Captain’s expectations of a new FO.
Gender Faculty Specialist
What you mean to say is use airmanship. Which is learnt from experience and not taught in the sim or a classroom.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny enough, some guys have good airmanship since day 1 and some will never get it! I'm with you TPE Flyer. I think the attitude plays a big role. Many times some Fos will make annoying inputs when I'm PF like: '' Do you want me to request heading to the right? '' For an isolated CB clearly visible in day time 100nm ahead... Like dude! If I want a heading I will ask you! and we are still so far out so what's the stress?! I'm PF, I'm not blind and I have no intention to scare my passengers so in due time I will request deviation. Or some guys will request descend when I'm PF just because they see the TOD arrow like 10 miles ahead... Like WTF? What about asking me first? It would never come to my mind to do such a thing especially as a Fo. Some of them they just don't get the concept. Many many times, Fos do stuffs that I'm thinking in my head: '' Jeez, I would never have done such a thing as a Fo!'' I have been on the left for 1 year and 3 months, and I can count in one hand maybe 2 at best, the time I have given a gentle verbal input to the Fos and it was purely because it would have triggered a QAR ( for instance they keep max reverse below 70kt IAS, at 45 kt it triggers a red QAR.) or we would not have been stabilized. But yet, some Fos, will give me like 10 inputs or annoying suggestions during one sector... And to be clear I'm not saying it's an FO thing, they are a minority in fact. I had the same, actually much more issues being on the right with douchebag on the left treating me like the third AP, spoon feeding me all the time during the approach and stressing like hell due weather... I guess some of them don't trust me or get those bad habits from those unconfident captains.. Lol
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Madrid
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't need to be told that the trigger for brake fans is 100 degrees when I ask you to put them on at 80 degrees because I have a 3km taxi ahead of me at MTOW. Thats called situational awareness.
I don't need a lecture because I am using and have briefed NAPD 1 for strategic reasons when the SOP says 1000/1000. Thats called Command Jugdement.
As a matter of fact, yes, you need to be told these things. This is literally the FO's job description. Now the FO might not recognise why you might be doing them, they do know when or how these things need to be done. Accept that sometimes flight crew aren't on the same page, you might need to explain the reasoning behind your actions, and carry on. For your FO to tell you the things that you might not know which might endager safety, you need to accept that you will sometimes, most times, receive comments on things that you do know. It is part of the job. But approaching an FO's remarks with the mentality of "I don't need to be told this" or "lectured on that" destroys CRM in the flight deck. You want your FO's to speak up and be critical, and not be known as that Captain whose FO's just sit there and look nice.
Safe flying
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: EU
Age: 35
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gee, you must be so fun to fly with.
As a matter of fact, yes, you need to be told these things. This is literally the FO's job description. Now the FO might not recognise why you might be doing them, they do know when or how these things need to be done. Accept that sometimes flight crew aren't on the same page, you might need to explain the reasoning behind your actions, and carry on. For your FO to tell you the things that you might not know which might endager safety, you need to accept that you will sometimes, most times, receive comments on things that you do know. It is part of the job. But approaching an FO's remarks with the mentality of "I don't need to be told this" or "lectured on that" destroys CRM in the flight deck. You want your FO's to speak up and be critical, and not be known as that Captain whose FO's just sit there and look nice.
Safe flying
As a matter of fact, yes, you need to be told these things. This is literally the FO's job description. Now the FO might not recognise why you might be doing them, they do know when or how these things need to be done. Accept that sometimes flight crew aren't on the same page, you might need to explain the reasoning behind your actions, and carry on. For your FO to tell you the things that you might not know which might endager safety, you need to accept that you will sometimes, most times, receive comments on things that you do know. It is part of the job. But approaching an FO's remarks with the mentality of "I don't need to be told this" or "lectured on that" destroys CRM in the flight deck. You want your FO's to speak up and be critical, and not be known as that Captain whose FO's just sit there and look nice.
Safe flying
Sometimes it baffles me how hard can it be to give a simple explanation of doing something nonstandard.
Take this example of the brake fans. If you as a captain know that you will be needing brake fans for a 3km taxi at MTOW, why not mention it when a non-standard item is asked for? It would literally take seconds of effort. I would be surprised if any F/O at this point would question the judgement. He might learn a great lesson there too, with little to no effort needed from the LHS.
-M
Gee, you must be so fun to fly with.
As a matter of fact, yes, you need to be told these things. This is literally the FO's job description. Now the FO might not recognise why you might be doing them, they do know when or how these things need to be done. Accept that sometimes flight crew aren't on the same page, you might need to explain the reasoning behind your actions, and carry on. For your FO to tell you the things that you might not know which might endager safety, you need to accept that you will sometimes, most times, receive comments on things that you do know. It is part of the job. But approaching an FO's remarks with the mentality of "I don't need to be told this" or "lectured on that" destroys CRM in the flight deck. You want your FO's to speak up and be critical, and not be known as that Captain whose FO's just sit there and look nice.
