less than the cabin crew can get them for with staff discount! We had quite a long chat with a couple of cabin crew and I don't know how they keep going - although one said it was the only job she knew.
Just wanted to voice my support for BA front line staff everywhere - I really hope you can all get back the job conditions you deserve. BA should be the best in the world and that starts with keeping the employees happy.
Outside of peak season on a certain route I have actually bought commercial tickets that, with the frequent flyer points discount, have cost less than a standby staff travel ticket would have cost on the same flight....
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Yep, it happens..Without going into too much detail I'd offer the opinion that as crew the problem can be having to arrange travel around rostered work. The timing of roster publication can often rule out crew getting hold of the cheap commercial tickets or any discounted tickets that might have been available when the booking window for the flight first opened.
Outside of peak season on a certain route I have actually bought commercial tickets that, with the frequent flyer points discount, have cost less than a standby staff travel ticket would have cost on the same flight....
Outside of peak season on a certain route I have actually bought commercial tickets that, with the frequent flyer points discount, have cost less than a standby staff travel ticket would have cost on the same flight....
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I got to 8.5 with 4% year 1, 3.5% year 2 and the 1% sign on bonus....ok that’s a one off, just realised that. 8.5% in jan still stands with 7.5% increase on the basic.
I don’t think anyone has been hung out to dry. We knew we would loose staff travel, we knew we would loose pay. The amount lost I agree needs to be fought. I assumed it would be a days pay at the daily rate for the month.
I don’t think a strike again will work. Every FO says they can’t afford to strike again with how much they lost.
Hopefully nobody is hung out to dry.
I don’t think anyone has been hung out to dry. We knew we would loose staff travel, we knew we would loose pay. The amount lost I agree needs to be fought. I assumed it would be a days pay at the daily rate for the month.
I don’t think a strike again will work. Every FO says they can’t afford to strike again with how much they lost.
Hopefully nobody is hung out to dry.
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yes. And over here it’s not uncommon to have a few hostages that the company tries to discipline. We refuse to sign any contract unless all grievances are settled. Support your fellow crew! How can you even consider a contract that wouldn’t make the ones that went on strike for BA whole? They fought your fight... make sure you take care of them.
I understand fully where you are coming from cessnax but you need to see this in the context of the UK and also appreciate how deep the company's pockets are/what funds they might have access to..
For years the advice on the line has been make sure you have a months pay in the bank for contingencies
but the reality is there are many pilots in the UK who have leveraged themselves up to their ears and beyond to get into the industry, perhaps buy a house within traveling distance of London, and probably umpteeen other things. For many of them extended (as in multiple week / multiple month?) Industrial Action on zero pay is simply a non-starter on practical grounds. I don't like the situation but have to recognise that that's the Realpolitik that the union is working in.
That said I don't think there is any intention of leaving anybody behind.
For years the advice on the line has been make sure you have a months pay in the bank for contingencies
but the reality is there are many pilots in the UK who have leveraged themselves up to their ears and beyond to get into the industry, perhaps buy a house within traveling distance of London, and probably umpteeen other things. For many of them extended (as in multiple week / multiple month?) Industrial Action on zero pay is simply a non-starter on practical grounds. I don't like the situation but have to recognise that that's the Realpolitik that the union is working in.That said I don't think there is any intention of leaving anybody behind.
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I understand fully where you are coming from cessnax but you need to see this in the context of the UK and also appreciate how deep the company's pockets are/what funds they might have access to..
For years the advice on the line has been make sure you have a months pay in the bank for contingencies but the reality is there are many pilots in the UK who have leveraged themselves up to their ears and beyond to get into the industry, perhaps buy a house within traveling distance of London, and probably umpteeen other things. For many of them extended (as in multiple week / multiple month?) Industrial Action on zero pay is simply a non-starter on practical grounds. I don't like the situation but have to recognise that that's the Realpolitik that the union is working in.
That said I don't think there is any intention of leaving anybody behind.
For years the advice on the line has been make sure you have a months pay in the bank for contingencies
but the reality is there are many pilots in the UK who have leveraged themselves up to their ears and beyond to get into the industry, perhaps buy a house within traveling distance of London, and probably umpteeen other things. For many of them extended (as in multiple week / multiple month?) Industrial Action on zero pay is simply a non-starter on practical grounds. I don't like the situation but have to recognise that that's the Realpolitik that the union is working in.That said I don't think there is any intention of leaving anybody behind.
