BA pilots vote to strike
The perception at the moment amongst the crews is BALPA has only been offered the same Settlement as pre strike, with a couple of tweaks of change.
The pilots rostered over the strike days are being hung out to dry, leaving them a considerable financial loss and removal of ST for two years.
If true, seems a poor result after the almost 100% support shown by the crews for BALPA action against Management.
The pilots rostered over the strike days are being hung out to dry, leaving them a considerable financial loss and removal of ST for two years.
If true, seems a poor result after the almost 100% support shown by the crews for BALPA action against Management.
Last edited by cessnapete; 4th Nov 2019 at 16:05.
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Surely the union knows it cannot possibly accept a deal whereby those who went on strike are left out to dry? And surely they know the membership won’t accept that? Worrying, if they don’t...
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Wait for what? The momentum that we had is lost and BALPA has shown its hand to BA. It’s clear the BACC doesn’t want to strike anymore and even if we vote this deal down, by the time we get a vote, the vote comes out and BALPA presents it, our mandate will have probably ran out. It’s clear that strikers are being thrown under the bus, just to get the exact same deal we already turned down! With the only change that we have now also lost our staff travel for a year. Good going.
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Looks like you have given up already. Sometimes you have to be in it for the longhaul. Maybe the strike has not had the success we hoped. However you are still the day to day manager of the operation. BA needs pilots onside for the daily operation to work. All is not lost.
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Balpa has given up, not us. I have taken action but now because of their weakness, I’m left to choose between accepting a **** paydeal, having essentially gone on strike for nothing, but atleast getting staff travel back in a year. Or voting it down, risking that BA takes the entire deal of the table, and gaining absolutely nothing, but losing one of the main perks of working at BA for 3 years. I don’t really see any longterm advantages here.
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Please allow me to offer an alternative possibility to BA pilots?
In another place, someone said about the previous USSR, “they used to pretend to pay us, and we used to pretend to work.”
What an interesting concept?
If you catch my drift?
CEOs don’t fly customers!
In another place, someone said about the previous USSR, “they used to pretend to pay us, and we used to pretend to work.”
What an interesting concept?
If you catch my drift?
CEOs don’t fly customers!
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Let’s look where we came from. 1 year pay deal 2.3% and nothing else. We now have what I would say is a fair pay offer. I do not know of anyone else getting a deal like ours. 8.5% (including the sign on bonus) increase in January with 4% of that back dated to January 19. Add your incremental pay to that in the year and it’s roughly 10%!!!
The other elements have seen improvement too. Ok not industry leading but still a improvement. Flight pay plus 10%, TAFB, pension etc etc. Duty rig improvement, RPI protection of some sort at least.
I do not see continuing strikes achieving anything. The issues we face and complain about are not pay, let’s accept the pay deal and then open up discussions separately regarding the real issues that matter. Rostering, fatigue, pilot establishment, report times after leave for example.
Hopefully those who took action get their staff travel back but hands up we all knew what we were doing when, if we decided to take action. The one thing I really do think needs to be sorted is the level of deductions levelled at those who took action.
Who knows, if the election goes the wrong way we may need this extra money just to pay more tax........there are bigger problems out there than a 8.5% pay rise.
The other elements have seen improvement too. Ok not industry leading but still a improvement. Flight pay plus 10%, TAFB, pension etc etc. Duty rig improvement, RPI protection of some sort at least.
I do not see continuing strikes achieving anything. The issues we face and complain about are not pay, let’s accept the pay deal and then open up discussions separately regarding the real issues that matter. Rostering, fatigue, pilot establishment, report times after leave for example.
Hopefully those who took action get their staff travel back but hands up we all knew what we were doing when, if we decided to take action. The one thing I really do think needs to be sorted is the level of deductions levelled at those who took action.
Who knows, if the election goes the wrong way we may need this extra money just to pay more tax........there are bigger problems out there than a 8.5% pay rise.
As far as your idea of putting pay to one side and now opening discussions about all the other gripes (and I’d agree with everything on your list)...if this current dispute does come unravelled over the next few days we need to ask ourselves exactly what leverage are BALPA going to be left with hold the line on all other aspects of T&Cs?
For example if BA now turns around and says, actually, no we won’t enter into debate about rostering, it’s legal so JSS stays as it is, quite what credible weapons have BALPA now got left in the arsenal?
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I do not see continuing strikes achieving anything. The issues we face and complain about are not pay, let’s accept the pay deal and then open up discussions separately regarding the real issues that matter. Rostering, fatigue, pilot establishment, report times after leave for example.
Hopefully those who took action get their staff travel back but hands up we all knew what we were doing when, if we decided to take action.
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I got to 8.5 with 4% year 1, 3.5% year 2 and the 1% sign on bonus....ok that’s a one off, just realised that. 8.5% in jan still stands with 7.5% increase on the basic.
I don’t think anyone has been hung out to dry. We knew we would loose staff travel, we knew we would loose pay. The amount lost I agree needs to be fought. I assumed it would be a days pay at the daily rate for the month.
I don’t think a strike again will work. Every FO says they can’t afford to strike again with how much they lost.
Hopefully nobody is hung out to dry.
I don’t think anyone has been hung out to dry. We knew we would loose staff travel, we knew we would loose pay. The amount lost I agree needs to be fought. I assumed it would be a days pay at the daily rate for the month.
