LOT Polish Airlines hiring

[KT1988]

Just some info about the sim LOT is using, recently I spoke with one colleague who just finished his training at the flight school I am attending, then did MCC/JOC at LOT then quickly got hired by LOT. He said that the sim is special and without having flown it before... it would be unrealistic to expect to fly it well. So maybe it would be a good idea to rent the sim and do some hours on it (its possible to rent the sim and train from what I heard).

Plus I noticed in this thread some posts of people unhappy with having the option to apply at LOT (discrimination is being claimed).... well in the past it was an airline that accepted only Polish speakers (just like Lufthansa expect you to speak German, KLM expect you to speak Dutch, SAS expect you to speak Scandinavian language, Air France expect you to speak French etc.) now its available to apply for people who do not speak Polish.... and people seem to be unhappy that they got a chance at all to apply. Its a Polish national legacy airline so its pretty obvious they prefer to do like the other national legacy airlines. Its probably opening the base in Budapest that was the reason they started recruiting non Polish speakers (Polish pilots obviously prefer to be based in Poland).

Its strange that people are not writing about "discrimination" when according to posts on this forum other national airlines require people to speak in their language and still even if you speak for example German they will prefer a native speaker at for example Lufthansa (according to posts on this forum).

[booze]

All those other airlines you have mentioned requiring their relevant languages to be spoken before applying. LOT doesn't so they have absolutely no right on discriminating, however it is not the company, but some of the employees, like captains and senior cabin attendants who are making sure that non-Polish speakers are reminded about who is "calling the shots" on a day to day basis. Toxic culture, imho. Management should really fix this. Then we didn't even mention the salaries they pay - another can of worms.

[Michael S]

Originally Posted by booze

All those other airlines you have mentioned requiring their relevant languages to be spoken before applying. LOT doesn't so they have absolutely no right on discriminating, however it is not the company, but some of the employees, like captains and senior cabin attendents who are making sure that non-Polish speakers are reminded about who is "calling the shots" on a day to day basis. Toxic culture, imho. Management should really fix this. Then we didn't even mention the salaries they pay - another can of worms.

Well said.

[jollyRoger123]

Originally Posted by booze

All those other airlines you have mentioned requiring their relevant languages to be spoken before applying. LOT doesn't so they have absolutely no right on discriminating, however it is not the company, but some of the employees, like captains and senior cabin attendents who are making sure that non-Polish speakers are reminded about who is "calling the shots" on a day to day basis. Toxic culture, imho. Management should really fix this. Then we didn't even mention the salaries they pay - another can of worms.

Well said booze ! if they should mention before hiring if they want polish speaker, instead hr will promise you anything you want to hear to make you join.

I have no problem with the fact people speak polish in common areas as it’s theyr national airline , but in the flight deck I expect that everyone should speak the same language so to be on the same page. Unfortunately most of the briefing are held in polish and generally there is a very unprofessional attitude and bad Crm from old pilots.

Not to mention that as non Polish you ll never have a career here and you will never be upgraded. Confirm toxic environment not worth for what they offer.

[KT1988]

@booze: Well you know the salary before you apply also you know the fleet and the bases available. The model is created with Polish cost of living and Polish taxes in mind and not for example Norwegian cost of living and Norwegian taxes. With a base in Poland you can get a better salary only in Ryan Air Sun / Buzz (they do actually pay extremely well (having Poland in mind) for captains at least) and also maybe in Wizz Air (sector pay is some strange way of calculating salary) too but you will not have the same opportunities to fly different aircraft plus possibility to get to long haul with 787. So its up to each person what they think is most important for them. Additionally I find it incorrect to compare salaries with bases in Poland with salaries in bases in some high cost nations, especially if someone desire to live in Poland then how does it help him that in UK he could be paid more if he do not desire to live there?

As for information about employees "discriminating" well I know pilots who just got a job there and instructors who are both FOs and Captains at LOT. No one have heard about things like this happening plus there is from what I heard so to say always a Polish Captain/FO flying from bases in Poland.

Regarding other airlines requiring their relevant language I have seen in discussions people write that they do not require native speakers but still prefer them than proficient speakers of the language who are not native. No one claimed it to be discrimination, but some people instead claimed things like for example British Airways should make some special hard English tests because its "unfair" that all pilots speak English and can apply to "their airline" instead of natives only.

[Michael S]

KT1988
Denying the existence of discrimination is either living in wonderland or being on the receiving end of the process.
Discrimination is happening all over Europe. Some places are worse some better but it's always there. It's also not entirely bad thing, you just need to know what to expect. Personally I think LOT slightly above average in that matter but nowhere near to the likes of Lufthansa and AF for example.

[KT1988]

@Michael S: I do not deny that what people wrote about has happened, I just told about what I heard from pilots flying for LOT. Obviously I am not yet done with all my licenses (close to the finish now) so I am not yet flying for any airline and have not been at any assessment. I was just telling feedback about the sim that I got from someone who recently got a job at LOT plus telling what I heard from pilots flying there for a long time.