Best of luck. I can empathize with the stress and uncertainty.
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When I joined BA in the later 90’s I joined Balpa. Over the years I voted on various issues, was on the losing side sometimes but accepted that as democracy at work. In 2016 though Balpa helped BA bring in JSS bidding. A strong statement but I say it because of (off the top of my head) the new bidline was sent to us as an 8 page black and white single font print document while JSS was a 32 page document with colour, different size fonts, diagrams etc; a much more interesting read. Also Balpa produced a JSS promotional video where a Rep stated that “under JSS everyone will get their very own bespoke roster, designed by you for you” Well as a junior captain I could see there was no way I could just design a Hong Kong, weekend off, Cape Town, weekend off etc roster and at a subsequent seminar the same rep admitted that statement was wrong. Anyway as a result of strong selling from Balpa we got JSS and I resigned from Balpa, not because I lost but because I felt the BACC no longer represented its members. (On a side note last year I was full time until October and have since been 75% part time, and yet this year under JSS I have done 25 more days at work than last years bidline year)
So I have been watching this strike from the side lines. Clearly there were a number of colleagues disgruntled with the BACC hence the election results giving them a new leadership.Initially I was impressed by the strong stance and threat of strike and very impressed that they chose to avoid August as Sept was still costly but avoided tv footage of families losing their holidays. I was also equally very impressed at the solidarity shown by those unfortunate enough to be in the firing line when the day came.
We all expected BA to be tough. We expected the staff travel embargo but not how 2 days strike would cost about a weeks wages! And talking to my colleagues since the strike then the general view has been the similar to mine, ie we either capitulate or go nuclear. Clearly 2 days wasn’t going to work. I feel Balpa had BA on the back foot. They didn’t expect the solidarity and couldn’t afford a 2 week strike. Alex Cruz had been put under pressure by Willie Walsh to get a deal done. He couldn’t expect to keep his job if we had embarked on a 2 week or indefinite strike. The ball was very much in Balpa’s court! Most members I think would have been happy with a cast iron guarantee to protect what agreements we still have and a fudging of the profit share or a higher extra pay rise instead of a profit share. There was no desire to go extreme and demand 15% payruse etc etc.
And then Balpa stalled before eventually caving in. I’ve just done SEP and the general feeling amongst the 15 or so colleagues was we’ve been let down by Balpa. Some are voting against the deal but others are battle weary. After initially being impressed by Balpa I’m disappointed with what they’ve achieved and I won’t be rejoining.
So I have been watching this strike from the side lines. Clearly there were a number of colleagues disgruntled with the BACC hence the election results giving them a new leadership.Initially I was impressed by the strong stance and threat of strike and very impressed that they chose to avoid August as Sept was still costly but avoided tv footage of families losing their holidays. I was also equally very impressed at the solidarity shown by those unfortunate enough to be in the firing line when the day came.
We all expected BA to be tough. We expected the staff travel embargo but not how 2 days strike would cost about a weeks wages! And talking to my colleagues since the strike then the general view has been the similar to mine, ie we either capitulate or go nuclear. Clearly 2 days wasn’t going to work. I feel Balpa had BA on the back foot. They didn’t expect the solidarity and couldn’t afford a 2 week strike. Alex Cruz had been put under pressure by Willie Walsh to get a deal done. He couldn’t expect to keep his job if we had embarked on a 2 week or indefinite strike. The ball was very much in Balpa’s court! Most members I think would have been happy with a cast iron guarantee to protect what agreements we still have and a fudging of the profit share or a higher extra pay rise instead of a profit share. There was no desire to go extreme and demand 15% payruse etc etc.
And then Balpa stalled before eventually caving in. I’ve just done SEP and the general feeling amongst the 15 or so colleagues was we’ve been let down by Balpa. Some are voting against the deal but others are battle weary. After initially being impressed by Balpa I’m disappointed with what they’ve achieved and I won’t be rejoining.
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All done and dusted? Or do the pilots now vote on it?
Insider thoughts?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...ikes-shj5nr98w
Insider thoughts?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...ikes-shj5nr98w
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All done and dusted? Or do the pilots now vote on it?
