Job Security Thoughts?
Most of the ex-TCX 757s ended up as freighters - so you may well be flying them! They were replaced by brand new A321s a few years ago, although a few older ones still remain. Long haul aircraft are older though.
Geardown1. May I direct you to a long thread on DHK on the Freight Dogs forum which will probably answer most of your questions? To kickstart you though. I think ppjn is about right on salaries. Once a roster is published the dates are set and can’t be changed without agreement. They are published mid month for the next month plus one, so,in 10 days or so we will get May’s roster. Within a rostered block of work change is normal, so if ending up in Madrid instead of Stockholm or Casablanca instead of Frankfurt is something you’d find difficult then walk away now. Work blocks are usually 3-6 days long followed by days off. These are sometimes short but we have 162 days contractually free of duty pa (42leave and 120 off) so it has to balance out eventually.
Routes from ema are the same as from LEJ, you just normally start by getting to LEJ. There are a few routes that go through ema (eg edi, cph/orb, mad) but they can fit into anyone’s roster. Think of a big European city and you’ll end up there or near there sooner or later!
Hope this helps - please read through the other thread which will probably answer a lot of questions
dh
Routes from ema are the same as from LEJ, you just normally start by getting to LEJ. There are a few routes that go through ema (eg edi, cph/orb, mad) but they can fit into anyone’s roster. Think of a big European city and you’ll end up there or near there sooner or later!
Hope this helps - please read through the other thread which will probably answer a lot of questions
dh
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Ah, those myths again!
deltahotel has quite successfully countered the argument about 'airframe age'. I would also like to add that one couldn't claim that a B747-8F would be a "30-year old frame" (not at all that I am on those!!) There are also B777F and B767F aircraft straight off the factory floor. Also, for those "30-year old frames" that are used, only the types tough enough to last that long are used (haven't seen any A320Fs?). But then, I am not a 'new aircraft snob' so none of that matters to me.
Then there's the 'perpetual night' bit. It's much nicer time to fly if you don't like slot delays, holding and speed controls. There are one or two places where you might queue behind one or two other aeroplanes at the RWY hold before departure but generally you start, taxi and go, without even having to wait for a 'secure cabin'. And none of those horrible 'earlies' with long duty periods (I haven't done an 'early' with more than a single sector of only 65 minutes flying for ages now).
And there's "... but every hour of flying at 2-6 am is killing you much faster than the ones flown during daylight." Well... I've just been for an eye check and my optometrist has said that my eyes are doing better than when I was flying with daylight glare (no significant change with my eyes over the past two years of night flying, the other side of the earth from the sun, must be a good sign). And of course, although I know that some of it is 'sling-shotted' around to the other side of the globe, all that solar radiation isn't blasting us all the time at work. Now for that other bit of the myth: I compared rosters with a 'holiday' pilot for part of last year and over the same period he was flying more hours between 10pm and 6am than I was!! In summer I constantly hear more 'pax' pilots on the R/T at 2am than us 'night flyers'! (And I know that they'll be repeating that relentlessly during the summer while I can enjoy half of summer in my garden with a G&T if I wish.)
So, summing those two up, my health isn't suffering and I actually often fly less late at night than others
Maybe my pay is a bit less. I compared my average monthly 'take home' over my first year in this job with the same over the last year in my previous job and was surprised how little the difference was (double digit figures!) But I have a huge number more Days Off, especially in summer.
But here comes the important bit (especially as this is a Job Security rather than a 'Job Ts&Cs' Thread): I spend most of the nights of the year (over 200) at home in bed asleep as long as I wish (no alarm clock unless it is to fit in with any social occasions), sleeping soundly without lying awake wondering if my job is secure.
deltahotel has quite successfully countered the argument about 'airframe age'. I would also like to add that one couldn't claim that a B747-8F would be a "30-year old frame" (not at all that I am on those!!) There are also B777F and B767F aircraft straight off the factory floor. Also, for those "30-year old frames" that are used, only the types tough enough to last that long are used (haven't seen any A320Fs?). But then, I am not a 'new aircraft snob' so none of that matters to me.
Then there's the 'perpetual night' bit. It's much nicer time to fly if you don't like slot delays, holding and speed controls. There are one or two places where you might queue behind one or two other aeroplanes at the RWY hold before departure but generally you start, taxi and go, without even having to wait for a 'secure cabin'. And none of those horrible 'earlies' with long duty periods (I haven't done an 'early' with more than a single sector of only 65 minutes flying for ages now).
And there's "... but every hour of flying at 2-6 am is killing you much faster than the ones flown during daylight." Well... I've just been for an eye check and my optometrist has said that my eyes are doing better than when I was flying with daylight glare (no significant change with my eyes over the past two years of night flying, the other side of the earth from the sun, must be a good sign). And of course, although I know that some of it is 'sling-shotted' around to the other side of the globe, all that solar radiation isn't blasting us all the time at work. Now for that other bit of the myth: I compared rosters with a 'holiday' pilot for part of last year and over the same period he was flying more hours between 10pm and 6am than I was!! In summer I constantly hear more 'pax' pilots on the R/T at 2am than us 'night flyers'! (And I know that they'll be repeating that relentlessly during the summer while I can enjoy half of summer in my garden with a G&T if I wish.)
