swiss air + CRX Air = (swiss-lx)=0
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swiss air + CRX Air = (swiss-lx)=0
rumour is either create a regional airline again or seperate contract for ex-lx crew. Either way they will run out of cash by 2004. Could any brave insider shed light which will happen first?
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I think contract alone is just a piece of paper when it goes belliup.
For sure winner is those young ones gaining experience for better prospect, historically crx has become like a flying school. Get training and and experience then run-run.
For sure winner is those young ones gaining experience for better prospect, historically crx has become like a flying school. Get training and and experience then run-run.
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Studi
I'm not going into a debate about this. The question is, who went bust? LX or SR?????
Have nothing to do with either companies but lived long enough in Switzerland to know the answer and reason why!
I'm not going into a debate about this. The question is, who went bust? LX or SR?????
Have nothing to do with either companies but lived long enough in Switzerland to know the answer and reason why!
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Well, the Swiss government has already made up its mind about who the bad boys are: it's the former Crossair pilots.
There's been a public warning by a government minister that no more tax payers' money is forthcoming (sensible - although there should not have been any in the first place), and an implication that should ex-Crossair cockpit crew force the issue for equal treatment with ex-SR pilots, they will be putting at risk the very survival of "Swiss International Air Lines".
As Dr. Know says: people have very short memories and they've already forgotton which business model finally went bust (notwithstanding Crossair's more dodgy safety record).
There's been a public warning by a government minister that no more tax payers' money is forthcoming (sensible - although there should not have been any in the first place), and an implication that should ex-Crossair cockpit crew force the issue for equal treatment with ex-SR pilots, they will be putting at risk the very survival of "Swiss International Air Lines".
As Dr. Know says: people have very short memories and they've already forgotton which business model finally went bust (notwithstanding Crossair's more dodgy safety record).
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Sorry to destroy your illusion guys, but CRX was just as bancrupt as SR!!! Unfortunately SR's collapse created great distraction from Crossair's financial situation...
The simple reason, why Crossair was made to survive, instead of Swissair, is that it was much easier to create a new airline under the hood of CRX, as SR was integrated into the SAirGroup in such a complex mannor, that it would have been much to complicated and costly to untangle that mess...
It is an absolutely ridiculous daydream, that the seniority-zipper should be applied!!! That way you would have experienced ex-SR Pilots flying as F/Os with ex-CRX Pilots who have half of the SR guy's flying experience!!! Any Pilot who has had a decent CRM (Crew Ressource Management) training, should be able to imagine how flight safety would be affected, if the seniority zipper were applied...
ABD
The simple reason, why Crossair was made to survive, instead of Swissair, is that it was much easier to create a new airline under the hood of CRX, as SR was integrated into the SAirGroup in such a complex mannor, that it would have been much to complicated and costly to untangle that mess...
It is an absolutely ridiculous daydream, that the seniority-zipper should be applied!!! That way you would have experienced ex-SR Pilots flying as F/Os with ex-CRX Pilots who have half of the SR guy's flying experience!!! Any Pilot who has had a decent CRM (Crew Ressource Management) training, should be able to imagine how flight safety would be affected, if the seniority zipper were applied...
ABD
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Taking into consideration that you are "from the bottom of reality";you make a pretty correct statement.
Crx was healthy (economicly), the only losses they had were from the oustanding SR bills.
Studi : Reminding me of Sabena, Sabena is mainline and Dat is regional. Sabena went bust and Dat took over. Until now pretty similar. Dat is growing out to be mailine. Guess who is keeping their seniority and and salary model.
Crx was healthy (economicly), the only losses they had were from the oustanding SR bills.
Studi : Reminding me of Sabena, Sabena is mainline and Dat is regional. Sabena went bust and Dat took over. Until now pretty similar. Dat is growing out to be mailine. Guess who is keeping their seniority and and salary model.
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Well Studi
I have the pleasure to inform you that I am not a CRX pilot and yes I do fly Big aircraft and yes, I do not need a seniority zipper.
My comment had nothing to do with seniority zipping in the first instance. If you stick you’re head out of your "perfect world" you would probably realise that if SR went bust, it was them, looking at unemployment, not Crossair.
If you vote for someone that will turf your tax money into a bankrupt business, I suggest you vote for someone ells next time.
As I said before, I'm not going into a discussion on this. So I guess I said enough
I have the pleasure to inform you that I am not a CRX pilot and yes I do fly Big aircraft and yes, I do not need a seniority zipper.
