EK versus BA
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Attrition at BA which is not due to retirements will be negligible compared to EK. The numbers of those moving from EK to BA or at least trying to, will far outweigh any making the move in the reverse direction or those wanting to leave BA for elsewhere. Those that do leave BA to continue flying, will almost always do it for lifestyle reasons and BA trumps EK on lifestyle, irrespective of how upbeat you try and portray EK from a lifestyle perspective. The million dollar question is if this disparity will continue to exist in favour of BA pilots, in the years and decades ahead.
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Attrition at BA which is not due to retirements will be negligible compared to EK. The numbers of those moving from EK to BA or at least trying to, will far outweigh any making the move in the reverse direction or those wanting to leave BA for elsewhere. Those that do leave BA to continue flying, will almost always do it for lifestyle reasons and BA trumps EK on lifestyle, irrespective of how upbeat you try and portray EK from a lifestyle perspective. The million dollar question is if this disparity will continue to exist in favour of BA pilots, in the years and decades ahead.
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If you fancy money, prostitutes and do not care about living in a dictatorship you choose EK. If you are British and aspire any form of family life you choose BA. if you are a European, and you do not wish to live in a 2nd world class system you don’t go to either of them.
All jokes aside: do your 5 years in EK, get ur command, and then enjoy a far inferior package at RYR or Norwegian in a base you do not fancy or you just do the time in BA / Virgin / AF / KLM / Luftie / Ezy etc and go part time and enjoy life.
All jokes aside: do your 5 years in EK, get ur command, and then enjoy a far inferior package at RYR or Norwegian in a base you do not fancy or you just do the time in BA / Virgin / AF / KLM / Luftie / Ezy etc and go part time and enjoy life.
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If you fancy money, prostitutes and do not care about living in a dictatorship you choose EK. If you are British and aspire any form of family life you choose BA. if you are a European, and you do not wish to live in a 2nd world class system you don’t go to either of them.
All jokes aside: do your 5 years in EK, get ur command, and then enjoy a far inferior package at RYR or Norwegian in a base you do not fancy or you just do the time in BA / Virgin / AF / KLM / Luftie / Ezy etc and go part time and enjoy life.
All jokes aside: do your 5 years in EK, get ur command, and then enjoy a far inferior package at RYR or Norwegian in a base you do not fancy or you just do the time in BA / Virgin / AF / KLM / Luftie / Ezy etc and go part time and enjoy life.
Second one already is not really correct anymore - e.g. RYR new CLA deal in Italy for instance is really not bad IF it is a base you want and you DO NOT need to commute. Fine for me, I enjoy 5/4 and a not really bad salary(actually a better one that I had during my fantastic time with Qatar in the other dictatorship due to a very very bad Euro-Dollar exchange rate many years ago).
If you join one of the other gigs you mentioned as an experienced skipper AND you make it really into the mainline(seems BA went already a bit down the drain) then it means you go RH seat for at least 10 years again HOW could that be anything ok financially but as well "quality of life wise"?
EZY might be ok(maybe a bit to much "british company culture" for a mainland european, but hey. Problem with EZY is the very limited availability of good bases so you would not need to commute back and forth between work and family - HOW would that make you enjoy life?
Very onesided review of yours I must say. RYR has it's defintive downsides BUT the 5/4 on your base that you are living at with your family(preferably Italy as it is pretty good tax and salary wise on a RYR contract), THAT is QUALITY of life. Every day at home, NO commute, good salary.
To be honest it is much more likely to get a base you DO fancy in RYR then it would be in any other company you mentioned. Simple as that. There are all the known downsides in RYR(my god, I buy a black trouser and use the white shirts of my previous employers, big deal), I always prefer to be AT HOME with my family and not anymore in bloody hotels all around the world. Again - THAT is quality of life. Who cares which paintjob the bird has, honestly. Grow up.