So, summing those two up, my health isn't suffering and I actually often fly less late at night than others
Maybe my pay is a bit less. I compared my average monthly 'take home' over my first year in this job with the same over the last year in my previous job and was surprised how little the difference was (double digit figures!) But I have a huge number more Days Off, especially in summer.
But here comes the important bit (especially as this is a Job Security rather than a 'Job Ts&Cs' Thread): I spend most of the nights of the year (over 200) at home in bed asleep as long as I wish (no alarm clock unless it is to fit in with any social occasions), sleeping soundly without lying awake wondering if my job is secure.
Last edited by NoelEvans; 7th Mar 2019 at 16:52. Reason: Two small 'typos' corrected.
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I agree with you about cosmic radiation, but I was talking about solar radiation.
My optometrist today was specifically talking about the effects of UV.
I was not talking about scheduled pax flying at midnight, I specifically said 2am. That isn't "only shifting your nights sleep a few hours one way or t'other" (And if I'm working at that time I have almost never started work before 6pm, unlike the early- to mid- afternoon report times that those pax flights still on frequency at 2am have had.)
I don't experience "... hoovers slamming against [my] door in the bargain". I was concerned about sleeping during the day when I started this job, but I have found it to be hardly any problem. It has been immensely better than that dreaded alarm clock that used to go off at silly o' clock for 'earlies', that was a real 'killer' especially when having to set off for a 10 to 12 hour day at that silly o' clock.
But back to Job Security: I sleep comfortably at night not worrying about Job Security. This is a good sector of the industry to be in for Job Security.
My optometrist today was specifically talking about the effects of UV.
I was not talking about scheduled pax flying at midnight, I specifically said 2am. That isn't "only shifting your nights sleep a few hours one way or t'other" (And if I'm working at that time I have almost never started work before 6pm, unlike the early- to mid- afternoon report times that those pax flights still on frequency at 2am have had.)
I don't experience "... hoovers slamming against [my] door in the bargain". I was concerned about sleeping during the day when I started this job, but I have found it to be hardly any problem. It has been immensely better than that dreaded alarm clock that used to go off at silly o' clock for 'earlies', that was a real 'killer' especially when having to set off for a 10 to 12 hour day at that silly o' clock.
But back to Job Security: I sleep comfortably at night not worrying about Job Security. This is a good sector of the industry to be in for Job Security.
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deltahotel‘s Post is the most valid one on this Thread, yet everyone seems to be ignoring it.
Often called “the industry’s best kept secret”, it seems to be easy to see why it remains a ‘secret’ when people like deltahotel state it so clearly and yet everyone ignores it. Freight is growing well (airfreight services contribute £7.2 billion to the UK economy and support 151,000 jobs) and that has to be the answer to thoughts on Job Security.
Often called “the industry’s best kept secret”, it seems to be easy to see why it remains a ‘secret’ when people like deltahotel state it so clearly and yet everyone ignores it. Freight is growing well (airfreight services contribute £7.2 billion to the UK economy and support 151,000 jobs) and that has to be the answer to thoughts on Job Security.
I’m a converted Freight Dog from passenger flying and have to say that without doubt, in my opinion it’s the safest and most secure arm of aviation in the UK at the moment. It doesn’t get thought about much because of “glamour” of passenger flying, but I enjoy it. Lots of time at home and down route to explore new places, excellent T&Cs, varied routes and network, and the company look after us well too. Certain UK based freight airlines have got a fantastic and almost unparalleled opportunity post brexit, whatever the outcome is...
But as it’s not passengers, it’ll never be treated in the same light. Long may it continue to be the best kept secret in the industry.
I must also comment on the myth of perpetual nights too. I sleep more now than I ever did in passenger flying, we now have individual beds in Leipzig with our own personal toilet facilities including - perfect for grabbing a few hours in between flights. Where, personally, the big change has been is that I hated earlies. I struggled with sleep hugely. Now, in the freight world, I fly to LEJ or equivalent, have a couple of hours sleep (which is what I would get before an early!), then do an hour Long sector on average and then get more sleep. The end result though is that actually I am so much less tired than I ever was flying passengers.
Day flying is also on the increase. Plus there are a number of flights you can treat as earlies if you do so wish - and get a full night of sleep ahead of work.
It really isn’t as grim as a/ it was and b/ it is painted as. Nights don’t agree with everyone, granted, but if like me you’re a night owl as opposed to someone gets up Dawn’s crack (errrm yeah!), then actually it works pretty well indeed. Plus, you’re hardly ever doing more than 300 hours a year flying on the SH fleet.
It is strange though that in flying freight for a good time now, I have not had to phone in fatigued once. Whereas in the middle of summer, while the rosters were biting hard...
It is all food for thought and opinions though. As I said, it’s not for everyone. But if you want stability, security and a good home/work balance... there are many worse options out there.
Now I’ll head back into the Freightdogs forum with a tin hat on.
Last edited by hobnobanyone; 8th Mar 2019 at 14:21.
