Time to Command...
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BA generally as follows:
SH LGW 6-8 years.
SH LHR 8-10 years
LH LHR 18+ years
There can be variations on occasion. SH LHR commands were available to anyone qualified with a pulse a few years ago (under two years) but have since adjusted back upwards. I believe LGW may currently be less than above. LH has been pretty constant for the past few years, varying only by a year or so. In BA, the seniority/age demographic effectively controls the LH commands (currently about 1600/4100).
SH LGW 6-8 years.
SH LHR 8-10 years
LH LHR 18+ years
There can be variations on occasion. SH LHR commands were available to anyone qualified with a pulse a few years ago (under two years) but have since adjusted back upwards. I believe LGW may currently be less than above. LH has been pretty constant for the past few years, varying only by a year or so. In BA, the seniority/age demographic effectively controls the LH commands (currently about 1600/4100).
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BA generally as follows:
SH LGW 6-8 years.
SH LHR 8-10 years
LH LHR 18+ years
There can be variations on occasion. SH LHR commands were available to anyone qualified with a pulse a few years ago (under two years) but have since adjusted back upwards. I believe LGW may currently be less than above. LH has been pretty constant for the past few years, varying only by a year or so. In BA, the seniority/age demographic effectively controls the LH commands (currently about 1600/4100).
SH LGW 6-8 years.
SH LHR 8-10 years
LH LHR 18+ years
There can be variations on occasion. SH LHR commands were available to anyone qualified with a pulse a few years ago (under two years) but have since adjusted back upwards. I believe LGW may currently be less than above. LH has been pretty constant for the past few years, varying only by a year or so. In BA, the seniority/age demographic effectively controls the LH commands (currently about 1600/4100).
Big variation.. always a worrying sign in terms of lifestyle etc... guys and girls hanging on in RHS to wait for LH Command
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Way back in the very early days of the B747 with BA I remember having a beer with a young B747 FO who told me that for lifestyle reasons he planned to stay RHS until he qualified for consideration for LHS long haul and expected to wait at least seventeen years since leaving Hamble(spl?) before he got his opportunity.
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BA also has different pay scales for long haul and short haul. So the pay differential at 10 years would be circa £18k, but a difference in allowances. So say £15k. After tax (at 40%, ignoring the 100k issue) £173 per week, before factoring in possible increases in childcare costs, petrol, etc etc.
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I did some interviewing last year for an airline advertising that rare thing .. a sponsored medium jet type rating. The candidates were all approximately 200 hrs TT , and had just completed an MCC/JOC course.
One candidate did well in the group exercise, and came across as competent, qualified, and personable. In short, a good prospect.
At the "have you any questions for us ? " stage of the interview he asked : "what's the time to command ?". This resulted in sideways glances between the interviewers.
The airline binned his application. He didn't get any further.
One candidate did well in the group exercise, and came across as competent, qualified, and personable. In short, a good prospect.
At the "have you any questions for us ? " stage of the interview he asked : "what's the time to command ?". This resulted in sideways glances between the interviewers.
The airline binned his application. He didn't get any further.
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I personally would put that application close to the top after hearing that. If a new fresh faced F/O is motivated and focused on achieving their command from day one, then they should be light years ahead of their peers when it comes to preparation, once a potential command course is on the horizon.
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I personally would put that application close to the top after hearing that. If a new fresh faced F/O is motivated and focused on achieving their command from day one, then they should be light years ahead of their peers when it comes to preparation, once a potential command course is on the horizon.
A 200 hour F/O aiming to be the best bloody F/O in the airline is a completely different beast, and would be most welcome in any airline worth their salt.
One need to know the place to be and how to do the assigned job before progressing. The job of a F/O and the job of a Cpt is different.
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Is there such a thing as a 200hr F/O who doesn't want to be a captain? Surely, if such a person exists, they should be encouraged to see their potential.
The old fashioned dinosaur who is suggesting that it's wrong to want a command are exactly the sort of person who caused TFN for KLM, or any other situation where the grumpy old captain has oppressed the F/O because he didn't deem them to be worthy.
They ought to be ashamed.
The old fashioned dinosaur who is suggesting that it's wrong to want a command are exactly the sort of person who caused TFN for KLM, or any other situation where the grumpy old captain has oppressed the F/O because he didn't deem them to be worthy.
They ought to be ashamed.
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Wrong. If you had ever flown with 200 hr F/O's who from day one aspire to be Cpt's, you would know why.
A 200 hour F/O aiming to be the best bloody F/O in the airline is a completely different beast, and would be most welcome in any airline worth their salt.
One need to know the place to be and how to do the assigned job before progressing. The job of a F/O and the job of a Cpt is different.
A 200 hour F/O aiming to be the best bloody F/O in the airline is a completely different beast, and would be most welcome in any airline worth their salt.
One need to know the place to be and how to do the assigned job before progressing. The job of a F/O and the job of a Cpt is different.
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I did some interviewing last year for an airline advertising that rare thing .. a sponsored medium jet type rating. The candidates were all approximately 200 hrs TT , and had just completed an MCC/JOC course.
One candidate did well in the group exercise, and came across as competent, qualified, and personable. In short, a good prospect.
At the "have you any questions for us ? " stage of the interview he asked : "what's the time to command ?". This resulted in sideways glances between the interviewers.
The airline binned his application. He didn't get any further.
One candidate did well in the group exercise, and came across as competent, qualified, and personable. In short, a good prospect.
At the "have you any questions for us ? " stage of the interview he asked : "what's the time to command ?". This resulted in sideways glances between the interviewers.
The airline binned his application. He didn't get any further.
completely agree, massive shame. When I joined my first airline it was discussed also. Sets clear career progression and was told during the process they were looking for people who would make command one day. Cant believe someone would be rejected for being keen and asking those sort of questions. May be best he didn't get in, surely wouldn't be able to handle the sky god mentality
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completely agree, massive shame. When I joined my first airline it was discussed also. Sets clear career progression and was told during the process they were looking for people who would make command one day. Cant believe someone would be rejected for being keen and asking those sort of questions. May be best he didn't get in, surely wouldn't be able to handle the sky god mentality
It may have something to do with the eagerness with which this candidate asked his first and only question. Successful candidates asked about salary, basing, time spent away from base etc, before asking the time to command question.
He was perceived as having the wrong priorities. From several hundred original applicants, they were looking for a small final number. The airline could afford to be choosy.
My own airline promoted low hour FO's to the LHS.
Three hours after completing his final command check, one was seen wandering around Tescos in full Captain's uniform.
Might have been worse I suppose, could have been Poundland ... or Weatherspoons..
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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The captain held responsible for the TFN crash was one of the new generation and a training manager I believe, Falcon20, far from a dinosaur.
I think it is worth differentiating between a F/O who thinks they are ready for the LHS when they are not and a F/O who wants to be ready for the LHS and is keen to develop. Managing the former is naturally challenging but it's certainly not impossible to help influence a change of mindset, from the former to the latter. I used to be a trainer in a couple of previous companies and I always enjoyed non training flights with young new F/Os, who were already released to the line but were still keen to learn and push themselves further, rather than simply doing what was expected, despite still being a competant F/O.