I was just surprised that people were so surprised that a national legacy airline may wish first of all to hire Polish speakers. Since I saw no "outrage" that for example Lufthansa, Air France or KLM prefer native speakers of their respective languages (while all proficient in those languages can apply). Rather the other way around people from UK were unhappy that "everyone" is applying to British Airways since its "their national legacy carrier" so no wonder people in each nation can have the idea that it should be "for us first, since its our national carrier".

[Michael S]

Originally Posted by KT1988

@Michael S: I do not deny that what people wrote about has happened, I just told about what I heard from pilots flying for LOT. Obviously I am not yet done with all my licenses (close to the finish now) so I am not yet flying for any airline and have not been at any assessment. I was just telling feedback about the sim that I got from someone who recently got a job at LOT plus telling what I heard from pilots flying there for a long time.

I was just surprised that people were so surprised that a national legacy airline may wish first of all to hire Polish speakers. Since I saw no "outrage" that for example Lufthansa, Air France or KLM prefer native speakers of their respective languages (while all proficient in those languages can apply). Rather the other way around people from UK were unhappy that "everyone" is applying to British Airways since its "their national legacy carrier" so no wonder people in each nation can have the idea that it should be "for us first, since its our national carrier".

Wish you a success with your licence. There's unfortunately more unpleasant surprises for you to come.
Anyway LOT is a discrimnatory place, but not more than other national carriers. It may be a nice place to be for a Pole, but it won't be for someone with arab background, as Poland generally is an unpleasant place for people of this origin.

[Intrance]

I work a lot with Polish crew, quite a few from LOT themselves and they all tell the same stories about how you don't want to be a foreigner there and even toxic cultures among Polish crew regarding hierarchy and rank. And if you can make more money in Poland working for Ryanair Poland or Wizz... I think you are doing something wrong as national carrier. I am at the moment making more money on a regional jet left seat than I would in the right seat or even a lot of cases in the left seat of a LOT 787. And I am living in a country that is not really much more expensive in terms of living costs...

[booze]

Being based in a country of lower costs of living is not an excuse for lower T&C-s, imho.

LOT is selling a product, called a flight from A to B which is not cheaper than the same product sold by SAS or Finnair. Why should it's employees have lower wages? Just because the majority of them are based in Eastern Europe? This can't be a factor in an argument defending the pathetic pay they have on offer. In fact there shouldn't be an argument at all.

[White_Eagle]

Originally Posted by Intrance

I work a lot with Polish crew, quite a few from LOT themselves and they all tell the same stories about how you don't want to be a foreigner there and even toxic cultures among Polish crew regarding hierarchy and rank. And if you can make more money in Poland working for Ryanair Poland or Wizz... I think you are doing something wrong as national carrier. I am at the moment making more money on a regional jet left seat than I would in the right seat or even a lot of cases in the left seat of a LOT 787. And I am living in a country that is not really much more expensive in terms of living costs...

Originally Posted by jollyRoger123

Well said booze ! if they should mention before hiring if they want polish speaker, instead hr will promise you anything you want to hear to make you join.
I have no problem with the fact people speak polish in common areas as it’s theyr national airline , but in the flight deck I expect that everyone should speak the same language so to be on the same page. Unfortunately most of the briefing are held in polish and generally there is a very unprofessional attitude and bad Crm from old pilots.
Not to mention that as non Polish you ll never have a career here and you will never be upgraded. Confirm toxic environment not worth for what they offer.

Hi there guys,

could you please elaborate on that? I already heard these stories many times about polish crews. Is there some examples? It seems LOT has a CRM culture with old captains and old senior cabin crew members that come close to "CRM-hell" in Turkish carriers.

Thanks!

[Hawker400]

Originally Posted by White_Eagle

Hi there guys,

could you please elaborate on that? I already heard these stories many times about polish crews. Is there some examples? It seems LOT has a CRM culture with old captains and old senior cabin crew members that come close to "CRM-hell" in Turkish carriers.

Thanks!

https://youtu.be/m2E2Se4021E

I live in Poland as a foreigner and this is a snapshot of so many captains and instructors. Probably similar at LOT, DEFINITELY worse for foreigners.

[Intrance]

From my hearsay stories its just pulling rank in obnoxious ways, making the junior staff do the ****ty work etc. It can happen in any airline, fair enough, but the things I've heard from Polish colleagues just seem pretty bad. Same goes for stories from the cockpit from foreign pilots. Crews very reluctant to speak English. Some sh*t-talking literally behind your back in Polish.

[7oodaz]

Originally Posted by BarryMG

I would expect LOT to be the least welcoming carrier in Poland for foreigners. Plenty of other options there fortunately, usually better than LOT anyway (despite being on the lower end in Europe - I'm talking Ryr, Wizz, Enter etc.). Then there are a couple of executive gigs in Warsaw, and if you dig that kind of work, you could also try your local flight school - Bartolini - they're pretty international, in need of instructors I hear, and definitely could help a bit with the conversion if you agreed to work there (I'm not affiliated with them btw.). If family is more important than money, there's nothing better than working in your town and being home every evening.

thanks Barry for your reply, i've seriously thought about Bartolini but im not sure of their salary, but yes i will definitely try with them after i finish my license conversion .

