EK versus BA
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Dubai
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Whether or not you choose EK over BA really all depends on what you want and your own personal circumstances.
If you want the opportunity to eventually work part-time, go for BA, EK doesn't offer this, and there seems to be no desire from EK's side to make any lifestyle enhancements. Having said that, wether or not the rosters are awful depends a lot on your position within the company. At the moment the 777 guys are suffering with many more turn arounds than the A380 fleet, however, this will change with the arrival of the A330's next year.
As for pay, it's expensive to establish yourself in Dubai, upon joining you'll face a lot of costs at once, however the earnings potential is very good. I am mid 30's, LHS for a few years now and receive the accommodation allowance. This means every month I get 14K Euro's, excluding flight pay and other allowances, which then drives the total compensation up to 16-17K. Make of that what you will, but for somebody mid 30's thats an extremely good salary. On top of this there is close to 2K USD going in to the provident fund every month, mine when I leave.
Obviously Dubai is expensive, very expensive for certain things, but if you shop smart on layovers you can certainly cut down on your grocery bills etc. So far I've managed to acquire several properties in my home country with only a small mortgage, meaning that if I really wanted to, I could retire already and I certainly won't have to work till 65. If I re-invest my rental income I can buy another property every 5-6 years or so.
Having little control over your schedule can at times be annoying, however EK offer plenty of career choices, if you decide to take up on of the opportunities offered within the company you can greatly enhance your lifestyle. Plenty of people have taken that opportunity, and now enjoy decent rosters compared to some people who only fly the line, if you put in the work you can expect the results. The race to the bottom seems to be in full gear, and with Terms & Conditions under threat within IAG, schedules becoming tight, and hotels also moving to the location EK seems to prefer, how much different will it be in the long run?
Do I miss a union, transparency and sometimes simply honesty from EK? Yes, I think most of us do. But we knew what we signed up for, and to be quite honest, when I was a BALPA member I was simply shocked by their ineffectiveness, lot's of talking, very very little action. I know the individual rep's put in a lot of work, however if the judicial system restricts the union from having any real teeth, it becomes a waste of time as well.
Would I join EK when I had a stable job in Europe with a family when I was in my mid 30's, probably not, knowing what I know now. Having said that, plenty of guys have done it, and plenty are still happy. Would I join again in my mid 20's, with a chance of a widebody command, the package EK offer, and the chance to set myself up for life, yes I would.
People have vastly different views on EK, depending on their own personal situation. Nobody really calls Dubai home, and we are all working on an exit plan one way or another, and depending on how accustomed you become to life here, and your spending habits, it is fairly easy to put in 15 years, then re-asses the situation when you are late 30's or early 40's. It still leaves you with another 20 years of flying ahead, and if you can do that back in Europe, part-time, on a shared roster, or anything along those lines, without having to worry too much anymore about your pension etc, then maybe in terms of a career, the type of flying and life experience, it is more rewarding then spending 40 years in BA.
If you want the opportunity to eventually work part-time, go for BA, EK doesn't offer this, and there seems to be no desire from EK's side to make any lifestyle enhancements. Having said that, wether or not the rosters are awful depends a lot on your position within the company. At the moment the 777 guys are suffering with many more turn arounds than the A380 fleet, however, this will change with the arrival of the A330's next year.
As for pay, it's expensive to establish yourself in Dubai, upon joining you'll face a lot of costs at once, however the earnings potential is very good. I am mid 30's, LHS for a few years now and receive the accommodation allowance. This means every month I get 14K Euro's, excluding flight pay and other allowances, which then drives the total compensation up to 16-17K. Make of that what you will, but for somebody mid 30's thats an extremely good salary. On top of this there is close to 2K USD going in to the provident fund every month, mine when I leave.
Obviously Dubai is expensive, very expensive for certain things, but if you shop smart on layovers you can certainly cut down on your grocery bills etc. So far I've managed to acquire several properties in my home country with only a small mortgage, meaning that if I really wanted to, I could retire already and I certainly won't have to work till 65. If I re-invest my rental income I can buy another property every 5-6 years or so.
Having little control over your schedule can at times be annoying, however EK offer plenty of career choices, if you decide to take up on of the opportunities offered within the company you can greatly enhance your lifestyle. Plenty of people have taken that opportunity, and now enjoy decent rosters compared to some people who only fly the line, if you put in the work you can expect the results. The race to the bottom seems to be in full gear, and with Terms & Conditions under threat within IAG, schedules becoming tight, and hotels also moving to the location EK seems to prefer, how much different will it be in the long run?
