Things are getting interesting at RYR for Cadets
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There is a cadet salary at AL but the new joiners also get from day 1 a salary, final salary pension, sector pay, performance pay, uniform, carpark, all training included, food and water, overnight allowances, hotac accommodation, seniority list, union, working conditions etc etc. Incomparable to FR or any of the bottom feeders.
Also, RAT 5 the deduction is for non TR people as well. I'm far from being an apprentice but I'm not airbus type rated so would earn a 'cadet' salary.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Unless you include Easyjet, but they only recruit cadets from the space academies.
A4
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Good to know they are recruiting some real experience. In my previous post when I referred to cadets I meant 200hr fATPLs, in which case you only get into EZY through CAE, L3 or FTE.
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If you join as a direct entry non type rated (fatpl) you will only spend 1 year on the cadet salary that you mentioned. During which you will have a comparable salary to that of FR’s bond (but you don’t pay 5k upfront) and as I previously mentioned your salary is not as heavily dependent on hours flown as FR.
But you certainly wouldn’t be paying them back 30k in a reduction in salary as you hinted.
On the second year your salary will increase considerably. So I hope this clears the air.
FR’s latest bond offer is a step in the right direction but it could be better.
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May I know where you got the information from?
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IMHO, that there are many airlines out there who recruit fATPLs and pay them better, at least initially. However, there are no airlines out there who recruit anywhere near the number of fATPLs that Ryanair do. Unless you include Easyjet, but they only recruit cadets from the space academies.
Anyhow, like it or not and if you can get over your anti-Ryanair fundamentalism, you will see that Ryanair has vastly improved and is no longer the bad guy on the block. There are many other employers out there that deserve everyones scorn other than Ryanair.
Anyhow, like it or not and if you can get over your anti-Ryanair fundamentalism, you will see that Ryanair has vastly improved and is no longer the bad guy on the block. There are many other employers out there that deserve everyones scorn other than Ryanair.
Let me understand please where they have "vastly" improved. As far as I'm concerned you'll get now 200€ more per month on average. So if at all the salary has been improved, which doesn't make them a nice airline to work for. You'll get that some day maybe.
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That's what they say. In the end they'll twist and turn it as they need to not have to pay you the money. Happend before already. Wouldn't believe a single word coming out of Eddie's or Michael's mouth.
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I worked for this company long enough to know that they haven't changed a bit. And you? Recently joined two striper, super proud and letting everyone on Instagram know that you're in Ryanair?
Let me understand please where they have "vastly" improved. As far as I'm concerned you'll get now 200€ more per month on average. So if at all the salary has been improved, which doesn't make them a nice airline to work for. You'll get that some day maybe.
Let me understand please where they have "vastly" improved. As far as I'm concerned you'll get now 200€ more per month on average. So if at all the salary has been improved, which doesn't make them a nice airline to work for. You'll get that some day maybe.
As for you, perhaps you'd like to live with my family in law in SE Asia, then you'd know what a hard life is
.
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Begging for flight hours to be able to pay bills. November salary was round about 500 Euros. You wanna know what a hard life is? Getting a credit by a bank to be able to pay your bills with a contract which is not worth the paper it is written on. Yup, I know what a hard life is. Thanks to people like you, that accept crappy deals like those, our profession goes down the drain. But suit yourself. the 200 Euros extra per month will make your panties wet, while others struggle to get a real contract with a fair basic salary. Others are fighting so this contractor model stops. You'd be doing everyone a solid by accepting this. Hats off to you.
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Hypocrite. You knew the deal when you signed up, extracted what you wanted, and now suddenly it's everyone's fault except your own. It's generally the ones who fiddle the tax system and get a comeuppance who are so bitter, or who fail to make the grade (PS English is a requirement!) Over the year, contractors do pretty well once they have deducted huge amounts of training costs, at which point, if they haven't really annoyed anyone, then they generally (edit: but not always) get a contract. I'm guessing 1) You didn't get a Ryanair contract 2) you haven't been to the third world proper 3) you weren't a BALPA member?
