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FO‘s expectations of a new Captain

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FO‘s expectations of a new Captain

Old 15th Aug 2018, 17:55
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
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A tonne remaining at destination would give you 10 mins on the 777-200. Bear in mind that it costs you around 4% of the fuel in fuel burn to carry it per hour...essentially on a 12 hr flight back from Singapore, you will burn nearly half your extra fuel just carrying it.
Apologies for thread creep and teaching anyone to suck eggs.
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 23:35
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Originally Posted by CaptainSouth View Post
Just as a matter of interest, for the next sector it will cost 572 kg to carry the extra 1000 kg of fuel. So it DOES matter whether you carry extra fuel because you feel like it. It is also why companies would rather get 1 diversion from 100 sectors with min op fuel, than no diversions with 100 flights carrying extra fuel.
CaptainSouth has nailed it. It is business with the intent of making money. 1 diversion would cost no where near as much as a week of pilots taking just 500kg of fuel per sector.
F/O's need to grow up and Captains need to show some leadership.

F/O is a Co-Pilot, not a Co-Captain. Input is expected, absolute acceptance of your way of doing things shouldn't be.
Most of the F/O's attitude towards fuel stems from Captains, so you only have yourselves to blame for our attitude at times.

I expect my Captain to show leadership, guidance that will help me develop as a pilot. Not to dump your personal sh!t and hatred of the company on me. Nor am I interested in your "tricks" and "techniques" for screwing the company.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 08:04
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I expect my Captain to show leadership, guidance that will help me develop as a pilot. Not to dump your personal sh!t and hatred of the company on me. Nor am I interested in your "tricks" and "techniques" for screwing the company.
Best post I've read in a while and totally agree
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 09:20
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I can’t even imagine what a tip or technique for screwing the company could be.....can you give an example?
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 21:08
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
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- Flying slow to pad your time/pay without regard to schedule

- Making sure you depart late every time to worsen the stats (no benefit to oneself, just screwing the company)
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 21:50
  #86 (permalink)  
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Fly inefficiently; too high, too low, too fast, too slow.

Take extra fuel just ‘because’.

Purposefully exceed FTLs.

Leave late, leave too early.

Configure way before you need to.

Leave the APU on when it’s not needed.

Flog the engines.

How many more do you want?


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Old 17th Aug 2018, 09:41
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Flying slow to pad your time/pay without regard to schedule
Seen it once in the seven years I was an F/O
- Making sure you depart late every time to worsen the stats (no benefit to oneself, just screwing the company)
I’ve never seen it or heard of it happening.
Take extra fuel just ‘because’.
Never seen it.
Purposefully exceed FTLs.

Leave late, leave too early.
Never seen it.
Configure way before you need to.
Seen it scores ....hundreds of times but thought it was misjudgement, lack of skill.
Leave the APU on when it’s not needed.
Seen that quite a few times but I’ve always put it down to laziness/ ignorance.
Flog the engines.
Never seen it.
How many more do you want?
No more thanks. I can see we work in pilot groups that have different cultures and luckily for me I haven’t experienced yours.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 14:20
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan View Post

Leave the APU on when it’s not needed.
I've experienced the opposite far more often, turning the APU off when it's needed, to save 30kg of fuel. I had a captain turn it off in Ibiza when it was 35 degrees outside. If it's not a comfortable temperature for myself or the cabin crew, it's staying on.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 14:26
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post
I've experienced the opposite far more often, turning the APU off when it's needed, to save 30kg of fuel. I had a captain turn it off in Ibiza when it was 35 degrees outside. If it's not a comfortable temperature for myself or the cabin crew, it's staying on.

Ahhhh, bless! Did you get a sweat on, princess?! That nasty captain!

Actually I quite agree - leave the bugger on.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 15:13
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Bit like single engine taxi with the remaining engine revving it’s balls off! Bravo!
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 15:48
  #91 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by framer View Post
No more thanks. I can see we work in pilot groups that have different cultures and luckily for me I haven’t experienced yours.
Not sure how you work that out unless you’re assuming that this actually occurs.