Do I miss a union, transparency and sometimes simply honesty from EK? Yes, I think most of us do. But we knew what we signed up for, and to be quite honest, when I was a BALPA member I was simply shocked by their ineffectiveness, lot's of talking, very very little action. I know the individual rep's put in a lot of work, however if the judicial system restricts the union from having any real teeth, it becomes a waste of time as well.
Would I join EK when I had a stable job in Europe with a family when I was in my mid 30's, probably not, knowing what I know now. Having said that, plenty of guys have done it, and plenty are still happy. Would I join again in my mid 20's, with a chance of a widebody command, the package EK offer, and the chance to set myself up for life, yes I would.
People have vastly different views on EK, depending on their own personal situation. Nobody really calls Dubai home, and we are all working on an exit plan one way or another, and depending on how accustomed you become to life here, and your spending habits, it is fairly easy to put in 15 years, then re-asses the situation when you are late 30's or early 40's. It still leaves you with another 20 years of flying ahead, and if you can do that back in Europe, part-time, on a shared roster, or anything along those lines, without having to worry too much anymore about your pension etc, then maybe in terms of a career, the type of flying and life experience, it is more rewarding then spending 40 years in BA.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Norwich
Age: 61
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Good to see a balanced post Sasa. At the end of the day you do you research, make a decision and swim with it. Grass is always greener and in our profession we don’t have the flexibility to move companies every couple of years. Not everywhere suits everybody and once established it is hard to move. The profession & terms of conditions have changed markedly over the last few years and not for the better.
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Onboard
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Three things to consider, when comparing EK to BA.
1) BA have never bonded anyone for a type rating. So join BA, do a 777, 787, 380 rating. (even a 320 rating!) Then just take that rating elsewhere after 3 months, if you don’t like BA. Can you do that at EK?
2) BA pilots are about to go on strike, because they don’t think management are playing ‘fair’. What’s the ‘remedy’ at EK, should you as an individual, or you as a pilot group have a ‘disagreement’?
3) Full time LH anywhere, these days is on an ever steepening slide to being unsustainable. Part time working does at least offer an opportunity to ameliorate the effects on your life expectancy, whilst maintaining a work/life balance.
But if you think the more money in your pay packet, the happier your life, then just go and live in the desert, or China.
It ain’t rocket science!
1) BA have never bonded anyone for a type rating. So join BA, do a 777, 787, 380 rating. (even a 320 rating!) Then just take that rating elsewhere after 3 months, if you don’t like BA. Can you do that at EK?
2) BA pilots are about to go on strike, because they don’t think management are playing ‘fair’. What’s the ‘remedy’ at EK, should you as an individual, or you as a pilot group have a ‘disagreement’?
3) Full time LH anywhere, these days is on an ever steepening slide to being unsustainable. Part time working does at least offer an opportunity to ameliorate the effects on your life expectancy, whilst maintaining a work/life balance.
But if you think the more money in your pay packet, the happier your life, then just go and live in the desert, or China.
It ain’t rocket science!
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: .
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Interesting times have come around again at EK. Whilst I believe that Flt Ops management have been instrumental in convincing the higher level management to take a more mature approach to flight safety (i.e. a screw up out on line does not result in a final warning or dismissal) they have found a new avenue to stoke fear in the pilot contingent - the attendance monitoring, or competency, warning.
This comes, in an unpublished and unverifiable manner, by the way of 4 levels, a chat and then level 1 through 3. This is all related to sickness, or in EK computer speak, ‘attendance’.
If one has been off sick for a predetermined number of days (the rumour is 6) within the last 12 months, whether certified by an AME or not, then the process begins. They are currently handing these warnings out like sweeties. Examples such as: pre-approved time off for surgery by the company, resulting in a warning for absence 6 months later. Industrial injury whilst at work with associated time off, a warning some months later. With no exaggeration, 75% of the colleagues I have flown with, or talked to, the past month are somewhere on this scale. I understand that level 2 delays the command, and subsequent sickness whilst on level 3 (EVEN IF AME CERTIFIED!) results in dismissal.
The hypocrisy of approving time off for surgery and then following up with a warning letter for absence is breath taking. So much so, that one can only conclude that this is a missive from up high.
So whilst the merits and strength of BALPA can be debated as nauseum, the simple protection of rights in the workplace by virtue of legislation is something that just does not exist here.
