Captain’s expectations of a new FO.
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You can't expect anyone to show up early for report let alone new first officers, nobody has a right to dictate this to any member of the crew. All I would expect is a good knowledge of SOPs and be open to a little bit of advice. The only person responsible for one's training and development is the first officer himself. Everything else will grow with experience.
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Don’t be arrogant, don’t allow yourself to become lazy.
Everyday try to do something better than yesterday.
Accept and embrace you don’t know it all and never will.
when you get 1000 hrs read this again, when you get your third stripe read this again.
Remember you can have a great day out AND do it the right way.
When you have a tough day, look at the sun rise/set, the beautiful views. The fact you get to play with such a machine and forget about company politics and remember why you put so much effort into becoming a pilot in the first place.
Everyday try to do something better than yesterday.
Accept and embrace you don’t know it all and never will.
when you get 1000 hrs read this again, when you get your third stripe read this again.
Remember you can have a great day out AND do it the right way.
When you have a tough day, look at the sun rise/set, the beautiful views. The fact you get to play with such a machine and forget about company politics and remember why you put so much effort into becoming a pilot in the first place.
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4runner, sorry but no, the captain cannot dictate to anyone or any member of his crew to turn up early for report, he/she isn't their "captain" until they report for duty. If I was a first officer and a captain told me to turn up early for report I'd tell them where to go, luckily I don't have that issue anymore. I grow rather tired of hearing SSCMs telling their colleagues to "turn up early". You sound like the type of captain every first officer dreads seeing on their roster. Good for you.
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4runner, sorry but no, the captain cannot dictate to anyone or any member of his crew to turn up early for report, he/she isn't their "captain" until they report for duty. If I was a first officer and a captain told me to turn up early for report I'd tell them where to go, luckily I don't have that issue anymore. I grow rather tired of hearing SSCMs telling their colleagues to "turn up early". You sound like the type of captain every first officer dreads seeing on their roster. Good for you.
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I had this one Captain miffed at me for not showing up 15 min earlier to print the flight package. He didn't even say hello. I was still at least 5 min earlier than check in, mind you, and was as usual on minimum rest.
He didn't have time to finish his sentence that I was out, to get a coffee, just to return 7 seconds before official check-in time.
It was not the most entertaining duty of my career but hey, if that's how some people want to play it, be my guest.
He didn't have time to finish his sentence that I was out, to get a coffee, just to return 7 seconds before official check-in time.
It was not the most entertaining duty of my career but hey, if that's how some people want to play it, be my guest.
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True; and, moreover, even after report it's still severely incorrect that the captain can dictate whatever he wants. I'm puzzled that anyone would say that.
All too common when working out of base with Ryanair. Trying to take the third turn past the secret chalk mark then being stopped by security because the code for the door in the brief was three months out of date was par for the course.
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Yes jwscud your quite right! In Shannon when out of base on early’s I always had to turn up 20mins earlier than normal at one of the departure gates to exit airside to the crewroom as I never quite knew when the security guard would do his/her rounds to let me out.....always left standing pressed up against the glass waiting like an exhibit in the zoo!
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You know how as an F/O you hate being told how to operate the aircraft by the Captain all the time.
Well Captains hate the same thing.
So instead of instead of trying to prove how good you are by quoting chapter and verse to the Captain, how about ask why he uses the technique he uses sometimes.
You will learn one of 2 things.
Either an alternative way of operating the aircraft, Or a way NEVER to operate the aircraft.
Well Captains hate the same thing.
So instead of instead of trying to prove how good you are by quoting chapter and verse to the Captain, how about ask why he uses the technique he uses sometimes.
You will learn one of 2 things.
Either an alternative way of operating the aircraft, Or a way NEVER to operate the aircraft.
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You know how as an F/O you hate being told how to operate the aircraft by the Captain all the time.
Well Captains hate the same thing.
So instead of instead of trying to prove how good you are by quoting chapter and verse to the Captain, how about ask why he uses the technique he uses sometimes.
You will learn one of 2 things.
Either an alternative way of operating the aircraft, Or a way NEVER to operate the aircraft.
Well Captains hate the same thing.
So instead of instead of trying to prove how good you are by quoting chapter and verse to the Captain, how about ask why he uses the technique he uses sometimes.
You will learn one of 2 things.
Either an alternative way of operating the aircraft, Or a way NEVER to operate the aircraft.
Last edited by Vessbot; 22nd Aug 2018 at 14:19.
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Disagree, if the Captain is doing something against a chapter and verse (which sounds like a matter of procedure, and not technique), he needs to cut it out. It is the FO's job to point out the error and put a stop to it. Additionally, the Captain should stop justifying his behavior by attributing the conflict to the FO's motivations (trying to look good) and take responsibility for himself.
As an F/O, not surprisingly you have clearly missed the point. The "technique" you were taught by a training Captain, might not be the "technique" I was taught by my training Captain.
The naivety of your statement clearly emphasises my point. No 2 pilots operate the aircraft exactly the same way every time.
What descent profile do you use? What about below 10,000ft? When cleared for an ILS, do you are arm the APPR immediately or wait until you are within the capture region of the ILS (as per manufacturer's guidance)? At what altitude do you take gear on an ILS? Do you activate approach phrase everytime, of do you let the plane activate it by itself when it over fly's the psuedo waypoint?
Every question just asked is open to technique or personal judgement based on circumstances. YOUR way is not the ONLY way.
