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Aviation jobs T&C, employment/self employment & national laws

Old 10th May 2019, 12:34
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@2unlimited: Losing license (they can actually not take the license for every nation even Norway can not take Polish license for Poland for example because Poland can give it back, they can only ban you from driving in their nation) being banned for driving in UK or France.... especially for a tourist is like no problem if the tourist does not really wish to visit there all the time. And a fine is something you can get for breaking a civil deal so its also natural. But to be jailed for it is something totally different it can ruin peoples careers not only pilots but also judges and many others especially when its the only nation in the world practicing something like that.... so if the reason is to get people to drive slower and not to fine and jail them then even more point in placing info at the border especially when people enter with autobahn.

As for Poland there is 140 km/h on A1 and A2 autobahn, its 120 km/h on motor express ways but (they look like autobahn but are not) and its like 20 euro fine to drive 160-170 km/h on the 140 km/h autobahns for 150 km/h you skip fine since its inside tolerance. In Germany there is free speed in like 80 % of the road from Poland to Netherlands/Belgium or from Poland to Denmark....... so what fine if there is free speed?

And your logic sounds taken to an extreme like "if castrating everyone prevents 1 unnecessary rape then we should all be castrated" and its definitely the socialist logic of things. Forbid, forbid, forbid preventive instead of punishing the guilty.... and letting the not guilty be free. And in the end it gets to stuff like politicians forbidding everything they do not like and the reason can be looks alone like the case is with 2 dog races in Norway.... so if you can forbid a dog because you do not like how it looks like then what is the next thing a politician can forbid.... oh I forgot they can force you to have the same color on your house as the neighbor because its aesthetic.... no one care about your private property if the politician decide he want all houses white then white it is. So what will be next when Rødt, SV and MDG get in control.... poor those 15 % Norwegians who vote FrP or Liberalistene they are probably also those who have to pay the highest taxes.....

I am not comparing EU with the Soviet Union I said it was the direction it was starting to walk towards..... until people realized it and stopped it. Because by voting all those new political parties they actually made the old ones stop in fear of being voted out of office if they continue on the road towards United Socialist States of Europe. Of course it is much poverty in the East the reason is all those years with forced socialism..... its not like anyone voted for it even in Russia. Imagine communism came to be through a revolution and the leaders were trained in the west (Switzerland), the ideology was created in the west (Marks & Engels) and Germans paid for the revolution as part of I World War and gave Lenin a train filled with gold to buy the first revolutionaries with. Then the rest of Eastern Europe who were still free and had higher GDP per capita than for example Norway..... got crushed and devastated by another ideology coming from the west.... national socialism.... like 20 million civilian people (not counting military casualties) in Eastern European nations got murdered (they were "only" shot, burned to death, blown up with grenades, hanged etc. itd. so its not being talked about like the concentration camps) almost all factories and everything was bombed and destroyed... then the nice western allies sold their pre war ally Poland to the Soviet Union and we got forced socialism while everyone else got Marshall help... but of course its all our fault that there is lower GDP per capita today.... and its the great hard work of Norwegians and not the soviets restraining from "liberating" more than Finnmark + marshall help + finding oil that made the big difference from lowest GDP per capita before WW2.... of course no luck involved not at all....

Either way socialism of every kind have been suffered in Poland and no one wants any more true or untrue socialism. Most people wish capitalism and freedom now, and we believe the government is not a necessary middle man in our deals with companies. We do also not wish to pay as much as possible to politicians in order for them to waste our money (since no pensions etc. will be paid or they will be peanuts), we do not trust the politicians and believe its better to govern our life ourselves than to have a politician tell us how to live.

I do not know so much about Wizz Air, but I gave you proof that Ryan Air Sun pay more to self employed Captains flying 900 hours than you will ever get in netto salary as Captain for SAS or Norwegian in Norway. Still you tell me its exploiting workers and it would be much better if the Captains got employed and got half of it as netto salary. Because you can not legally get that deal in UK so no one should be able to earn so much netto or is it not the main idea behind socialism? Envying those who get a better deal or more money, the core of Norwegian "janteloven" ?
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Old 10th May 2019, 13:42
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@2unlimited: Actually there are many non Polish captains working for Ryan Air in Poland.... but not everyone want to live here because to each his taste just like not everyone wish to live in Dubai. Its also about knowing or not knowing the local language that affect the quality of life for foreigners.

Well maybe some other comparison then what about "If not letting in any refugees prevents 1 unnecessary terror attack then why let anyone in" and there are many other things that can be applied to this socialist logic that socialists will not like. And what is being prevented by banning dogs because of their looks or forcing people to paint their houses in the color of neighbors house? When you let politicians decide they will not stop with banning one thing they will continue until they make the world as the politician like it. As for a public road its ok with speed limits and fines its like terms and conditions any private company can make. But jailing people have to be overkill and it is reflected in the fact that only one nation in the world does it and skip informing on the border.... if prevention is the goal then why not inform foreigners?

