BA pilots vote to strike

[FlightDetent]

Originally Posted by RetiredBA/BY

... to crush BALPA, . whose members have been pivotal in helping BA generate records profits of 2 b at a time when other airlines are failing.

This is a valuable exercise while still on the training grounds. Get ready to:

Explain how yourselves contributed to the massive financial success by working beyond what the job normally involves or above the standards of other large airlines' pilots.

Me - FD - does not need to know. Just a suggestion that the answer better be neat and convincing once it is demanded, unlike the eyewatering fiasco in the pages herabove after the "overpaid busdrivers" comment.

[Doiknow]

Originally Posted by VinRouge

not entirely sure 0.94*4400 pilots will be that easy to find.

They won't need to find 94% of 4400. I suspect they'll start with 100% of BA Gatwick.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

I suspect they'll start with 1005 of BA Gatwick.

Eh?

A) nowhere near that number at Gatwick.

B) they have, would and always will prioritise premium long haul routes.

[RetiredBA/BY]

Not sure what you guys are on. Have any of you ever run a business ?

When things are going well, very well indeed, why the hell risk damaging it to try and get yet more.

A totally pointless exercise.

.....and for flight detents info. its a long time since I was a BA pilot BUT I understand the issues, and certainly ready to explain the issues to those who have not yet cottoned on !

[Phantom4]

Class Clown Cruz has told The Training Department to reduce the simulator footprint
Klaus addressed Standards Training Captains meeting and told them they were placing too much emphasis on safety.
These are worrying statements

[shamrock_f22]

Originally Posted by Phantom4

Class Clown Cruz has told The Training Department to reduce the simulator footprint
Klaus addressed Standards Training Captains meeting and told them they were placing too much emphasis on safety.
These are worrying statements

Funny you mention that, I was reading an article the other day about the 737 MAX incidents and the training standards at the airlines which contributed to it. All I could think was this sounds worryingly like what the current BA pilots say their culture is becoming.

I sincerely hope safety always remains paramount at BA for everyone's sake.

[hunterboy]

Part of the problem in BA has been the historic emphasis on top down training instead of bottom up. Only in the last few years have efforts been made to invert the training pyramid. Sadly, that comes as a cost. Personally, I would put more emphasis and money into training the guys and girls who will be flying the customers around daily than sending managers/tri/tre’s on even more courses.

[Ron Swanson]

Originally Posted by RetiredBA/BY

Can someone tell me why, in gods name, Walsh and Cruz would want to crush BALPA, . whose members have been pivotal in helping BA generate records profits of 2 b at a time when other airlines are failing.

Just what do they wish to achieve, to me, if it is the case, it seems a really crass pursuit ?

After crushing BALPA in the open skies debacle WW had 10 years of trashing TnCs and a compliant union to herd through the changes. It's an established, effective and proven strategy.

[wiggy]

TBF I'm not sure I'd describe the open skies stuff up as BALPA being "crushed" as a result of the OS dispute but it was a shot across the bows and it did appear from some subsequent goings on that perhaps one or two Reps became a bit "gun shy"....subsequently, slowly, "stuff" was negotiated away and/or was slowly being eroded (e.g. the roster bidding system) as a result of a pragmatic, non-confrontational approach and all that entails .

I think what is going on now is the inevitable next step.

[77]

???

All quiet at the moment. I do hope that BA has at long last put on it's sensible hat. Or am I just too stupid to think that commonsense will prevail??

[hunterboy]

From what I understand there have been no further talks. I believe the union said they would issue comms sometime this week....

[cessnapete]

Originally Posted by hunterboy

From what I understand there have been no further talks. I believe the union said they would issue comms sometime this week....

Quite a pertinent article in the October consumer magazine Which?

“What has happened to British Airways?”
“Under Cruz our former national airline is now just an expensive Ryanair.”

[sudden twang]

Originally Posted by hunterboy

Part of the problem in BA has been the historic emphasis on top down training instead of bottom up. Only in the last few years have efforts been made to invert the training pyramid. Sadly, that comes as a cost. Personally, I would put more emphasis and money into training the guys and girls who will be flying the customers around daily than sending managers/tri/tre’s on even more courses.

Forgive me but what is top down/ bottom up training?

[77]

Originally Posted by sudden twang

Forgive me but what is top down/ bottom up training?

From what he said I assume he means money wasted on managers etc going on courses, when the money could be better invested at the bottom training pilots to fly the aeroplanes.

[Lordflasheart]

it never rains but it pours ....

...

Forgive me but what is top down/ bottom up training?

And there was silly old me thinking he meant 'learning how to perform the OEM' .... for when the ICO fines them £180m and Mr Justice Warby permits 500,000 data hack victims to launch a class compo case and allows them 15 months to join the litigation group as well. PPI anyone ?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/g...-a4254696.html

LFH ...
,,,

[MaverickPrime]

Between strikes and fines that £2 billion profit will be disappearing very quickly, then it’s bye bye Mr Cruz!

[arem]

Hopefully!!!

[77]

Nothing changes

Unfortunately the British public want a first class service at low cost price. I remember being addressed at a conference by an American pilot rep soon after Southwest became first low cost carrier. He said in Europe you promise pax heaven. Fall slightly below that standard and they complain. In the states we promise them ****, give them **** and everybody is happy.
Where do we go now?? Outsourcing of IT hasn't worked for BA. How to keep costs down and have a decent product. BA management path seems to be attack the workforce. Not a good route in a service industry.

[shamrock_f22]

Originally Posted by 77

Unfortunately the British public want a first class service at low cost price. I remember being addressed at a conference by an American pilot rep soon after Southwest became first low cost carrier. He said in Europe you promise pax heaven. Fall slightly below that standard and they complain. In the states we promise them ****, give them **** and everybody is happy.
Where do we go now?? Outsourcing of IT hasn't worked for BA. How to keep costs down and have a decent product. BA management path seems to be attack the workforce. Not a good route in a service industry.

Whilst I agree that low cost carriers have shifted passengers perspective of what's low cost and affordable, I don't think all of BA's paying population want both first class service and low cost. I know lots of people who were loyal to the brand and happily paid extra for tickets for many years.
What BA did was slowly erode the standard of their service causing these passengers to question value for money for what was slowly becoming a low cost carrier service. You can't do that if you're offering First and Biz worldwide and expect pax to keep schtum.
BA also needed to accept that if it wanted to remain a premium carrier then it couldn't have 100% seat fulfilment and fly every aircraft at capacity with the routes it has at the prices it charges.
Where we seem to have ended up is somewhere in the middle. A brand which is still broadly speaking perceived as premium, staffed by crew used to giving top service, run as a low cost carrier, treating its customers with contempt like a certain low cost carrier but marketed as a premium carrier. Inevitably, its going to lead to the downfall of BA unless something radically changes.

[77]

Shamrock_f22

I think what you say is absolutely correct. Unfortunately for BA they need a management that can find an autoroute out of this mess. At the moment the management seem to stuck in a traffic jam in a street with no exit. It needs radical charnge of direction by the management to get customer confidence and the staff back on side.