When your a Captain being hassled over trivial crap by the F/O all day you might understand.
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Ever heard the phrase, "1more than 1 way to skin a cat"? There are plenty of ways to operate the aircraft within the framework of a companies Policies and SOP's.
As an F/O, not surprisingly you have clearly missed the point. The "technique" you were taught by a training Captain, might not be the "technique" I was taught by my training Captain.
The naivety of your statement clearly emphasises my point. No 2 pilots operate the aircraft exactly the same way every time.
What descent profile do you use? What about below 10,000ft? When cleared for an ILS, do you are arm the APPR immediately or wait until you are within the capture region of the ILS (as per manufacturer's guidance)? At what altitude do you take gear on an ILS? Do you activate approach phrase everytime, of do you let the plane activate it by itself when it over fly's the psuedo waypoint?
Every question just asked is open to technique or personal judgement based on circumstances. YOUR way is not the ONLY way.
When your a Captain being hassled over trivial crap by the F/O all day you might understand.
As an F/O, not surprisingly you have clearly missed the point. The "technique" you were taught by a training Captain, might not be the "technique" I was taught by my training Captain.
The naivety of your statement clearly emphasises my point. No 2 pilots operate the aircraft exactly the same way every time.
What descent profile do you use? What about below 10,000ft? When cleared for an ILS, do you are arm the APPR immediately or wait until you are within the capture region of the ILS (as per manufacturer's guidance)? At what altitude do you take gear on an ILS? Do you activate approach phrase everytime, of do you let the plane activate it by itself when it over fly's the psuedo waypoint?
Every question just asked is open to technique or personal judgement based on circumstances. YOUR way is not the ONLY way.
When your a Captain being hassled over trivial crap by the F/O all day you might understand.
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Are all of these questions spelled out in "chapter and verse?" If not, then they're technique, not procedure; they're also not what I'm talking about, which is procedure spelled out in black and white with no discretion left to the pilots. Maybe you were originally thinking of technique and misspoke with the "chapter and verse" quip, and if so then I agree with you on your examples; but it immediately reminded me of the squishy justifications that pilots will come up with to justify anything. Give them an inch in discretion and they'll take a mile.
And I am not talking about Black and White Procedure either. Read my previous post, everyone of those examples can be flown with different techniques within the framework of SOP.
In any event, you will understand my point when you become a Captain and realise there is more to operating an aircraft than nice landings, selfies and trying to unlock the pants of every flight attandant.
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TPE.All Training Captains on the planet Earth SHOULD be teaching the same/identical methods to operate their jet based upon the written information contained within the FCOMs (what we do) and the FCTM (how we do it).After doing this training stuff since 1990 it depresses me each time I come across pilots who have been trained to operate Boeings and Airbus using some TCs personal methods.Follow the FCTM!!
In the various situations highlighted above there is often room to make variations from the method stated in the FCTM.This does not mean a pilot is not following SOP at all.We cant be that rigid.The statement "what descent profile do u use" is quite a flippant statement.There is ONE profile and it is in the FCTM.When outside factors take u outside this profile then adjust.......
In the various situations highlighted above there is often room to make variations from the method stated in the FCTM.This does not mean a pilot is not following SOP at all.We cant be that rigid.The statement "what descent profile do u use" is quite a flippant statement.There is ONE profile and it is in the FCTM.When outside factors take u outside this profile then adjust.......
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I would expect a new FO to enjoy the flight as much as I do. Not to hesitate to fly the aircraft manually when convenient to build his confidence on the machine, to share his experience and to ask questions; I would be more than happy to answer and if I don't know we would check in the books together or ask on PPRuNe xD. I expect him to be relax but to be assertive and call my attention in case I'm doing something unsafe or stupid. I believe we can always learn from our colleagues regardless of their experience. But I also expect him to comply with the SOP and not to break my nuts when I'm flying unless it's unprofessional or safety related obviously. I always let the FOs fly the way they want, so I expect the same treat.
I expect him to be respectful and a good professional also. What grinds my gears for example is when I'm PF and I go to the toilet, as soon as I close the door, I can hear the engines spooling up... Cause he wants to go home early so he accelerates without telling me to gain 3 min of flight time and burn 100 kg extra fuel when we are 25 min ahead of schedule... Well done.
I expect him to be respectful and a good professional also. What grinds my gears for example is when I'm PF and I go to the toilet, as soon as I close the door, I can hear the engines spooling up... Cause he wants to go home early so he accelerates without telling me to gain 3 min of flight time and burn 100 kg extra fuel when we are 25 min ahead of schedule... Well done.
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. I expect him to be relax but to be assertive and call my attention in case I'm doing something unsafe or stupid. I believe we can always learn from our colleagues regardless of their experience. But I also expect him to comply with the SOP and not to break my nuts when I'm flying unless it's unprofessional or safety related obviously. I always let the FOs fly the way they want, so I expect the same.
I don't need to be told that the trigger for brake fans is 100 degrees when I ask you to put them on at 80 degrees because I have a 3km taxi ahead of me at MTOW. Thats called situational awareness.
I don't need a lecture because I am using and have briefed NAPD 1 for strategic reasons when the SOP says 1000/1000. Thats called Command Jugdement.
I shouldn't have to repeat myself when I say don't change the cruise speed while we are bumping a long in TB at out OPT ALT (which happens to be pur REC MAX) with a very small margin to MMO. Thats called safety.