No my parents did not leave soviet Poland they left independent Poland in 1997. And sadly my mother chose Norway and not the US as was planned because Norway changed totally their terms and conditions for doctors to get foreign doctors and started paying much, much more than other nations because they lacked doctors and the health queue got out of control. And I am pretty sure my early life would be much more fun in US.... but now I form my life myself. I am not hateful of Norway I feel sorry for those 15 % Norwegians who vote FrP and Liberalistene and have to endure all the socialism.... and what they will have to endure after SV, Rødt and MDG start to govern in Norway after the next election. What the politicians will forbid will then probably have no limits.

Well in "factory worker" kind of jobs its not that great so of course they move.... but for example doctors stopped moving and IT workers never moved after 1990. And of course all those who wish to work as little as possible and get as much "free stuff" as possible from the state of course those are running as fast as they can and the nations in the west can just enjoy its their laws and politics we are happy those people move to where they can get "free stuff" because we got no "free stuff" to give away to those who do not wish to work at all if possible.

Oh and no we do not need to increase population with people who do not wish to work, we also do not really need to increase it with 3 millions "refugees" from Ukraine.... you know Polish workers would be more than happy if the demand for workers is higher than the supply. You know basic law of economy if the demand exceed supply then salaries go up and up. So even letting the Ukrainians in is not something the "factory workers" in Poland cheer for, letting in people who only wish "free stuff" that would be total disaster. Wonder why for example Germany got 2 million refugees but they still need to hire workers from Poland to work on their farms for example? Something is not right getting 2 million extra people but still lacking workforce while having to give away "free stuff" to the new citizens. But that is another discussion in a capitalist world there should be open borders for everyone, but since there would be no "free stuff" then only real refugees and people who wish to work would leave their own countries.

Oh and no right side is sadly not strong in Poland we got only like 5 % for Partia Wolnosc (Party of Freedom which is the Polish Capitalist party) the law and justice and civil platform are both more or less socialists (law and justice a little less pro EU than civil platform but thats it) as for my taste and they give away "free stuff" to buy votes for our taxes.... still they know how far they can go before they are out of office and no one dare change the law to make people pay even more tax. So self employment will stay.
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Old 10th May 2019, 13:57
  #63 (permalink)  
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@2unlimited: Definitely not a right problem, maybe some problems with nationalists who wish free stuff which bring them to some extra mild version of national socialism..... You know the right is capitalist at least for me and there is no "free stuff" and no nationalism in capitalism.
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Old 10th May 2019, 14:26
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@2unlimited: Oh soviet union handed out a lot of "free stuff" to people who were members of the communist party or friends of them. But in the end they ran out of other peoples money like every socialism will in the end since no one will work hard so his neighbor can slack and get the same result. The problem is not the "free stuff" the problem is that imagine the stuff is not free its actually robbed of hard working people in the form of tax.

I do not know where you are spending your time, the only thing capitalism wish is give you freedom. While the only thing it looks like you wish is to take away that freedom especially for pilots who wish to be self employed. You do know that in a capitalist nation there is room for every ideology and every individual to live as he/she wish to. Even communists or national socialists or religious socialists can go together buy private property and make their own rules.... (with exception for jailing or killing each other) they can do what they want and make people who wish to join them sign any contract or deal (if the person signing is legally sane) that makes any fine they wish for breaking their rules and that let them expel people from that private property (which can be owned as a collective of those participating). You know capitalism is about freedom so you can live your life as you only wish it only prevent you from forcing others to live in the way that you believe is the best. In capitalism the only common tax is the value added tax to pay for police, jails and courts.

So feel free to give away as much as you wish just skip trying to force me participate in paying for the "free" stuff and give aways.
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Old 10th May 2019, 16:56
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@2unlimited: Imagine all the stuff is not free someone have to pay for it, money is not growing on trees no matter how hard socialists would wish it did. The only absolutely necessary stuff is courts, police, fire service and jail. But value added tax can also finance health care and schools.... other than that roads should be taxed by use since they are already public, new and better roads can be built by private companies.

