Who's happy?
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: France
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Well I'm jealous of you lot! Long 4 sectors days the daily norm here at my regional employer. This week my roster included an 0430 local check in 2 days ago and finished with a 2320 check out last night before my days off. I keep hearing about the land of Red/Orange milk and honey, and I'm really pleased this life can work for some. 10 years with this lot and my passion for aviation is just a memory now and I'm looking for something new outside this industry.
All of this change a lot of how you fell happy or not.
I think Six sixty and I are working for the same airline, my November and December roster were really good. 16days off and 15 days off, Christmas 3days off, new year, holiday starting from the 27th Dec ... So far in 1 year I did only 681hr, I m having average of 57hr a month ... Much better than my previous airline where I was regularly flying 80/90hr !
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Well I'm jealous of you lot! Long 4 sectors days the daily norm here at my regional employer. This week my roster included an 0430 local check in 2 days ago and finished with a 2320 check out last night before my days off. I keep hearing about the land of Red/Orange milk and honey, and I'm really pleased this life can work for some. 10 years with this lot and my passion for aviation is just a memory now and I'm looking for something new outside this industry.
Flocks, it also seemed to depend which seat you were in as well.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Working for a european LCC, stable roster, nice network, and possibility to be home based soon again thanks to multiple bases. No overnight.
Enough money to arrange holidays in family, gift for childrens, ... good work life balance,
standing-by to be home based.
What else ?
Happy !
Enough money to arrange holidays in family, gift for childrens, ... good work life balance,
standing-by to be home based.
What else ?
Happy !
I think that's a fair point. As a pilot in most airlines you accept that you will be working weekends and holidays and earlies and lates.
If I wanted Xmas or NY off that badly I would have chosen a different career. If every weekend off was that important I would not have been a pilot.
I think working into your day off should attract a payment for a full days work. The reason being there are many hours of disruption and delays which don't go into your day off, which don't exceed duty limits, and cause all manner of inconvenience to any evening plans.
Working earlies particularly last summer I would regularly (at least half the time) be getting home 3-4 hours later than I was rostered to be off duty. No kind of disruption compensation for crew. The number of cancelled plans or even just being able to have dinner with the missus or see the kids before they go to bed, all of those plans scuppered with no disruption money in return...
So £500 for going 1 minute into a day off may sound very good on paper, but in reality it's not just 1 minute, but all the hundreds of other minutes that didn't attract any kind of payment. And those kind of minutes you can't refuse to work (assuming you are fit to operate)
If I wanted Xmas or NY off that badly I would have chosen a different career. If every weekend off was that important I would not have been a pilot.
I think working into your day off should attract a payment for a full days work. The reason being there are many hours of disruption and delays which don't go into your day off, which don't exceed duty limits, and cause all manner of inconvenience to any evening plans.
Working earlies particularly last summer I would regularly (at least half the time) be getting home 3-4 hours later than I was rostered to be off duty. No kind of disruption compensation for crew. The number of cancelled plans or even just being able to have dinner with the missus or see the kids before they go to bed, all of those plans scuppered with no disruption money in return...
So £500 for going 1 minute into a day off may sound very good on paper, but in reality it's not just 1 minute, but all the hundreds of other minutes that didn't attract any kind of payment. And those kind of minutes you can't refuse to work (assuming you are fit to operate)
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Joined a European fast-expanding Low-cost company almost half a decade ago and I´m happy. Skippers do about 830 a year and FO´s about 100 less I would say. Summers are busy, but winters are for the most quiet on 3/4 of the many bases. Ratio between 8 and 10+ hour days are about 65/35. Salary is ok, and we are organised. Plenty of BDO´s for those who feel for it. Massive difference from what I experienced at "the harp". I think the sweet spot for me in the future is a 80% contract. I doubt most of us in Low cost will survive being on 100% for the rest of our careers. Not looking for a new job at the moment.
As mentioned before I think happiness in the industry is a bit up and down, depending on expansion, leadership and so on.
I have been flying for almost 16 years now, and I do not envy friends and family in office-jobs at the moment. Just as we see longer hours and decline int T&C´s so do they. Most of them with no union to pull things in the opposite direction....
As mentioned before I think happiness in the industry is a bit up and down, depending on expansion, leadership and so on.
I have been flying for almost 16 years now, and I do not envy friends and family in office-jobs at the moment. Just as we see longer hours and decline int T&C´s so do they. Most of them with no union to pull things in the opposite direction....
Buttonpusher
I have to admit I'm very happy just finished 30 years 6 more to go, lots of ups and downs but more importantly to me, had more laughs than I could have ever imagined.
Kids, grandkids get to see the world and get paid for it, after reading some of your sobering experiences, I feel exceptionally lucky coming from a working class family in the UK to being at a large airline in the US.
Good luck to all of my fellow aviators !