This, IMHO, is the next latent threat and hole in the Helvetic Fromage that is institutional in working in this part of the world. The problem is, that the pay has not kept up with the mercenary ideals of those who have come here. Ergo, the cake has gone, as has the spoon.
At least the rosters have eased off a bit....
Be warned.
This comes, in an unpublished and unverifiable manner, by the way of 4 levels, a chat and then level 1 through 3. This is all related to sickness, or in EK computer speak, ‘attendance’.
If one has been off sick for a predetermined number of days (the rumour is 6) within the last 12 months, whether certified by an AME or not, then the process begins. They are currently handing these warnings out like sweeties. Examples such as: pre-approved time off for surgery by the company, resulting in a warning for absence 6 months later. Industrial injury whilst at work with associated time off, a warning some months later. With no exaggeration, 75% of the colleagues I have flown with, or talked to, the past month are somewhere on this scale. I understand that level 2 delays the command, and subsequent sickness whilst on level 3 (EVEN IF AME CERTIFIED!) results in dismissal.
The hypocrisy of approving time off for surgery and then following up with a warning letter for absence is breath taking. So much so, that one can only conclude that this is a missive from up high.
So whilst the merits and strength of BALPA can be debated as nauseum, the simple protection of rights in the workplace by virtue of legislation is something that just does not exist here.
This, IMHO, is the next latent threat and hole in the Helvetic Fromage that is institutional in working in this part of the world. The problem is, that the pay has not kept up with the mercenary ideals of those who have come here. Ergo, the cake has gone, as has the spoon.
At least the rosters have eased off a bit....
Be warned.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Up North….
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Interesting times have come around again at EK. Whilst I believe that Flt Ops management have been instrumental in convincing the higher level management to take a more mature approach to flight safety (i.e. a screw up out on line does not result in a final warning or dismissal) they have found a new avenue to stoke fear in the pilot contingent - the attendance monitoring, or competency, warning.
This comes, in an unpublished and unverifiable manner, by the way of 4 levels, a chat and then level 1 through 3. This is all related to sickness, or in EK computer speak, ‘attendance’.
If one has been off sick for a predetermined number of days (the rumour is 6) within the last 12 months, whether certified by an AME or not, then the process begins. They are currently handing these warnings out like sweeties. Examples such as: pre-approved time off for surgery by the company, resulting in a warning for absence 6 months later. Industrial injury whilst at work with associated time off, a warning some months later. With no exaggeration, 75% of the colleagues I have flown with, or talked to, the past month are somewhere on this scale. I understand that level 2 delays the command, and subsequent sickness whilst on level 3 (EVEN IF AME CERTIFIED!) results in dismissal.
The hypocrisy of approving time off for surgery and then following up with a warning letter for absence is breath taking. So much so, that one can only conclude that this is a missive from up high.
So whilst the merits and strength of BALPA can be debated as nauseum, the simple protection of rights in the workplace by virtue of legislation is something that just does not exist here.
This, IMHO, is the next latent threat and hole in the Helvetic Fromage that is institutional in working in this part of the world. The problem is, that the pay has not kept up with the mercenary ideals of those who have come here. Ergo, the cake has gone, as has the spoon.
At least the rosters have eased off a bit....
Be warned.
This comes, in an unpublished and unverifiable manner, by the way of 4 levels, a chat and then level 1 through 3. This is all related to sickness, or in EK computer speak, ‘attendance’.
If one has been off sick for a predetermined number of days (the rumour is 6) within the last 12 months, whether certified by an AME or not, then the process begins. They are currently handing these warnings out like sweeties. Examples such as: pre-approved time off for surgery by the company, resulting in a warning for absence 6 months later. Industrial injury whilst at work with associated time off, a warning some months later. With no exaggeration, 75% of the colleagues I have flown with, or talked to, the past month are somewhere on this scale. I understand that level 2 delays the command, and subsequent sickness whilst on level 3 (EVEN IF AME CERTIFIED!) results in dismissal.
The hypocrisy of approving time off for surgery and then following up with a warning letter for absence is breath taking. So much so, that one can only conclude that this is a missive from up high.
So whilst the merits and strength of BALPA can be debated as nauseum, the simple protection of rights in the workplace by virtue of legislation is something that just does not exist here.
This, IMHO, is the next latent threat and hole in the Helvetic Fromage that is institutional in working in this part of the world. The problem is, that the pay has not kept up with the mercenary ideals of those who have come here. Ergo, the cake has gone, as has the spoon.
At least the rosters have eased off a bit....
Be warned.
As for the rosters easing off........... I beg to differ !