So now us pilots are the ones fiddling the tax system? Never even try to blame the company eh? Shall we talk about the raids of german custom police? Almost destroying our careers? FYI I have the LP level 6
How's your german, italian, spanish going?How about you cut the BS? Over the year contractors do well? What about those close to bankruptcy because of two consequent months off? What about those being stuck just before line training for several months? Why are there even training costs? And you do know that deducting those training costs from social insurance charges is partly illegal?
I also read if and generally. Why does this contractor model even exist? I was offered a Ryanair-Contract, I've been in the third world (whatever that is in your mind) and I was a VC-member from the very beginning, fighting for us pilots and our profession. Where were you? Anything else?
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Hypocrite. You knew the deal when you signed up, extracted what you wanted, and now suddenly it's everyone's fault except your own. It's generally the ones who fiddle the tax system and get a comeuppance who are so bitter, or who fail to make the grade (PS English is a requirement!) Over the year, contractors do pretty well once they have deducted huge amounts of training costs, at which point, if they haven't really annoyed anyone, then they generally (edit: but not always) get a contract. I'm guessing 1) You didn't get a Ryanair contract 2) you haven't been to the third world proper 3) you weren't a BALPA member?
Could not agree more... Usually they all happy to start because they can offset all the expenses, then complain when it suits them.
Beside McGinley is out the door anyway. (End of the year) Ryanair contracts are offered to all new joiners and are available also to current pilots.
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Could not agree more... Usually they all happy to start because they can offset all the expenses, then complain when it suits them.
Beside McGinley is out the door anyway. (End of the year) Ryanair contracts are offered to all new joiners and are available also to current pilots.
Beside McGinley is out the door anyway. (End of the year) Ryanair contracts are offered to all new joiners and are available also to current pilots.
Btw I keep hearing expenses. Why are there any? Why should I be happy to pay my own hotels and transportation? You guys have a healthy mindset. Probably working on your off days before for free as well, right?
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The funny thing is that normally all those that respond "you knew what you were signing" are usually the ones that a few years later come back crying to this forum ... even more true for the case of RYR
Interesting human species...
By the way a friend of mine just joined Ryanair, he got one of those contractor contracts.... and no.... he doesn't have a clue of what he signed, his tax/social security obligations and so on
And I'm just going to throw a question: how many pilots in ryanair pilots file their tax returns in the countries they actually reside on (i.e. homebase country in >90% of the cases)? Because I know about a lot that do not...
... even more true for the case of RYRInteresting human species...
By the way a friend of mine just joined Ryanair, he got one of those contractor contracts.... and no.... he doesn't have a clue of what he signed, his tax/social security obligations and so on
And I'm just going to throw a question: how many pilots in ryanair pilots file their tax returns in the countries they actually reside on (i.e. homebase country in >90% of the cases)? Because I know about a lot that do not...
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It is the individuals responsibility to understand the applicable tax laws. Ignorance is not a defence, I do sympathise to some extent, but it's fairly well known that setting up as a limited company requires payment of both employee and employer social security - and some tax evasion was downright crooked, such as the guy who was openly bragging that he was claiming for thousands of miles positioning out of base by car, whilst actually jumpseating for free.
Guys like this get done in the end, (and he did) and then they go around swearing bloody murder. As you well know, out of base gets extra compensation for incidentals (more so now), and frankly I'd rather have that than the sometimes lousy hotels booked by the company for employees.
I'm not au fait with offsetting training against tax, but I was referring to historical ATPL costs. Again you refer to a snap shot of part of a year. It also doesn't quite add up that you were offered a contract, because if you had, all your grievances would become academic. Or was it financially beneficial to stay as a contractor (oh, the irony)? And it does seem direct contracts are becoming the norm. Even maybe local contracts in some countries, if there is anything in the rumour I heard today. Your hyperbole is deliberately obfuscatory and misleading.
PS Bilingual since childhood thanks.PPS By 3rd world, I mean sub-saharan Africa, Bangladesh, etc not peering over the fence from a Goan beach resort. I don't you think would equate sensible budgeting as a Ryanair FO with the former, if you had experienced it. Humility and honesty go a long way in this game, and your reply to maverick prime did not sit well.
