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BA pilots vote to strike

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BA pilots vote to strike

Old 20th Nov 2019, 09:48
  #501 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy
I'm not sure many people could have reasonably foreseen the sort of responses whose legitimacy might yet end up being tested in court but other punishments such as loss of staff travel were a "given".

That said, I very very much agree with the thrust of your post..
A fair summation.

There are two sides out there and only one playing cricket.
Paraphrasing Australian songwriter and orator , Paul Kelly.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 00:04
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Is that it? The same offer is now accepted?

BALPA to recommend acceptance.............

https://www.theguardian.com/business...pay-settlement

95% voted in favour of action, 2 days of strike.
Striking pilots lose Staff Travel privileges.
No increase in pay offered.
No Profit Share.

........and BALPA think this merits acceptance?




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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 04:50
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Originally Posted by Maxfli
BALPA to recommend acceptance.............

https://www.theguardian.com/business...pay-settlement

95% voted in favour of action, 2 days of strike.
Striking pilots lose Staff Travel privileges.
No increase in pay offered.
No Profit Share.

........and BALPA think this merits acceptance?
This stinks of corruption. BA pilots have been well and truly thrown under the bus here. What a disgrace.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 06:00
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I think we need to wait and see the full details and maybe find out (if we ever do) what was being threatened if the pilots had walked out again but initially it's disappointing to say the least.

BA BALPA is going to lose members, that's for sure, and listening to some conversations/reading some thoughts last night it could well cost BA some pilots - certainly some of the younger cohort are talking about commands, command pay, and whether a career at BA makes economic sense anymore (if it ever did for them)

Elsewhere (?DEP thread) I mentioned the possibility of this dispute ending badly for the Union. If asked today then using a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is complete destruction of the Union, 5 is neutral, and 10 is the Union winning hands down ATM I'm finding it difficult to give BALPA more than 3 out of 10 ...

BTW having gone through the last BACC bulletin I'm struggling to find anything that ties in with the Guardian claim that:

The deal also offers improvements to working conditions, including rosters.
Anyone clue me in on that, because I can't see any mention of improvement in official comms?

Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Nov 2019 at 06:27.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 15:26
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You’re being generous wiggy. This is complete capitulation. The union spinning of the proposed disruption agreement is shameful. Having handed over the Crown Jewels without a whimper, they will now come for the last few remaining trimmings. All west coast will be 3 day trips. Next will be working to easa crewing limits. 2 crew YVR, SEA etc.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 15:55
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Maybe at last a time for all UK pilots to migrate to a different Union, either an existing one or a new one. Not only at BA has balpa been a complete and utter abject failure.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 16:47
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Elsewhere (?DEP thread) I mentioned the possibility of this dispute ending badly for the Union. If asked today then using a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is complete destruction of the Union, 5 is neutral, and 10 is the Union winning hands down ATM I'm finding it difficult to give BALPA more than 3 out of 10 ...
BALPA is us!

The Union was under serious existential threat from the moment an inexperienced militant bunch of reps were installed by a proportion of the membership who believed, if only the table had been banged harder in previous negotiations we would be in a much better place now. With the associated false narrative that newer members had somehow been sold down the river by a previous ‘compliant’ BACC!! So here we now are! A union on the brink of extinction.

Congratulations!

It’s now pretty obvious the previous bunch deserve more respect for their experience and their ‘craft’?

From September 2018 the resultant disappointment was depressingly inevitable. Either the membership would get a strike... and be disappointed. Or they wouldn’t get a strike... and be disappointed. It is important to realise, the error here wasn’t a mishandled strike. It was the mistaken beliefs that led to striking in the first place.

Some thought the threat of more militancy would deliver a better pay deal.... It didn’t
Some thought the threat of balloting would deliver a better pay deal. .... It didn’t
Some thought balloting would deliver a better pay deal. .... It didn’t
Some thought a powerful result would make BA blink. .... It didn’t
Some thought announcing dates would have BA quaking in their boots. .... It didn’t
Some thought mounting a ‘successful’ strike would bring BA to it’s knees. .....It didn’t
Some STILL think only more strike action will deliver a better pay deal!!
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 17:02
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yeah the previous BACC did an amazing job.