Insider thoughts?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...ikes-shj5nr98w
Insider thoughts?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...ikes-shj5nr98w
Pilot ballot closed yesterday lunch time. Results were out early afternoon which showed an overwhelming acceptance of the offer. I'd hasten to add that this may not be overwhelming approval of the offer, simply recognition that its run its course and this all needs to go away now.
In the mean time, lets see how long the relationship rebuild missives last.
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What changed with the offer to take it from a strong vote to strike, to a strong vote to accept the new deal? I did not understand striking in the first place, but now I am really confused as to why it happened.
The vast majority of pilots in BA are in BALPA, so “the pilots” have voted on it; as it says in the article
I think it is “done and dusted” in terms of IA for the foreseeable future....
Members of the British Airline Pilots’ Association (Balpa) voted almost nine to one in favour of the package, it was announced yesterday
1. In many peoples minds the original ballot was about much more than a pay deal - thinks rostering, hotel standards, and the whole raft of other stuff you hear grumbles about on the line every working day.
2. The two days of IA might have got a bit of movement from the company (I remain to be convinced) but it also allowed IAG/BA to demonstrate what sanctions is was prepared to use against the strikers and also against the Union.
3. After that it seemed to me the reps had gone as far as they felt they could in the subsequent negotiations through ACAS....
4. It was fairly clear to me that if the majority of membership had voted “no” in the recent (second) ballot most of the BACC would have resigned and it would have left BALPA weakened..
5. IMHO The result of the second ballot is more of a reflection of the membership’s desire to keep BALPA functioning and provide some protection for T&Cs, rather than people having a change in heart over the company’s meager pay offer and suddenly thinking it’s a great deal.
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That’s how I feel. I totally supported the strike to be fair, but now we’ve just accepted the same deal because BALPA spun it like a good thing. Offer is almost exactly the same, didn’t expect this ratio in yes to no either since everyone I spoke to said they’d vote no. But we have to go with the majority and move on from here I guess.
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Way I see it:
1. In many peoples minds the original ballot was about much more than a pay deal - thinks rostering, hotel standards, and the whole raft of other stuff you hear grumbles about on the line every working day.
2. The two days of IA might have got a bit of movement from the company (I remain to be convinced) but it also allowed IAG/BA to demonstrate what sanctions is was prepared to use against the strikers and also against the Union.
3. After that it seemed to me the reps had gone as far as they felt they could in the subsequent negotiations through ACAS....
4. It was fairly clear to me that if the majority of membership had voted “no” in the recent (second) ballot most of the BACC would have resigned and it would have left BALPA weakened..
5. IMHO The result of the second ballot is more of a reflection of the membership’s desire to keep BALPA functioning and provide some protection for T&Cs, rather than people having a change in heart over the company’s meager pay offer and suddenly thinking it’s a great deal.
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Thank you for the inside analysis but just one question... Why would any BA pilot at this stage care if BALPA was weakened further through resignations? They have proved themselves to be beyond weak by folding to the company during the initial IA and as such why would anyone expect them to be able to protect T&C in the future? I'm glad the pilots are getting their payrise but if you look around you would have gotten 11% over three years with market forces alone forcing BA's hand.
IMVHO people feel that if BA had absolutely completely unfettered and unmoderated by a Union access to T&Cs they would really really be up the creek without the proverbial paddle.
There is therefore a feeling that despite everything letting the BACC fall apart is not in the membership’s best interest,
We will see.
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Thank you for the inside analysis but just one question... Why would any BA pilot at this stage care if BALPA was weakened further through resignations? They have proved themselves to be beyond weak by folding to the company during the initial IA and as such why would anyone expect them to be able to protect T&C in the future? I'm glad the pilots are getting their payrise but if you look around you would have gotten 11% over three years with market forces alone forcing BA's hand.
All the evidence suggests that a strong unionised workforce does better in pay deals than a workforce with no representation.
It might not feel like a win because the strike itself didn’t move the offer substantially, but we’re a long way from where the negotiations started.
"but if you look around you would have gotten 11% over three years with market forces alone forcing BA's hand."
Market forces have done for Thomas Cook, Monarch and a bundle of other airlines in Europe recently - a lot of pilots will be looking at security of employment rather than headline pay raises
Market forces have done for Thomas Cook, Monarch and a bundle of other airlines in Europe recently - a lot of pilots will be looking at security of employment rather than headline pay raises