My comment had nothing to do with seniority zipping in the first instance. If you stick you’re head out of your "perfect world" you would probably realise that if SR went bust, it was them, looking at unemployment, not Crossair.
If you vote for someone that will turf your tax money into a bankrupt business, I suggest you vote for someone ells next time.
As I said before, I'm not going into a discussion on this. So I guess I said enough
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Studi, I think we can at least all agree that a lot is rotten in the state of switzerland! (You can ask Ed Fagan 
or otherwise look at the flower/butterfly-ties that they make pilots wear)
As " just a taxpayer" you seem well informed about the demise of the S-air group, but your information is very one-sided.
Probably you have more friends with the former SR than the former Crossair. (which is fine with me)
Let me try and fill everybody in on the Crossair-side of the story.
The whole deal is NOT primarily over money! It is about a fair distribution of gains and risks on ALL fronts.
The sentiment in Basel is that Crossair was used as a lifeboat and then hijacked by former SR-people.
Within the "single pilot corps" a lot of extreme differences emerged, which resulted in social unrest.
After countless unfruitfull talks, the Crossair pilots union decided to take the managment to court on account of being discriminated upon. Concerning seniority, vacation and yes, pay.
And guess what, they WON! The managment of -now- SWISS was forced to pay a quarter million SFR, and find a reasonable solution for this problem.
Up to now there have been no offers laid on the table by the managment which exceed the pre-court offers.
Time will tell how this tale ends...
P.S. To put your remark about greediness in context, a copilot with the former Crossair makes about Sfr4800, in a country where an average car mechanic makes the same!
Without paying for his Sfr 100000+ education.
or otherwise look at the flower/butterfly-ties that they make pilots wear)As " just a taxpayer" you seem well informed about the demise of the S-air group, but your information is very one-sided.
Probably you have more friends with the former SR than the former Crossair. (which is fine with me)
Let me try and fill everybody in on the Crossair-side of the story.
The whole deal is NOT primarily over money! It is about a fair distribution of gains and risks on ALL fronts.
The sentiment in Basel is that Crossair was used as a lifeboat and then hijacked by former SR-people.
Within the "single pilot corps" a lot of extreme differences emerged, which resulted in social unrest.
After countless unfruitfull talks, the Crossair pilots union decided to take the managment to court on account of being discriminated upon. Concerning seniority, vacation and yes, pay.
And guess what, they WON! The managment of -now- SWISS was forced to pay a quarter million SFR, and find a reasonable solution for this problem.
Up to now there have been no offers laid on the table by the managment which exceed the pre-court offers.
Time will tell how this tale ends...
P.S. To put your remark about greediness in context, a copilot with the former Crossair makes about Sfr4800, in a country where an average car mechanic makes the same!
Without paying for his Sfr 100000+ education.
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studi
Is it so easy to produce captains at CRX so every tom,dick and harry with four stripes are allover the place(Bus stations, train stations). First I thought they were personnels from Swiss-Bahn.
Just to change the subject what are they doing in train stations?
Is it so easy to produce captains at CRX so every tom,dick and harry with four stripes are allover the place(Bus stations, train stations). First I thought they were personnels from Swiss-Bahn.
Just to change the subject what are they doing in train stations?
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:cool:
Robert, your comments with an asset stripping record like your name has - is just so sick. It makes me realise that the Swiss Mafia need to sort the country out because the democracy is creaking at the edges.
Not a pilot, but I've been in a company that folded - IOS to be exact, because of a certain Vesco. My next job was actually a better job, but I started at the bottom of the stack.
Zipper seniority is better than bottom of the stack, as it legally should be - that is where you will be in Air Switzerland - as and when Swiss go belly-up.
Anybody want to start the betting on when it will happen if the Swiss Management doesn't get its solutions right within the next 29 days.
My guess is March 29th 2003.
Not a pilot, but I've been in a company that folded - IOS to be exact, because of a certain Vesco. My next job was actually a better job, but I started at the bottom of the stack.
Zipper seniority is better than bottom of the stack, as it legally should be - that is where you will be in Air Switzerland - as and when Swiss go belly-up.
Anybody want to start the betting on when it will happen if the Swiss Management doesn't get its solutions right within the next 29 days.
My guess is March 29th 2003.
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piltos at train stations=repositioning?
Ex-crossair pilots will lose....sign the contract,next year the fleet will shrink,and lots of them will be out of the job-swissair pilots will always be the winners!
Ex-crossair pilots will lose....sign the contract,next year the fleet will shrink,and lots of them will be out of the job-swissair pilots will always be the winners!