I don’t think a strike again will work. Every FO says they can’t afford to strike again with how much they lost.
Hopefully nobody is hung out to dry.
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I got to 8.5 with 4% year 1, 3.5% year 2 and the 1% sign on bonus....ok that’s a one off, just realised that. 8.5% in jan still stands with 7.5% increase on the basic.
I don’t think anyone has been hung out to dry. We knew we would loose staff travel, we knew we would loose pay. The amount lost I agree needs to be fought. I assumed it would be a days pay at the daily rate for the month.
I don’t think a strike again will work. Every FO says they can’t afford to strike again with how much they lost.
Hopefully nobody is hung out to dry.
I don’t think anyone has been hung out to dry. We knew we would loose staff travel, we knew we would loose pay. The amount lost I agree needs to be fought. I assumed it would be a days pay at the daily rate for the month.
I don’t think a strike again will work. Every FO says they can’t afford to strike again with how much they lost.
Hopefully nobody is hung out to dry.
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Wait for what? The momentum that we had is lost and BALPA has shown its hand to BA. It’s clear the BACC doesn’t want to strike anymore and even if we vote this deal down, by the time we get a vote, the vote comes out and BALPA presents it, our mandate will have probably ran out. It’s clear that strikers are being thrown under the bus, just to get the exact same deal we already turned down! With the only change that we have now also lost our staff travel for a year. Good going.
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Union’s modus operandi has been:
1. Union shows strong opposition to change, but after initially seeming to present strong opposition ultimately recommends changes only half as bad as they were going to be and claims a victory. (Airline management 101)
2. Union allows, even promotes a strike to show how strong they are (but only when they sense that pilots may believe that the union credibility has been brought into question) but then let ACAS intervene to provide what is ultimately recommended as binding arbitration.
Either way Airline wins.
I’m sorry but I’m a cynical old git but I’ve seen all of this before. At my airline pilots set up a credible alternative (with approaching 75% of the pilot membership) but the management have spent years putting obstacles in the way to avoid ever having to deal with it. Makes you wonder why.
Ladies and gentlemen you have been truly thrown under a bus and unfortunately it does not surprise me in the least.
My vague hope is that a majority of the Rottweilers have turned.
Excuse my being vague, but litigation is a real threat.
1. Union shows strong opposition to change, but after initially seeming to present strong opposition ultimately recommends changes only half as bad as they were going to be and claims a victory. (Airline management 101)
2. Union allows, even promotes a strike to show how strong they are (but only when they sense that pilots may believe that the union credibility has been brought into question) but then let ACAS intervene to provide what is ultimately recommended as binding arbitration.
Either way Airline wins.
I’m sorry but I’m a cynical old git but I’ve seen all of this before. At my airline pilots set up a credible alternative (with approaching 75% of the pilot membership) but the management have spent years putting obstacles in the way to avoid ever having to deal with it. Makes you wonder why.
Ladies and gentlemen you have been truly thrown under a bus and unfortunately it does not surprise me in the least.
My vague hope is that a majority of the Rottweilers have turned.
Excuse my being vague, but litigation is a real threat.
The only way the pilots can win this (and it isn’t really a battle, just a way of forcing a decent amount of money out of the employer), is to do a SW trains and shut the airline down for a month. Call it 4 weeks unpaid leave, or a firebreak. I think many people would fancy December off. It is pointless doing a few days here or there. Close it down for a month and enjoy being at home. It may make you realise what an unhealthy lifestyle this is when you get 30 nights sleep in your own bed with home cooked food and a chance to spend quality time with loved ones and friends, rather than the faux life we spend at work. What have we got to lose?
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The only way the pilots can win this (and it isn’t really a battle, just a way of forcing a decent amount of money out of the employer), is to do a SW trains and shut the airline down for a month. Call it 4 weeks unpaid leave, or a firebreak. I think many people would fancy December off. It is pointless doing a few days here or there. Close it down for a month and enjoy being at home. It may make you realise what an unhealthy lifestyle this is when you get 30 nights sleep in your own bed with home cooked food and a chance to spend quality time with loved ones and friends, rather than the faux life we spend at work. What have we got to lose?
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The asymmetry advantage enjoyed by the employer is not by accident.
Western economies have gradually eroded any semblance of a "new deal" and the industrial climate ensures outcomes that the corporate political donors are happy with.
As a result real wages have fallen in most industries and where resistance was encountered globalisaiton allowed outsourcing of entire industry from cars to all sorts of manufacturing.
To maintain living standards one either chose their parents well or increased the debt levels.
That most of the western economies have the personal debt levels they do is the result.
Withdrawing labour against an adversary with deep pockets is a tricky strategy.
Watching this unfold it is a surprise that BALPA had not correctly anticipated the corporate response.
Western economies have gradually eroded any semblance of a "new deal" and the industrial climate ensures outcomes that the corporate political donors are happy with.
As a result real wages have fallen in most industries and where resistance was encountered globalisaiton allowed outsourcing of entire industry from cars to all sorts of manufacturing.
To maintain living standards one either chose their parents well or increased the debt levels.
That most of the western economies have the personal debt levels they do is the result.
Withdrawing labour against an adversary with deep pockets is a tricky strategy.
Watching this unfold it is a surprise that BALPA had not correctly anticipated the corporate response.
That said, I very very much agree with the thrust of your post..
Last edited by wiggy; 17th Nov 2019 at 13:23.