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Spanish government declares ATPL as equivalent to a University degree

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Spanish government declares ATPL as equivalent to a University degree

Old 19th Feb 2018, 15:33
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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You did forget the part of the ATPL process which elevates the candidate to godhood.

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Old 19th Feb 2018, 16:24
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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If the 14 ATPL exams are not considered to be at degree level, and thus should not entitle the holder to a degree. How about aligning the exams with experience and brining it on line with the Qualification framework http://https://www.gov.uk/what-diffe...ication-levels.

For instance, say you join the pilot profession with the minimum of qualifications, or base line qualifications (ATPL's). Accrue experiance over many years, doing in house development course's along the way that compliment your continued growth (sim, LPC, type ratings, upgrades). At a certain level you can step onto the framework with a vocational qualification that is equivalent to a degree, or will allow you to claim points towards years of study towards a degree.

This has been implemented successfully within the military for many years, it has allowed people a very good spring board to future careers, legitimizing their years of experience.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 17:09
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
How many degrees do you have, sonic?
BS in Aviation Management, mandatory for my position.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 17:49
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BS would appear appropriate.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 18:08
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Originally Posted by sonicbum View Post
It's generally the other way around, people who got a degree but never made it as professional pilots or never went too far in their career.
Not in my experience, but in either case, it's a bit pathetic.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 18:37
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PDR1 is an example.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 18:47
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Sonic, old fruit - there are plenty of your ATPL colleagues who have agreed with me, so it clearly isn't a matter of me "not knowing what I'm talking about". You're just making a public fool of yourself.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 19:02
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Had I chosen "professional pilot" then I would have had access to the fame, fortune and hot babes, and probably still had the fast cars, but I would never have got the lettuce.
No need to comment further I believe.

Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Aerial Bus Driver, 1st Class?

OK, so there's a lot of stuff to cram - taxi drivers suffer the same (Ealing Broadway to Mornington Crescent when the yellow ball is on the blue diagonal and residential one-way streets are wild)
See above.


Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Sure, an ATPL+TR could expect a high probability of successfully flying and landing a jet in adverse weather with some systems malfunctions*, but that's a manual skill not a something involing higher education.
There is just a little bit more than that. Whenever You have 5 spare minutes have a look at the Manual of Evidence Based Training.

Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Sonic, old fruit - there are plenty of your ATPL colleagues who have agreed with me, so it clearly isn't a matter of me "not knowing what I'm talking about". You're just making a public fool of yourself.
If they are active professional pilots I respect their opinion as they know what the story is.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 19:17
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I did an engineering degree before becoming a pilot.

In no way can the cognitive effort of them compare... Flight school felt like going back to elementary school
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 15:40
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Fair enough, I would be curious to see Your reaction if Your employer brings this up at the next pay review.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 16:41
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History lesson

Many years ago the ATPL underwent a process to align it with other vocational qualifications. Many people claimed tax relief on training undertaken. The Government then disallowed that and it stopped and so did the vocational framework. We are now talking in the UK about vocational qualifications AGAIN. Its a cycle.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 16:44
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Originally Posted by sonicbum View Post
Fair enough, I would be curious to see Your reaction if Your employer brings this up at the next pay review.
Brings what up?
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 17:20
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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This comment from eduelp

Originally Posted by eduelp View Post
Flight school felt like going back to elementary school
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 18:12
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Why would he (the employer)?
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 18:40
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I suppose when it matters, I would rather someone who is a damn good pilot up at the pointy end than a member of MENSA or a First from Oxbridge.

When a relative of mine was training at a well known Spanish flight school, there were several graduates, one even with a degree in aeronautical engineering, who struggled with the sheer volume of learning and, despite being used to studying, found the course no easier than the non graduates.

Interestingly, my daughters English degree could easily have been ‘compressed’ into a one year course, rather than the three years it took. She only had lectures a handful of times a week so she was able to hold down a part time job as well (and still came away with a First) She was at a top class university but they were pretty spoon fed over what to study and how and when their essays were due. Whereas at flight school, my nephew worked 9 - 5 every day in class, then 3 - 4 hours studying in the evening. In contrast to my daughter, if he didn’t understand anything or felt he needed help, it was up to him to seek out the tutor or do his own research.

Finally, I wonder if any flight students would think about suing because they didn’t get a job at the end of the course?

Graduate loses bid to sue Oxford over 2:1 degree - BBC News
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 19:21
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
I suppose when it matters, I would rather someone who is a damn good pilot up at the pointy end than a member of MENSA or a First from Oxbridge.
No argument from me - as I have repeatedly said I support the idea that steering aluminium rates as a Profession, right up there with Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers and Accountants. Just don't try calling it a degree because (as you so plainly put it) you don't need that level of education to fly a plane.

Finally, I wonder if any flight students would think about suing because they didn’t get a job at the end of the course?

Graduate loses bid to sue Oxford over 2:1 degree - BBC News
Ooh, looky here - the kid can use google to find one single case that was never going anywhere!

What about these fifty? Or these?

Looks to be quite common actually...
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 19:50
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Fair point and mea culpa; I didn’t check my facts. It’s just that sheer arrogance of that particular graduate really stuck in my craw when I saw the BBC report.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 21:56
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Mine too. My immediate reaction was that a man more deserving of a sound horsewhipping has yet to walk this earth - if you know where he lives I'll send the gamekeeper round.

I guess my fundamental point is that if you want ATPL to be respected as a Profession (which it certainly could/should be) then seek respect for what it IS rather than trying to portray it as the one thing it isn't.

That's all
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 08:14
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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ATPL frozen is not the full ATPL

This is linking with the full ATPL not just for the Frozen one...You need pass the Subjects...true but after that: 1500TT 500 multicrew + PIC and Night...after...again a simulator to have that. As you see that Degree is just for Comercial Pilots working in a multicrew and with enough experience as PIC.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 08:34
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
I guess my fundamental point is that if you want ATPL to be respected as a Profession (which it certainly could/should be) then seek respect for what it IS rather than trying to portray it as the one thing it isn't.
I couldn’t agree more.
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