The "capitalist elite" will have to follow absolutely the same rules as everyone else in a free market capitalism. That in difference to the current system where they can lobby the politicians and change the rules as they see fit. In a constitutional capitalist republic (like the US before central bank was created) the elite can not do as they want because the politicians can not just disregard the constitution that guarantee freedom. You have the system right now with "corporationist" elite that have free reign.... and you are afraid it would happen in the only system that is a solution to the unlimited government and elite power.
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Old 10th May 2019, 19:48
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@2unlimited: It is as the name say: value added tax its an extra tax on products (and services) purchased by private consumers (business to business you can deduct it). And the state decide how much it will be (but in EU not lower than lowest allowed in order to not "steal customers" from other member states) for example in Norway its 25 % while in Poland it is 23 %. And no it is not only used as a toll for foreign products. Its used on products both foreign and homemade, only for export the tax is deducted to help the export. Between EU states there is no deduction and customers still have to pay it.

Oh and I will tell you a little "secret" the Value added tax brings a lot more money to the state than income tax, yes even in Norway https://www.statsbudsjettet.no/Stats...ger/?pid=89003 "merverdi avgift". In other nations where the income tax is not so extreme and there is no tax on savings and no tax on stuff companies own like chains (so companies do not have to go bankrupt when they have a bad year in order to pay the tax on savings that are unsellable) the VAT is the biggest income the state got. So in other states income tax is more like "envy tax" than it is really necessary to run the state. In Poland for example adding a little more than 1 % value added tax and removing income tax + then being able to remove all bureaucracy required for the income tax would make the state actually have more and not less money (of course the politicians would just waste it but still). So now you know why VAT can be enough to run a state and even fund some "free" things if really, really necessary for humanitarian reasons.

As for USA then no I have not lived there, and before you ask no it is not my ideal state today. It was historically perfect in terms of economy (not freedom because of some laws from the past restricting peoples private life but those laws were then everywhere all over the world) before 1913 when the federal reserve bank became the first step to destroy the constitutional capitalist republic.

Last edited by KT1988; 10th May 2019 at 20:23.
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Old 11th May 2019, 06:38
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I wouldn't be using any reference to Richard Branson considering his total disregard to paying tax. He has always hidden his companies behind Caribbean tax shelters. He's a disgrace, yet many uneducated people look up to him as some sort of business role model.
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Old 11th May 2019, 09:18
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@2unlimited: So first of all I said USA was perfect in historic times not today. Then if waiters are not paid more it means one of the 2 things: 1. The tips are better than a fixed salary OR 2. There is so high supply of waiters no one need to pay more because the demand for them is not so great. If 2 is true then people should try some other jobs, it is not like they study 5 years to become a waiter. Oh and by the way in Norway waiters did not cry high because salaries were too bad, they were outraged when the government taxed their tips actually.

I do totally support companies giving good terms and conditions to their employees or self employees. And I would as business owner also wish to have happy workers. I do not know what made you think something else. What I said is that I do not want to make the politicians and the government be part of the deal, and I do not want to give mine or my employees wage away in tax so people voting for stuff like Rødt or MDG can get it as "free stuff" and never work a single day while they got time to scheme how to restrict my and others personal freedom.

The point where we disagree is what makes us happy as an employee. I wish maximum possible salary with a minimum possible tax to be given away by me and the company to the politicians. While probably you rather have a more predictable schedule even if it means less salary and much more money given away to the politicians.

@rotorwills: And why would it be bad that he do not wish to pay tax to politicians and governments? He pays his share by paying VAT all the time be buys something and its more than enough to run basic government and basic services. The government should be reduced to the absolute minimum not boosted up so we get more regulations and more bureaucracy and more control of our private life.
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Old 11th May 2019, 12:23
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@2unlimited: If you are employee in Poland the company employing you can also say goodbye and next. The only difference is that the politicians will be happy that you paid a lot more of your money to their budget so they had more to give to friendly building companies or to buy votes against your interests for your money.

If you are self employed the law of supply and demand apply just as much to you than any employed with the state as middle man. So they will not fire you if they need you, and if being fired is what someone with experience is most afraid of.... well it does not say much good about the person afraid to not pass an assessment at any other company. In a capitalist world if you are good & experienced for example a captain then you think "bad for them" and get self employed by another company and do your best so they are happy to have you there and do not wish to lose you (for example you are there after they call you when they need you for example because someone who should be there did not show up) and rather give you some extra money than employ someone who will for example not do so much for the company even if the other guy is cheaper because the cheaper guy can turn more costly the day when people call sick and there is no one who wish to come fly for example.

Of course all of this will only work if there is more demand than supply, if its the other way around no employee contract will save you cause the company will rather close down (happens even in Norway, especially when the state want "formueskatt" on machinery the company need and can not sell) than go bankrupt keeping people while they go in minus. Then they reopen in a different country or as a new company when the market turn around.
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Old 11th May 2019, 12:26
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Did you guys know that PPRuNe has private messaging function as well, so no need to open threads just for a personal chat between you two
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