It’s quite simple really - you know what you’re supposed to do to achieve an efficient, cost effective, operation so if you're aim was to be inefficient and expensive then you would do the opposite.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 21:15
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
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For fuel, I normally ask the other pilot(s) what they think and take the biggest number. I feel if I don’t, I might as well say: “I value your input... just not very much."

At the end of the day, I’m not that concerned about the fuel on board if it’s safe and legal (and all the people I fly with are aware of the commercial implications), I'm much more interested in what happens when we start running out of it and that can happen irrespective of how much you took in the first place. When I got my command, I remember the manager handing me the four stripes advising me to put some extra on over the next few trips, even if I felt I didn’t need it, just to leave more thinking time until I bedded in.

To answer the OP, having done ~10,000hrs in the RHS, I would expect a new captain to lead the operation but utilise the skills and experience of those around them. There’s no shame, in fact quite the reverse, in asking others who may have better knowledge in a particular situation, e.g. the FO has 5,000hrs on type and the captain has 50. If they wish the aircraft to be operated in a particular way inside SOPs, then they should make this clear, not rely on mind-reading from the RHS. I would also expect them to be confident but not overly so and interact in an open way with all their colleagues both on and off the flight deck.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 22:23
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by framer View Post
<div style="text-align:left;">I plan to land with 1 hr 20 mins in tanks on a nice day in the 737-800.<br />A normal missed approach with vectors sees me doing the second shot with one hours fuel onboard. ( it uses 20 mins of fuel but takes 12 minutes). A flap non-normal would see me doing the high speed approach with low fuel lights on and approx 50 mins of fuel onboard.</div>
<br />Hmm.......<br />Low amber is 907kg in each main tank. if you don't use 2500kg /hr as a rule of thumb (inc alt, diversion etc. It might end at best with the cojo passing the brown trousers!
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 23:30
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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<br />Hmm.......<br />Low amber is 907kg in each main tank. if you don't use 2500kg /hr as a rule of thumb (inc alt, diversion etc. It might end at best with the cojo passing the brown trousers!
Can you try again please, I don’t understand you.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 23:44
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by framer View Post

Can you try again please, I don’t understand you.
Simple rule of thumb,. covers most scenarios
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 04:44
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Ok. Still not quite sure what you’re trying to say. I use 2400kg/hr or 40kg/min (737-800) in most circumstances but obviously not all. Is that what you were angling at? I just want to make sure I’m not missing out on learning something.
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 06:24
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Originally Posted by framer View Post
I can’t even imagine what a tip or technique for screwing the company could be.....can you give an example?
Well.

I've flown in a few different outfits on narrow bodies ans TP's and seen some shit going on.

Taking extra fuel for NO reason, just for personal comfort. Then in cruise realizing that the fuel was way too much and unable to defeat that decision just burning the fuel (fast and low), instead of bringing it home (like someone mentioned before). EVEN when well ahead of sched. Then just to appeal the bean counters banging it in on a lower configuration and "save" 10kg.

Flying fast to get a free transport home for the cabin.

Flying slow for a higher allowance.

I remember a chief pilot who took extra only when there was a real reason to lift it. Then what ever was going on, he just "produced" some fuel wisely en-route. Fuel is an expensive resource and our friend. This is a business.

Back to topic.
Expectations from the other pilot; just an healthy CRM. And it starts at the briefing. But there no democracy in the end.

TOS
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Old 20th Aug 2018, 16:52
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: OFCR
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As an FO, I'd expect the new upgrade to be a competent operator and I would offer everything I have in order to ease his/her job.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 15:56
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England
Posts: 180
So what happens when you legally can't carry your hypothetical fuel? Does the chance of such probelms disappear because you are at Max LDG Weight?
In my particular company's operations it happens infrequently (but isn't unheard of). I ask operations if they want me to offload bags, pax or both to enable us to take the fuel we require. Alternatively, I tell them to plan me a tech-stop, so we can uplift the fuel that we require.
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Old 25th Aug 2018, 20:02
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nirvana..HAHA..just kidding but,if you can tell me where it is!
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This thread tends to indicate what a hopeless bunch of despots we are,in the Left seat....
F/Os..please DONT be influenced..
lol...
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