Guys like this get done in the end, (and he did) and then they go around swearing bloody murder. As you well know, out of base gets extra compensation for incidentals (more so now), and frankly I'd rather have that than the sometimes lousy hotels booked by the company for employees.
I'm not au fait with offsetting training against tax, but I was referring to historical ATPL costs. Again you refer to a snap shot of part of a year. It also doesn't quite add up that you were offered a contract, because if you had, all your grievances would become academic. Or was it financially beneficial to stay as a contractor (oh, the irony)? And it does seem direct contracts are becoming the norm. Even maybe local contracts in some countries, if there is anything in the rumour I heard today. Your hyperbole is deliberately obfuscatory and misleading.
PS Bilingual since childhood thanks.PPS By 3rd world, I mean sub-saharan Africa, Bangladesh, etc not peering over the fence from a Goan beach resort. I don't you think would equate sensible budgeting as a Ryanair FO with the former, if you had experienced it. Humility and honesty go a long way in this game, and your reply to maverick prime did not sit well.
Those guys that you are talking about exist, but as you just said, it was some of them. Most of the pilots that I know in Ryanair don't have any criminal intentions.
Of course I know about it. Have you ever been out of base on short notice where you had to go in the lousiest hotel just so you don't lose any money? Or even better you actually lost money? Well, I have been. I'd rather have the company sort everything out for me. By the way, per diems would be also applicable then, you should know that.
Historical ATPL costs? So as you said you as a pilot should know about tax law. In germany you can't deduct it from the taxes, unless you can proof it is your second education.
Everyone deducted the Type Rating as you might know. Deducting a Type Rating, for which the company doesn't pay, just so you earn a decent salary. How ridiculous can it actually get?
It doesn't add up? Have you thought about the possibility that I have left the company and been offered a contract to stay? Doesn't cross your mind? My salary in November was less than 1000Euro. Sure the financial benefits were awesome...You're one bright mind aren't you.
Guys like you, accepting everything by the company and praising them, are one of the biggest problem this company has. Strike breaker on top probably. I have friends that flew all over the world and they were shocked by the stories they've heard from ryanair pilots.
Can I ask you again, how long are you in the company?
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Do you try and rile everyone around you like this at work? I've been at Ryanair a lot longer than you seem to think; several years, and I don't see the relevance anyway. Granted, Germany is one of the most harsh tax environments imaginable, so for that you have my sympathies (but still you deliberately fixate on winter pay slips). However, things do seem to be changing significantly for the better at Ryanair, (and I was a union number, pushing and voting for improvement) so I'm really pleased that it looks like FOs will get a better start at the company. While I assume you have now left, most of what you say is (hopefully) old news. At that, and so as not to flog this to death, over and out - Chill, Good luck.
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What's unhealthy is up to you to learn. Contracts like the mcginley one for example are unhealthy. But you'd probably fly for free. And don't worry about my career. I made a big step ahead and I'm enjoying every bit of it at the moment.
I have my reasons, just like many others. Again, you seem to have lived behind the moon or just have been hired from flight school.
What's unhealthy is up to you to learn. Contracts like the mcginley one for example are unhealthy. But you'd probably fly for free. And don't worry about my career. I made a big step ahead and I'm enjoying every bit of it at the moment.
What's unhealthy is up to you to learn. Contracts like the mcginley one for example are unhealthy. But you'd probably fly for free. And don't worry about my career. I made a big step ahead and I'm enjoying every bit of it at the moment.
Fixating on winter months pay and complaining about it simply shows naivety if you ask me. I always found it strange when FO’s would brag about how much they made during the summer, and then whine when the reverse was true in the winter. I use to just work out what 800hrs pay was and pay myself 800/12 worth of hours each month to cover me for months off/slow months. Anything over 800 hrs a year was a bonus at the end. Think some people need to understand you can’t do 100hrs every month of the year...
Of course I’m not advocating the employment practices there, but if you were/are a contractor, it’s not rocket science - and ending up with 500-1000euro net pay in any month, is no ones else’s fault but your own.
Of course I’m not advocating the employment practices there, but if you were/are a contractor, it’s not rocket science - and ending up with 500-1000euro net pay in any month, is no ones else’s fault but your own.