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My username
Hi Gofer,
Sorry that you get offended by my username, but let's face it, it's just a bl**dy username dude !
If I would have chosen "Mickey Mouse" as a username and you had nightmares about Mickey Mouse as a kid (say about 30-40 years ago ) do you seriously imply that I should change my username ? Get real !
Finalschecks,
You are absolutely right !
Sorry that you get offended by my username, but let's face it, it's just a bl**dy username dude !
If I would have chosen "Mickey Mouse" as a username and you had nightmares about Mickey Mouse as a kid (say about 30-40 years ago
) do you seriously imply that I should change my username ? Get real ! Finalschecks,
You are absolutely right !
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Apart from the fight between the ex-sr and ex-crx pilots, do you all agree that management is spreading rumours and uncertainties so as to make surplus pilots leave on their own and then problem soved automatically.
Fighting for right is good but also have a thought on divide and rule policy can be effective tools for managers as proved during colonial times.
I only wish much luck to fellow pilots, it is no longer a glamorous profession as used to be.
Fighting for right is good but also have a thought on divide and rule policy can be effective tools for managers as proved during colonial times.
I only wish much luck to fellow pilots, it is no longer a glamorous profession as used to be.
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RV
No way RV that I'm implying that you should change your name... I was just wondering if you really knew who RV was in the long and distant past and what he did and how he did it.
This forum probably isn't the place to discuss the guy who was the probably one of the first seriously suspected criminal asset strippers, who stopped at little, who caused Billions of dollars of grief at a time when the dollar was really worth something, who ended up loosing his home but with 200+Mio US$ and who has quite a few suicides and broken homes that caused many kids to grow up into problem people as the direct result of his actions.
And all of that took place in Switzerland - so it may just be coincidence - I hope so for you - but that name on this thread is more than red flags and bulls.
Enjoy Dude, for what its worth.
This forum probably isn't the place to discuss the guy who was the probably one of the first seriously suspected criminal asset strippers, who stopped at little, who caused Billions of dollars of grief at a time when the dollar was really worth something, who ended up loosing his home but with 200+Mio US$ and who has quite a few suicides and broken homes that caused many kids to grow up into problem people as the direct result of his actions.
And all of that took place in Switzerland - so it may just be coincidence - I hope so for you - but that name on this thread is more than red flags and bulls.
Enjoy Dude, for what its worth.
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Air Bus Driver:
Your suggestion that "CRX was just as bankrupt as SR" is a strange statement.
First, there is no such thing as relative bankruptcy; like pregnancy: you're either pregnant or you're not. So, one is either bankrupt or not, and conversely, you can't be more bankrupt or less bankrupt than someone else.
Second, can you point to any bankruptcy filing by CRX (which would be the legal basis for your statement)?
The only reasonable statement would be to say that CRX was in a difficult financial situation - like many other airlines at the time, one might add.
Your suggestion that "CRX was just as bankrupt as SR" is a strange statement.
First, there is no such thing as relative bankruptcy; like pregnancy: you're either pregnant or you're not. So, one is either bankrupt or not, and conversely, you can't be more bankrupt or less bankrupt than someone else.
Second, can you point to any bankruptcy filing by CRX (which would be the legal basis for your statement)?
The only reasonable statement would be to say that CRX was in a difficult financial situation - like many other airlines at the time, one might add.
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G´day Gofer,
The reason I chose RV as username is because of book written by RV´s pilot who flew him around the world in his private 707, named Silver Phyllis. The book is called The Flying Capetbagger and is great fun to read. It revolves around his wheelings and dealings, but also about a man flying around the world in his private 707 full of booze and beautifull women. A great deal of his scams were plotted here in Switzerland (IOS in Geneva) , but also involve Costa Rica´s ex-president Marti Figueres, the SEC and even have links to Richard ´tricky dicky´ Nixon.
It also illustrates the Banana Republic that Switzerland is.....
Grüetzi !
RV
The reason I chose RV as username is because of book written by RV´s pilot who flew him around the world in his private 707, named Silver Phyllis. The book is called The Flying Capetbagger and is great fun to read. It revolves around his wheelings and dealings, but also about a man flying around the world in his private 707 full of booze and beautifull women. A great deal of his scams were plotted here in Switzerland (IOS in Geneva) , but also involve Costa Rica´s ex-president Marti Figueres, the SEC and even have links to Richard ´tricky dicky´ Nixon.
It also illustrates the Banana Republic that Switzerland is.....
Grüetzi !
RV