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The few I know through mutual acquaintances that have left in recent years, generally seem to be on the 787 or 777 but that is perhaps not a surprise as they were on the 777 at EK. I can't comment for any 380 pilots who may have left EK.
I personally know one who is about to jump soon with another not far behind.
I personally know one who is about to jump soon with another not far behind.
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Tbh every airline is in a race to the bottom. Please someone tell me where the perfect airline is because I can tell you one thing it’s sure not our legacy carriers in the UK. If you join BA long haul your more then likely end up with 5 trips a month with just 2 days off between trips. Not really that different from EK, albeit on a lot less pay. Ok you could argue that after gaining some seniority you may be able to gain some control. But who knows? The question I ask myself is if I stay at BA and wait it out it will take me 18 years for a long haul command whose to say management wouldn’t have reduced terms and conditions even further, seems very plausible given their current record. BA management have taken away final salary pension and increased the pay scale timelines from 25 years to 35 years before you earn top salaries. Talk of moving to 24 hour layovers on routes where they can get away with it. What will they take from me in anther 10 years? Cathay used to be the airline of choice for many but now look at what management have done to that gig scale D has now been introduced as far as I’m aware hardly enough to live on in Hong Kong.
To those i would say earn the money whilst you can clear your debts and then look improving your quality of life. Flying 900 hours a year till your 65 Is not sustainable and unfortunately we are now the new generation of pilots who will be tasked to do this. Choose wisely and best of luck.
To those i would say earn the money whilst you can clear your debts and then look improving your quality of life. Flying 900 hours a year till your 65 Is not sustainable and unfortunately we are now the new generation of pilots who will be tasked to do this. Choose wisely and best of luck.
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On an EK roster how do you manage sleep? Is it doable or is it prolonged suffering? How often do people do controlled rest in the seat during midnight turnarounds?
Does anyone have figures for how much a person can expect to spend on food, going out and running a car in Dubai?
5 years into EK (assuming you haven’t got your command yet), what can you expect the salary to be? How much would your provident fund be worth at that time?
thanks!!!
Does anyone have figures for how much a person can expect to spend on food, going out and running a car in Dubai?
5 years into EK (assuming you haven’t got your command yet), what can you expect the salary to be? How much would your provident fund be worth at that time?
thanks!!!
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The Middle East is sustainable for a few years. Save some cash, tick a few boxes and get the t-shirts. Then find an opportunity and join a European airline that gets you close or where you want to be.
10 years and then some at EK on the 777, and I can gladly as well as happily say I escaped with both my health and sanity intact.
Whilst BA might not be the place it was 10 to 15 years ago, it is night and day vs EK.
Plenty have left EK and ended up at BA, mostly via RYR or Norwegian rather than directly.
Do yourself a big fat favour, and if you have the option, choose BA over EK.
Whilst BA might not be the place it was 10 to 15 years ago, it is night and day vs EK.
Plenty have left EK and ended up at BA, mostly via RYR or Norwegian rather than directly.
Do yourself a big fat favour, and if you have the option, choose BA over EK.
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It’s night and day now Monarch man but 24 LH layovers and all the trimmings set by other airlines like EK are on the agenda for management. It’s only a matter of time before they have us stopping in airport hotels too. Will you be so keen to sing the praises of BA then? Make no mistake the people running this airline are utterly contemptible. You can almost forgive the Arabs, they know no better. These people are from Western civilization and are corrupted, the worst embodiment of greedy capitalism there is.
Last edited by RexBanner; 29th Jun 2019 at 21:07.
Rex, first of all NEVER underestimate living in a land where the rule of law is applied equally and fairly for the vast majority, secondly last time I checked, organisations such as BALPA have offered a set of checks and balances to the megalomaniac tendencies of various management types.
BA isn’t perfect, but version 2019 still pi55es over EK for quality of life. If however you are a hard bruncher, you enjoy living in an unequal and unfair society where your fellow expat will happily throw you under the bus to further themselves financially with no recourse..check and balances or right of appeal, the EK is the place for you.