Originally Posted by Hawker400

The fact of the matter is that you will need an EASA license, either now or in the future.

As someone living in Poland who has converted an ICAO to EASA you should apply for the exams as soon as possible. With your hours and ATP license you can self-sponsor and go directly for the exams (1068zł). You can only do this while your rating is still valid. The practical isn't so cheap or easy but you have plenty of time to plan that once the exams are out of the way.

I think there are better options and to be honest as a foreigner in Poland even with EU passport it's a very discriminating place. But to each his own..

yes Hawker i already sent my application to the ULC but it's been 1 month and now one sent me back, i will call them or even go to their office, but yes i will definitely finish the conversion asap . thanks .

[7oodaz]

and actually i will never be able to fit in a toxic environment again, one reason why i left my previous airline was the toxic environment, "CRM-HELL" . so i think i will get my EASA and try with flight schools or something, thanks guys for your advices .

[Dreamshiner]

Agency or Direct

Can anyone advise what the pro's and con's are to going via an agency such as Goose/Sigma or direct with LOT? It appears the agencies are just doing the initial screening and then pass the candidate on to be directly employed. Any experiences or advice welcome

[Sholayo]

All,
Some background for broader picture. I am Polish, working for large multinational corporation. 30% of people in my workplace are expats and I know a thing about challenges they face in my country. I know also how rewarding it is to blend in and becoming local. I am proud of the latter and I will try to explain the first.

For one thing - yes, Poland is very homogenous country - typical for Central and Eastern Europe. Outside of Warsaw we have very few non-Polish people, even in Warsaw this is new. And I mean like 3-4 year new.
Result is that a lot of Poles has little idea how to interact with foreigners, especially POC. Sometimes we may be rude or simply unpleasant. I assure you however if you come close to somebody - you'll have friends for life. We are pretty honest - no one pretends to be nice. May be this is not right way but it is what it is. You ca easily tell friends from foes.
In short - be prepared for rough start in Poland, but once you settle and make friends with Poles (expats do not count) you will not be able to live elsewhere We are not necessarily 'discriminatory', we have little idea how to deal with you guys (at least most of the time this may be the reason).

Now on PLL Lot itself. Lot means 'flight" in Polish BTW.
People call it 'family business' here in Poland. Most people would rather assume to go elsewhere after flight training as is is suspected that unless you do not have family ties within - you're screwed. That counts regardless if you are a pilot, FA or even IT. I tried the latter and failed.
Not so long ago Lot had significant attrition of pilots, EK, Wizz and the likes. So right now they started to hire people "from the street". Rumor has it it is not embraced well by old hands.

So combination of both gives you unpleasant situation. Sad but true. Despite this I would sell my kidney to fly for them LHS in Dash-8

Cheers

[requesting.direct]

B787 conditions

Hi guys. I was recently on the interview for B787, still waiting for reply.
In the meantime, could somebody please tell me, how many hours do they actually fly on average? I heard rumors that they just fly the minimum 40h guarantee, hopefully this is just the rumor. I would really appreciate some opinion from a pilot on 787, mostly about a rosyer, number of stbys per month and how many off days do you usually get in a block.

And about the interview, it wasn't that hard. One day thing consisted of 3 parts. Simulator, psychology (or more like inteligence test, matrix shapes and multytasking) and interview. Question on interview were why you want to join them, some positive/negative expirience from your career, your previous airplane type related questions, metar+taf to decode (plus something meteorology related related to it), sigmet chart and then some jeppesen chart to explain or brief. They were nice and friendly.

[jollyRoger123]

Originally Posted by requesting.direct

Hi guys. I was recently on the interview for B787, still waiting for reply.
In the meantime, could somebody please tell me, how many hours do they actually fly on average? I heard rumors that they just fly the minimum 40h guarantee, hopefully this is just the rumor. I would really appreciate some opinion from a pilot on 787, mostly about a rosyer, number of stbys per month and how many off days do you usually get in a block.

And about the interview, it wasn't that hard. One day thing consisted of 3 parts. Simulator, psychology (or more like inteligence test, matrix shapes and multytasking) and interview. Question on interview were why you want to join them, some positive/negative expirience from your career, your previous airplane type related questions, metar+taf to decode (plus something meteorology related related to it), sigmet chart and then some jeppesen chart to explain or brief. They were nice and friendly.

the average is 60 hrs a month , roster is nice with a lot of days off , layovers 24 h to 48h usually unless u don’t fly charter destinations . you get also all benefits of a flag carrier. Management is nice too and help you out with days off or flights requests.

Just if you are a foreigner don’t belive any promise of career or quick upgrade.

[James Ken McIntosh]

Originally Posted by wondering

You can expect three to four rotations a month on the 787 at the moment. Closer to max hrs than min hrs. 40hrs is more likely on the 737 due to the Max issue.

Have the minimum requirements gone up for Dash 8 and Embraer FO’s?

some agency say 200hrs TT

others say 400 TT

so what are they looking for?