Time to Command...
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Time to Command...
We all know that a short time to Command doesn't equal a good airline. A generalisation but its undoubtedly still valid. No point in having a quick Command thats not worth the agro:
What is the time to Command in your airline? Both Long Haul and Short Haul ballpark? Any country, any airline...
TUI Airways UK
B787 = 16 Years
B737 = 6 Years
What is the time to Command in your airline? Both Long Haul and Short Haul ballpark? Any country, any airline...
TUI Airways UK
B787 = 16 Years
B737 = 6 Years
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I don’t think anyone should place too much emphasis on these figures as they are merely a snap shot of what happened this year. This year was significant because TUI increased its long established and static fleet size by 3 aircraft and to crew this, commands have momentarily gone down to the figures quoted. But that’s not an accurate snap shot of TUI. After this year, the time to command will go back towards its long term trend line of 10+ years.
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Its highly relevant. Pilots really don't understand the technical relevance of these metrics. TUI was 16 years for any command and thats now firmly under 10 years for the foreseeable
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We all know that a short time to Command doesn't equal a good airline. A generalisation but its undoubtedly still valid. No point in having a quick Command thats not worth the agro:
What is the time to Command in your airline? Both Long Haul and Short Haul ballpark? Any country, any airline...
TUI Airways UK
B787 = 16 Years
B737 = 6 Years
What is the time to Command in your airline? Both Long Haul and Short Haul ballpark? Any country, any airline...
TUI Airways UK
B787 = 16 Years
B737 = 6 Years
Asia - from not flying a plane ever to command is possible in 5 years, that’s tight but possible.
More the norm I would say 7 ish.... that’s 18 months for initial, then a type rating, then 3-5 years as an FO and then Captain.
Its becoming more the norm than anything else.
Then I’m told there are places it’s even less.
Ahhhh lucky is a Bus Bus in relatively benign environments.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not having a go at any of these guys, it’s just the way it’s become. Do I agree? If done correctly I don’t have an issue problem is it’s not, it’s all a box ticking excercise these days.
This is why guys go on LWOP, furlough etc to get the chance to have a play in the left seat, albeit it a low cost bus...
More the norm I would say 7 ish.... that’s 18 months for initial, then a type rating, then 3-5 years as an FO and then Captain.
Its becoming more the norm than anything else.
Then I’m told there are places it’s even less.
Ahhhh lucky is a Bus Bus in relatively benign environments.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not having a go at any of these guys, it’s just the way it’s become. Do I agree? If done correctly I don’t have an issue problem is it’s not, it’s all a box ticking excercise these days.
This is why guys go on LWOP, furlough etc to get the chance to have a play in the left seat, albeit it a low cost bus...
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Its an interesting global statistic - zero to Captain could be doable with military style training of the right candidates but the industry doesn't train like that.
The overal theme in most airlines is the inexperience in the Co-Pilot seat is compensated for by competence and experience in the LHS.. would be an interesting Insurance Company assessment for premiums. Its going to get ugly out there
The overal theme in most airlines is the inexperience in the Co-Pilot seat is compensated for by competence and experience in the LHS.. would be an interesting Insurance Company assessment for premiums. Its going to get ugly out there
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@Iggy - 2.5 years from 0 hours? Surely that can't be right? If we assume initial training is 1.5 years, you're saying theres people in the LHS with 1 years line flying experience? How does the ATPL licence work over there? In EASAland, you couldn't physically get the hours to 'unfreeze' your ATPL to be eligible for command.
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@am111 I think he meant 0 hours on type... So once you finished your type rating, in 2.5 years you'll get at least 2000 hours (assuming 900h per annum), pretty enough to unfreeze the atpl and get hours towards command.
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I figured thats what Iggy meant but Global Aviator mentioned 5 years "from not flying a plane ever". Ryanair are boasting 3 years to command so that's not significantly different...
As aircraft become closer to DRONES the less the experience level will become.
I think scary as you cannot buy experience, problem is that sh@t hits the fan so little these days so many get away with it.
Still many runway excursions etc, however imagine if we were still driving without glass. It would be mayhem.
Yes the world is changing, technology improving, however without - Sully, Mr Gimli Glider (apologies for being lazy looking up name), and a few others......... ouch. Oh it’s ok then you have a brand new 737 swim next to a runway in Bali for pushing limits, an A320 end up...... then there is still the Air France 330...... plus many more.
I love flying glass, even in GA beasts now, however those initial years of a six pack have allowed me to earn the keg I now wear..... I actually think that would be a great aviation quote!
I think scary as you cannot buy experience, problem is that sh@t hits the fan so little these days so many get away with it.
Still many runway excursions etc, however imagine if we were still driving without glass. It would be mayhem.
Yes the world is changing, technology improving, however without - Sully, Mr Gimli Glider (apologies for being lazy looking up name), and a few others......... ouch. Oh it’s ok then you have a brand new 737 swim next to a runway in Bali for pushing limits, an A320 end up...... then there is still the Air France 330...... plus many more.
I love flying glass, even in GA beasts now, however those initial years of a six pack have allowed me to earn the keg I now wear..... I actually think that would be a great aviation quote!
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I meant 2.5 years as in elapsed time since starting the TR fresh outta high school 
with minimal hours and that deer in the headlights look until barking orders wearing a adolf moustache from the left seat of a 320.
with minimal hours and that deer in the headlights look until barking orders wearing a adolf moustache from the left seat of a 320.
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I did some interviewing last year for an airline advertising that rare thing .. a sponsored medium jet type rating. The candidates were all approximately 200 hrs TT , and had just completed an MCC/JOC course.
One candidate did well in the group exercise, and came across as competent, qualified, and personable. In short, a good prospect.
At the "have you any questions for us ? " stage of the interview he asked : "what's the time to command ?". This resulted in sideways glances between the interviewers.
The airline binned his application. He didn't get any further.
One candidate did well in the group exercise, and came across as competent, qualified, and personable. In short, a good prospect.
At the "have you any questions for us ? " stage of the interview he asked : "what's the time to command ?". This resulted in sideways glances between the interviewers.
The airline binned his application. He didn't get any further.
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Nope. However, there is a lot to say about being oneself judge. There is a system for progression, mainly based in people with greater experience and knowledge getting payed to judge who is and who is not ready to take the next step. It has been like this for decades, this thing of having cadets with upgrade course dates is new.
And curiously enough, most of the times involves money.
And curiously enough, most of the times involves money.