They gave everything away without a fight....
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 17:20
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I don't have a dog in this fight other than the hope BA keep their conditions as good as possible for theirs and everyone's sake. Ryanair CC bottled their opportunity in 2018 through poor cross border coordination and now in 2019 look what is happening there... BA CC have had their chance in 2019 and as expected look to have bottled it also. BA know that Balpa are not brave enough to really hurt the company and strike for a week and as such have no reason to give Any ground, not now, not ever. You can try again in 5 years, just hope they haven't destroyed the place before then. As for Balpa.. Is anyone surprised?
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 17:31
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Is it the unions or the fact that most third world countries have better labour laws (better employee protection) then the United Kingdom.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 20:19
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Originally Posted by Jumbo2
Is it the unions or the fact that most third world countries have better labour laws (better employee protection) then the United Kingdom.
That’s got a lot to do with it, as Rated De mentioned upthread -

“The asymmetry advantage enjoyed by the employer is not by accident.”..

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Old 24th Nov 2019, 10:18
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The RMT have recently announced twenty seven days of IA over Christmas under the same labour laws as us. The railway unions regularly shut london down inconveniencing millions of commuters till they get their employers to come to the table.
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Old 24th Nov 2019, 11:54
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This bewildering capitulation just cannot be understated. I can only imagine the reps have been offered large brown envelopes under the table if this goes through.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 02:52
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Originally Posted by Xulu
This bewildering capitulation just cannot be understated. I can only imagine the reps have been offered large brown envelopes under the table if this goes through.
I have read some rubbish on Pprune but this takes the biscuit!
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 08:29
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Originally Posted by Xulu
This bewildering capitulation just cannot be understated. I can only imagine the reps have been offered large brown envelopes under the table if this goes through.
I know feelings are running high but even so....don't forget many of the senior reps volunteered to put themselves in the firing line on the two days of actual IA, and along with many other BALPA members are living with the sanctions, and have had their time available to concentrate on Union activities curtailed by the company.....so all in all I'm still willing to cut them some slack.

I think the big big stuff up was the initial tactics plus I suspect many of the reps and some of the members didn't really predicte the "ferocity" of the company's response....A two day block of IA was never going to cut it..after all BA has had plenty of practice at dealing with two day of disruption so all it really did was give the company an opportunity to demonstrate it's will and then the pilots had time to stew over the possible consequences before any further further call to arms.

More than 12 weeks into the dispute period heaven knows what else the company has "offered" the reps if there is a return to IA under the existing mandate but I can guess it won't be money in brown envelopes...
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 10:05
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There is only ever one way to win IA in this modern age, stated in this thread several times and successfully demonstrated by RMT over and over again; the nuclear option that forced BA shareholders to step in.

Unfortunately, BALPA didn't have the balls to pull it off. They pretended to... but nope, nothing there. Some actually defended calling off the 3rd day of strike as a stroke of genius - but as most suspected, it was in fact capitulation. Couldn't even follow through with that.

So now, be prepared for the comeback. The shareholders are demanding a lesson you won't forget, and who's going to stop them?
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 10:53
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Originally Posted by Xulu
The shareholders are demanding a lesson you won't forget
Source for that claim?

IMHO if you look at the details of the proposed settlement most shareholders won't be too upset with how this looks like ending up (subject to acceptance).

Last edited by wiggy; 25th Nov 2019 at 11:58.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 13:07
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Apples & Oranges

Originally Posted by Capewell
The RMT have recently announced twenty seven days of IA over Christmas under the same labour laws as us. The railway unions regularly shut london down inconveniencing millions of commuters till they get their employers to come to the table.
The rail workers do not need Staff Travel to get to work, many pilots do and this necessity has been fully exploited in this dispute.
The strike, instead of creating greater unity has unfortunately only engendered division.
The net result, regrettably, despite the efforts of BACC / BALPA, is that many will add 1% to the 11.5% in this proposal.
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Old 25th Nov 2019, 13:27
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Originally Posted by Maxfli
The rail workers do not need Staff Travel to get to work, many pilots do and this necessity has been fully exploited in this dispute.
The strike, instead of creating greater unity has unfortunately only engendered division.
The net result, regrettably, despite the efforts of BACC / BALPA, is that many will add 1% to the 11.5% in this proposal.
It is not a necessity though is it..... How you get to work is none of BA's concern the fact that chose to use staff travel is no different to my choice of car to travel to LHR - none of the Companies business
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 07:01
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I have no idea what direct feedback the reps got during after the initial IA so the following is just my guess:

I don't think the shock of losing Staff Travel is/was the reason for halting IA after just two days...or at least it really shouldn't have been, given the warnings and what BA have done in the past. Also many seasoned staff travellers over time have come up with options for a work around (e.g; LoCo, drive, train) though I do accept a few are very exposed.

I think the much bigger issue for many might have been the imaginative way "strike day" rosters were constructed and then how pay was docked for trips that didn't get flown.

As for parallels with the rail dispute..same basic industrial relations environment, yes, but different trainset when it comes to management attitude and customer options.
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