Kids, grandkids get to see the world and get paid for it, after reading some of your sobering experiences, I feel exceptionally lucky coming from a working class family in the UK to being at a large airline in the US.
Good luck to all of my fellow aviators !
Join Date: Sep 2017
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I wasn't specifically referring to those days alone, it was the case, no longer is that work which attracted those consistent intrusions on family time and important cultural events was at least compensated. It isn't now. For the record, I have flown charter, corporate and line flying for a major carrier. I've also worked corporate, Desks have complications but they rarely run out of fuel. The sorts of targets see things like:
At every contractual 'negotiation' progressively terms and conditions were eroded, collective bargaining was effectively a trade off for any nominal (far less than real) inflation increase. It has been thus in most industries for the last 30 years.
Maybe in 1980 500 pound payments existed. Line pilots no longer get those payments, I certainly didn't. If one prefers the noble pursuit of administration, last time I checked weekends and all holidays were still free. Any wonder the industry ate its own tail; there was no longer the recompense, at least in Asia and Oceania.
Further, go and look at the wages outcomes on any major western carrier in the last twenty years and deflate it for inflation, real wage declines and erosion of terms is consistent across jurisdictions. Flying was fun the corporation and consistent erosion of terms and conditions drivien by HR/ bean counters made it far less tolerable.
- Time free of duty ought be just that. Former colleagues tell me the company slipped in a little clause which finishes them at 2300 before a day off with a 0500 sign option after the day off. As I said, limits are targets. 500 quid for a minute into a day off, good luck with that and not even a local night in your own bed.
- Paid flight credit hours but sick leave was duty hours. Go sick on a capital city return with a three hour payment, deduct seven hours from your 80 hour annual total..Do a bigger day and lose almost 1/5 of your annual sick leave budget on one day.... Certainly no longer equated to 10 days of paid sick leave like the office staff were given.
- If a flight was cancelled you don't get paid, booted and spurred completing fuel ordering, flight cancelled, thanks for coming. Duties at 0500 attracting a payment credit of 1 hour and 50 minutes, no minimum duty payment, cancel one of those sectors and the 1 hour 50 minute payment is halved.
At every contractual 'negotiation' progressively terms and conditions were eroded, collective bargaining was effectively a trade off for any nominal (far less than real) inflation increase. It has been thus in most industries for the last 30 years.
- When minimum legal rest was 10 hours arriving at 2200 local. 'Rest period' commenced at brakes parked +15 mins. Sign on the following morning was only commenced at 60 minutes before departure, pray tell how someone gets 8 hours rest when their commute time to and from a hotel (including check in) is 'rest period'?
Maybe in 1980 500 pound payments existed. Line pilots no longer get those payments, I certainly didn't. If one prefers the noble pursuit of administration, last time I checked weekends and all holidays were still free. Any wonder the industry ate its own tail; there was no longer the recompense, at least in Asia and Oceania.
Further, go and look at the wages outcomes on any major western carrier in the last twenty years and deflate it for inflation, real wage declines and erosion of terms is consistent across jurisdictions. Flying was fun the corporation and consistent erosion of terms and conditions drivien by HR/ bean counters made it far less tolerable.
Last edited by Rated De; 2nd Dec 2017 at 08:18.
short flights long nights
IM really happy..walked away from a B777 command with EK almost 3 years ago..enough was enough. Went home..decided "never look back", and completely walked away from aviation after a 35 year career.
A year ago, I was very very fortunate to be selected by the Government Railway System to be trained as a train driver. Im having a ball, you are treated very well..tremendous T and Cs, "FTLs" that make aviation FTLs look like a joke, strong union. I could go on and on. Best thing I ever did!
A year ago, I was very very fortunate to be selected by the Government Railway System to be trained as a train driver. Im having a ball, you are treated very well..tremendous T and Cs, "FTLs" that make aviation FTLs look like a joke, strong union. I could go on and on. Best thing I ever did!
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Buttonpusher
I got married to an American girl it lasted 20 years, never thought I'd marry again but I did, ended up marrying a girl that was my F/O for several months, we don't live together but have 3 houses in 3 different states to manage, but we do fly together most of the time.
Me... boss in the plane, at the layover hotel.....not so much LOL.
I left the UK after secondary school, ( Yes I failed the 11 plus) and went to flight school, I was going to go to AST in Perth but this was back in 1977 and nothing was looking good for being a pilot, ended up in Canada, then back to the US after some experience.
At such a young age the move and changes were easy to deal with.
Me... boss in the plane, at the layover hotel.....not so much LOL.
I left the UK after secondary school, ( Yes I failed the 11 plus) and went to flight school, I was going to go to AST in Perth but this was back in 1977 and nothing was looking good for being a pilot, ended up in Canada, then back to the US after some experience.
At such a young age the move and changes were easy to deal with.
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Bet you live in the biggest house on the block though !