Safe flying
As a matter of fact, yes, you need to be told these things. This is literally the FO's job description. Now the FO might not recognise why you might be doing them, they do know when or how these things need to be done. Accept that sometimes flight crew aren't on the same page, you might need to explain the reasoning behind your actions, and carry on. For your FO to tell you the things that you might not know which might endager safety, you need to accept that you will sometimes, most times, receive comments on things that you do know. It is part of the job. But approaching an FO's remarks with the mentality of "I don't need to be told this" or "lectured on that" destroys CRM in the flight deck. You want your FO's to speak up and be critical, and not be known as that Captain whose FO's just sit there and look nice.
Safe flying
Ever heard of the phrase “sharing the mental model”?
Turning up habitually early is a no no. When I walk into a crew room and find my FO at the briefing table with all 4 OFPS printed out and sections of the NOTAMS/WX all highlighted for
me at report time I now know that the FO
is not compliant with the FTL scheme in a company where pilot fatigue is a major issue. Unfortunately said FO’s think this is how to get along in said airline due to the culture. No. Try to think for yourself. If there isn’t enough time provided we take the time required and to hell with the schedule. Turning up early covers over the problems.
me at report time I now know that the FO
is not compliant with the FTL scheme in a company where pilot fatigue is a major issue. Unfortunately said FO’s think this is how to get along in said airline due to the culture. No. Try to think for yourself. If there isn’t enough time provided we take the time required and to hell with the schedule. Turning up early covers over the problems.
* flying with a Captain that “hogs” the flight plans, doesn’t involve the FO, and is close to retirement (although in that case the FO is a little stuck between doing his job and having a bearable day)
* having had plenty of rest, traffic was light, no queue at security and arrived 20 mins early. Are they going to wait for you to turn up to start? Of course not
* being someone who has been burned before with 56 pages of FCO NOTAMS... 😂
* just someone who wants to be (note - doesn’t HAVE to be) early and prepared. Maybe it was not min rest from last nights late ALC, for the first time in ages
* etc.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“ find my FO ...” says it all.
whats he supposed to do , wait outside until report time to fit your cynical and jobsworth view of the role.
i pity the poor bugger that gets four sectors with that attitude
whats he supposed to do , wait outside until report time to fit your cynical and jobsworth view of the role.
i pity the poor bugger that gets four sectors with that attitude
Only half a speed-brake
Funny enough, some guys have good airmanship since day 1 and some will never get it! I'm with you TPE Flyer. I think the attitude plays a big role. Many times some Fos will make annoying inputs when I'm PF like: '' Do you want me to request heading to the right? '' For an isolated CB clearly visible in day time 100nm ahead... Like dude! If I want a heading I will ask you! and we are still so far out so what's the stress?! I'm PF, I'm not blind and I have no intention to scare my passengers so in due time I will request deviation. Or some guys will request descend when I'm PF just because they see the TOD arrow like 10 miles ahead... Like WTF? What about asking me first? It would never come to my mind to do such a thing especially as a Fo. Some of them they just don't get the concept. Many many times, Fos do stuffs that I'm thinking in my head: '' Jeez, I would never have done such a thing as a Fo!'' I have been on the left for 1 year and 3 months, and I can count in one hand maybe 2 at best, the time I have given a gentle verbal input to the Fos and it was purely because it would have triggered a QAR ( for instance they keep max reverse below 70kt IAS, at 45 kt it triggers a red QAR.) or we would not have been stabilized. But yet, some Fos, will give me like 10 inputs or annoying suggestions during one sector... And to be clear I'm not saying it's an FO thing, they are a minority in fact. I had the same, actually much more issues being on the right with douchebag on the left treating me like the third AP, spoon feeding me all the time during the approach and stressing like hell due weather... I guess some of them don't trust me or get those bad habits from those unconfident captains.. Lol
Come on. man. They trying to prove themselves in your eyes. Being pro-active. Showing they think ahead. Being assistive to relieve you of the mundane task of flying, so that you can focus on being the Master. You are their natural role-model, having made it to LHS so quick especially. Are they overdoing it - most likely yes! Your choice of language leaves enormous room for character development.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After several years since posting this original question, it’s been great fun re-reading the replies. It’s clear 99% of the replies came from legends who were keen for a naive NTL FO to succeed and I thank you for the advice. I have to say the best advice came from JPJP who demonstrated the type of pilot I did not wish to become and pleased to say I haven’t.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Asia
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't need to be told that the trigger for brake fans is 100 degrees when I ask you to put them on at 80 degrees because I have a 3km taxi ahead of me at MTOW. Thats called situational awareness.
I don't need a lecture because I am using and have briefed NAPD 1 for strategic reasons when the SOP says 1000/1000. Thats called Command Jugdement.
I shouldn't have to repeat myself when I say don't change the cruise speed while we are bumping a long in TB at out OPT ALT (which happens to be pur REC MAX) with a very small margin to MMO. Thats called safety.
I don't need to be told that the trigger for brake fans is 100 degrees when I ask you to put them on at 80 degrees because I have a 3km taxi ahead of me at MTOW. Thats called situational awareness.
I don't need a lecture because I am using and have briefed NAPD 1 for strategic reasons when the SOP says 1000/1000. Thats called Command Jugdement.
I shouldn't have to repeat myself when I say don't change the cruise speed while we are bumping a long in TB at out OPT ALT (which happens to be pur REC MAX) with a very small margin to MMO. Thats called safety.
communication is basic skills.
Gender Faculty Specialist
.