Spanish government declares ATPL as equivalent to a University degree
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If the 14 ATPL exams are not considered to be at degree level, and thus should not entitle the holder to a degree. How about aligning the exams with experience and brining it on line with the Qualification framework http://https://www.gov.uk/what-diffe...ication-levels.
For instance, say you join the pilot profession with the minimum of qualifications, or base line qualifications (ATPL's). Accrue experiance over many years, doing in house development course's along the way that compliment your continued growth (sim, LPC, type ratings, upgrades). At a certain level you can step onto the framework with a vocational qualification that is equivalent to a degree, or will allow you to claim points towards years of study towards a degree.
This has been implemented successfully within the military for many years, it has allowed people a very good spring board to future careers, legitimizing their years of experience.
For instance, say you join the pilot profession with the minimum of qualifications, or base line qualifications (ATPL's). Accrue experiance over many years, doing in house development course's along the way that compliment your continued growth (sim, LPC, type ratings, upgrades). At a certain level you can step onto the framework with a vocational qualification that is equivalent to a degree, or will allow you to claim points towards years of study towards a degree.
This has been implemented successfully within the military for many years, it has allowed people a very good spring board to future careers, legitimizing their years of experience.
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Originally Posted by sonicbum
It's generally the other way around, people who got a degree but never made it as professional pilots or never went too far in their career.
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Sonic, old fruit - there are plenty of your ATPL colleagues who have agreed with me, so it clearly isn't a matter of me "not knowing what I'm talking about". You're just making a public fool of yourself.
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Originally Posted by PDR1
Had I chosen "professional pilot" then I would have had access to the fame, fortune and hot babes, and probably still had the fast cars, but I would never have got the lettuce.
Originally Posted by PDR1
Aerial Bus Driver, 1st Class?
OK, so there's a lot of stuff to cram - taxi drivers suffer the same (Ealing Broadway to Mornington Crescent when the yellow ball is on the blue diagonal and residential one-way streets are wild)
OK, so there's a lot of stuff to cram - taxi drivers suffer the same (Ealing Broadway to Mornington Crescent when the yellow ball is on the blue diagonal and residential one-way streets are wild)
Originally Posted by PDR1
Sure, an ATPL+TR could expect a high probability of successfully flying and landing a jet in adverse weather with some systems malfunctions*, but that's a manual skill not a something involing higher education.
Originally Posted by PDR1
Sonic, old fruit - there are plenty of your ATPL colleagues who have agreed with me, so it clearly isn't a matter of me "not knowing what I'm talking about". You're just making a public fool of yourself.
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History lesson
Many years ago the ATPL underwent a process to align it with other vocational qualifications. Many people claimed tax relief on training undertaken. The Government then disallowed that and it stopped and so did the vocational framework. We are now talking in the UK about vocational qualifications AGAIN. Its a cycle.
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I suppose when it matters, I would rather someone who is a damn good pilot up at the pointy end than a member of MENSA or a First from Oxbridge.
When a relative of mine was training at a well known Spanish flight school, there were several graduates, one even with a degree in aeronautical engineering, who struggled with the sheer volume of learning and, despite being used to studying, found the course no easier than the non graduates.
Interestingly, my daughters English degree could easily have been ‘compressed’ into a one year course, rather than the three years it took. She only had lectures a handful of times a week so she was able to hold down a part time job as well (and still came away with a First) She was at a top class university but they were pretty spoon fed over what to study and how and when their essays were due. Whereas at flight school, my nephew worked 9 - 5 every day in class, then 3 - 4 hours studying in the evening. In contrast to my daughter, if he didn’t understand anything or felt he needed help, it was up to him to seek out the tutor or do his own research.
Finally, I wonder if any flight students would think about suing because they didn’t get a job at the end of the course?
Graduate loses bid to sue Oxford over 2:1 degree - BBC News
When a relative of mine was training at a well known Spanish flight school, there were several graduates, one even with a degree in aeronautical engineering, who struggled with the sheer volume of learning and, despite being used to studying, found the course no easier than the non graduates.
Interestingly, my daughters English degree could easily have been ‘compressed’ into a one year course, rather than the three years it took. She only had lectures a handful of times a week so she was able to hold down a part time job as well (and still came away with a First) She was at a top class university but they were pretty spoon fed over what to study and how and when their essays were due. Whereas at flight school, my nephew worked 9 - 5 every day in class, then 3 - 4 hours studying in the evening. In contrast to my daughter, if he didn’t understand anything or felt he needed help, it was up to him to seek out the tutor or do his own research.
Finally, I wonder if any flight students would think about suing because they didn’t get a job at the end of the course?
Graduate loses bid to sue Oxford over 2:1 degree - BBC News
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes
I suppose when it matters, I would rather someone who is a damn good pilot up at the pointy end than a member of MENSA or a First from Oxbridge.
Finally, I wonder if any flight students would think about suing because they didn’t get a job at the end of the course?
Graduate loses bid to sue Oxford over 2:1 degree - BBC News
Graduate loses bid to sue Oxford over 2:1 degree - BBC News
What about these fifty? Or these?
Looks to be quite common actually...
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Fair point and mea culpa; I didn’t check my facts. 
It’s just that sheer arrogance of that particular graduate really stuck in my craw when I saw the BBC report.
It’s just that sheer arrogance of that particular graduate really stuck in my craw when I saw the BBC report.
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Mine too. My immediate reaction was that a man more deserving of a sound horsewhipping has yet to walk this earth - if you know where he lives I'll send the gamekeeper round.
I guess my fundamental point is that if you want ATPL to be respected as a Profession (which it certainly could/should be) then seek respect for what it IS rather than trying to portray it as the one thing it isn't.
That's all
I guess my fundamental point is that if you want ATPL to be respected as a Profession (which it certainly could/should be) then seek respect for what it IS rather than trying to portray it as the one thing it isn't.
That's all
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ATPL frozen is not the full ATPL
This is linking with the full ATPL not just for the Frozen one...You need pass the Subjects...true but after that: 1500TT 500 multicrew + PIC and Night...after...again a simulator to have that. As you see that Degree is just for Comercial Pilots working in a multicrew and with enough experience as PIC.
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Originally Posted by PDR1
I guess my fundamental point is that if you want ATPL to be respected as a Profession (which it certainly could/should be) then seek respect for what it IS rather than trying to portray it as the one thing it isn't.
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
Europeans love all those theoretical tests for the ATPL; asking all sorts of arcane stuff that has absolutely no value in day-to-day ops. The FAA has one test, huge multiple choice question bank. Study the bank, take test, get in the plane. I don’t see a noticeable difference in pilot success.