Join Date: Oct 2004
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SOPS, I am now a senior manager in rail having come from aviation. (Started as a driver.....)
The railway is an ok place to work, with good salary and SOME reasonable terms and conditions.
But I am surrounded by people, 98% of who I would never speak to again if I left. Why? Because of the unbelievable negativity on the railway. Driven by the unions! (I am VERY experienced in working with unions).
I keep in touch with so many of my airline colleagues, and I am so jealous of the pride and passion they show for their jobs.
Aviation is a choice that becomes a hobby. Rail is a choice that becomes a chore. (Personal opinion).
Oh and certainly not a dig at SOPS, I hope you are happy and proud of your role in keeping the country moving. This is of course the purpose of the railway, the unions however, they are just looking after their business and political interests, not their members!!
The railway is an ok place to work, with good salary and SOME reasonable terms and conditions.
But I am surrounded by people, 98% of who I would never speak to again if I left. Why? Because of the unbelievable negativity on the railway. Driven by the unions! (I am VERY experienced in working with unions).
I keep in touch with so many of my airline colleagues, and I am so jealous of the pride and passion they show for their jobs.
Aviation is a choice that becomes a hobby. Rail is a choice that becomes a chore. (Personal opinion).
Oh and certainly not a dig at SOPS, I hope you are happy and proud of your role in keeping the country moving. This is of course the purpose of the railway, the unions however, they are just looking after their business and political interests, not their members!!
Well I went from Software Engineer to 737 RHS to Software Engineer.... all in the space of five years including CPL/IR!
The Grass isn't always greener on the other side as they say.
The Grass isn't always greener on the other side as they say.
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Freight dog (turboprop) on European routes. Joined 10 years ago with 1hr on type, having been cabin crew (3,5 years) and flight dispatcher (5 years).
Captain upgrade after 4,5 years. Employee contract with all the frills (2/3 of retirement and Social Security contributions paid by the Company, as per local Employment law). Roster: 2 weeks (ie 4-5 nights) ON, 1 week Reserve (5 days) or airport SBY (4 days), then 1 guaranteed week OFF (8 days). Total between 8 and 12 nights of flying per month.
All week-ends OFF (sometimes positioning downroute on Sunday PM). 6 weeks paid holiday per year. Good standard of hotels downroute (4 stars plus). I can live wherever I want in Europe (provided I can reach my base in 10 hrs)... Reasonable block hours: under 500/year.
I haven't looked back since joining. As a package, nothing compares, either on ppjn or with agencies.
Cheers
Captain upgrade after 4,5 years. Employee contract with all the frills (2/3 of retirement and Social Security contributions paid by the Company, as per local Employment law). Roster: 2 weeks (ie 4-5 nights) ON, 1 week Reserve (5 days) or airport SBY (4 days), then 1 guaranteed week OFF (8 days). Total between 8 and 12 nights of flying per month.
All week-ends OFF (sometimes positioning downroute on Sunday PM). 6 weeks paid holiday per year. Good standard of hotels downroute (4 stars plus). I can live wherever I want in Europe (provided I can reach my base in 10 hrs)... Reasonable block hours: under 500/year.
I haven't looked back since joining. As a package, nothing compares, either on ppjn or with agencies.
Cheers
Join Date: Mar 2014
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As Ryanair and AA have found out, metal doesn't move without our licenses, that's why our days off cost £500 (frankly a bargain given the service cancellation costs).
short flights long nights
SOPS, I am now a senior manager in rail having come from aviation. (Started as a driver.....)
The railway is an ok place to work, with good salary and SOME reasonable terms and conditions.
But I am surrounded by people, 98% of who I would never speak to again if I left. Why? Because of the unbelievable negativity on the railway. Driven by the unions! (I am VERY experienced in working with unions).
I keep in touch with so many of my airline colleagues, and I am so jealous of the pride and passion they show for their jobs.
Aviation is a choice that becomes a hobby. Rail is a choice that becomes a chore. (Personal opinion).
Oh and certainly not a dig at SOPS, I hope you are happy and proud of your role in keeping the country moving. This is of course the purpose of the railway, the unions however, they are just looking after their business and political interests, not their members!!
The railway is an ok place to work, with good salary and SOME reasonable terms and conditions.
But I am surrounded by people, 98% of who I would never speak to again if I left. Why? Because of the unbelievable negativity on the railway. Driven by the unions! (I am VERY experienced in working with unions).
I keep in touch with so many of my airline colleagues, and I am so jealous of the pride and passion they show for their jobs.
Aviation is a choice that becomes a hobby. Rail is a choice that becomes a chore. (Personal opinion).
Oh and certainly not a dig at SOPS, I hope you are happy and proud of your role in keeping the country moving. This is of course the purpose of the railway, the unions however, they are just looking after their business and political interests, not their members!!