I won’t bother you with the other minor details with respect rostering, the theft of flight pay and overtime or the “flexible” approach to FTLs and operational policies.
BA isn’t perfect, but version 2019 still pi55es over EK for quality of life. If however you are a hard bruncher, you enjoy living in an unequal and unfair society where your fellow expat will happily throw you under the bus to further themselves financially with no recourse..check and balances or right of appeal, the EK is the place for you.
I won’t bother you with the other minor details with respect rostering, the theft of flight pay and overtime or the “flexible” approach to FTLs and operational policies.
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Rex
Until the day that EK embraces the concept of part time working, BA will always be a step above when it comes to lifestyle.
The Arabs are less of a concern, to be honest but the problem lies with the bureaucracy, lack of accountability and overall inefficiency that proliferates within the many 'empires' that have been created within the company, by those who are generally from the sub-continent. They will be responsible for leave allocation, rostering etc and therefore will have more influence over your day to day work/life balance. Many senior management positions are held by westerners here in EK, so greedy capitalism has existed for some time but it was simply exported to the Middle East and perfected, before it was exploited closer to home.
Never underestimate the power of a union, even if the overall effectiveness of BALPA may be a moot point for some of your colleagues.
Until the day that EK embraces the concept of part time working, BA will always be a step above when it comes to lifestyle.
The Arabs are less of a concern, to be honest but the problem lies with the bureaucracy, lack of accountability and overall inefficiency that proliferates within the many 'empires' that have been created within the company, by those who are generally from the sub-continent. They will be responsible for leave allocation, rostering etc and therefore will have more influence over your day to day work/life balance. Many senior management positions are held by westerners here in EK, so greedy capitalism has existed for some time but it was simply exported to the Middle East and perfected, before it was exploited closer to home.
Never underestimate the power of a union, even if the overall effectiveness of BALPA may be a moot point for some of your colleagues.
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Tbh every airline is in a race to the bottom. Please someone tell me where the perfect airline is because I can tell you one thing it’s sure not our legacy carriers in the UK. If you join BA long haul your more then likely end up with 5 trips a month with just 2 days off between trips. Not really that different from EK, albeit on a lot less pay. Ok you could argue that after gaining some seniority you may be able to gain some control. But who knows? The question I ask myself is if I stay at BA and wait it out it will take me 18 years for a long haul command whose to say management wouldn’t have reduced terms and conditions even further, seems very plausible given their current record. BA management have taken away final salary pension and increased the pay scale timelines from 25 years to 35 years before you earn top salaries. Talk of moving to 24 hour layovers on routes where they can get away with it. What will they take from me in anther 10 years? Cathay used to be the airline of choice for many but now look at what management have done to that gig scale D has now been introduced as far as I’m aware hardly enough to live on in Hong Kong.
To those i would say earn the money whilst you can clear your debts and then look improving your quality of life. Flying 900 hours a year till your 65 Is not sustainable and unfortunately we are now the new generation of pilots who will be tasked to do this. Choose wisely and best of luck.
To those i would say earn the money whilst you can clear your debts and then look improving your quality of life. Flying 900 hours a year till your 65 Is not sustainable and unfortunately we are now the new generation of pilots who will be tasked to do this. Choose wisely and best of luck.
Too much of their, BA Management and they - don't you mean I I and I?
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I stand corrected. Right I’m opening my office door to all next week please feel free to pop in and share your views of how I should steer this ship. If your lucky I may even treat you to the Starbucks downstairs but only a grande! #watchthepennies
Only half a speed-brake
How many full nights (8 to 8) does a T7 pilot spend home at DXB on an yearly aggregate, leave included? And BA?
Home many complete days, i.e. 24hrs?
That metrics is not simplistic at all, allows a bit of comparison against the SH jobs, and high earners in different industries to some extent too.
Home many complete days, i.e. 24hrs?
That metrics is not simplistic at all, allows a bit of comparison against the SH jobs, and high earners in different industries to some extent too.