"Substitute" Pilots ?
Join Date: May 2015
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Just we need to inform Mr Ziemelis that as we have a free market he can find pilots flying heavy jets with 2000E gross salary (if he is able).
A Pilot salary is not so high because someone did him a favour. Maybe someone needs to study more the law of demand and supply. Unforunately for him we dont live in communism.
There's no way a regulator of any standard would allow this. The only way to achieve this plan would to have a whole operation; aircraft, pilots. ops staff and engineering support in reserve. Can't see that happening.
Thread Starter
Regardless of the otherworldly nature of the proposition or the slim chance of its implementation, this isn’t about manipulation of AOCs, who insures what, maintaining pilot currency, regulatory actions or anything of such mundane nature.
It’s about a plan to form a cadre of pilots to step forward and replace strikers (a rather bold move)…and the several airlines who have allegedly signed contracts to participate in said plan.
Perhaps Mr. Ziemelis is just blowing smoke; perhaps he’s not. The valuable info would be knowing which airlines so readily joined the effort. Would that influence one’s choice of potential employers ?
Privacy is an illusion. If “…several…large carriers…” have signed on to the plan, someone knows who they are.
And they should be revealed.
It’s about a plan to form a cadre of pilots to step forward and replace strikers (a rather bold move)…and the several airlines who have allegedly signed contracts to participate in said plan.
Perhaps Mr. Ziemelis is just blowing smoke; perhaps he’s not. The valuable info would be knowing which airlines so readily joined the effort. Would that influence one’s choice of potential employers ?
Privacy is an illusion. If “…several…large carriers…” have signed on to the plan, someone knows who they are.
And they should be revealed.
Last edited by bafanguy; 7th Oct 2017 at 21:18.
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"Avia Solutions Group, managing one of the largest pilot centres in Eastern Europe BAA Training, has already entered several preliminary confidential contracts with large carriers to train a number of the so called substitute pilots. These companies are ready to cover the cost of training new pilots for several years."
Or could it be a ruse to help separate budding pilots from their hard earned cash? It might fill desperate cadets' eyes with rose petals, but not captains, and the plan needs both. Could it be a ruse to boost the short-term cash flow of a training centre.
Or could it be a ruse to help separate budding pilots from their hard earned cash? It might fill desperate cadets' eyes with rose petals, but not captains, and the plan needs both. Could it be a ruse to boost the short-term cash flow of a training centre.
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An opportunist and reprehensible marketing scheme to convince pimple-faced pilot wannabes to part with their bank loan and/or parent’s money toward type training.
Airline CEO’s have no use for ‘substitute pilots’ to collaborate in undermining terms and conditions for striking pilots. Direct employment circumvention already permits rented pilots to be used immorally.
“Norwegian breaks the pilot strike in Norway by using Spain based crews” – Link:
http://www.sepla.es/en/sala-de-prens...nes-de-espana/
Airline CEO’s have no use for ‘substitute pilots’ to collaborate in undermining terms and conditions for striking pilots. Direct employment circumvention already permits rented pilots to be used immorally.
“Norwegian breaks the pilot strike in Norway by using Spain based crews” – Link:
http://www.sepla.es/en/sala-de-prens...nes-de-espana/
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Avianca allowed to bring in foreign pilots amid strike-civil aviation
https://www.reuters.com/article/colo...-idUSL2N1ME0OB
https://www.reuters.com/article/colo...-idUSL2N1ME0OB
Thread Starter
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Could it be simply that as the pilot shortage due a demographic shift of never before magnitude accelerates airline management is desperate to contain their 'labour unit cost' as low as they can?
This doom narrative is typical at most airlines (indeed corporates) as they maintain an adversarial Industrial Relations posture and huge numbers of staff specifically designed to contain wage expectations.
Michael O'Leary's (Ryanair)language until very recently was consistently condescending toward his pilots and included implied threats of cancelling leave and job losses.
This is standard adversarial labour relations.
Unfortunately for O'Leary he is now on bended knee to his pilots as the shortage bites.
Their model is set up to be the standard adversarial model to which airlines aspire.
The one glaring error in their model is that it necessitates unlimited supply.
Take the threats as just that; the beast thrashing around!
- Pilotless aircraft inside 5 years?
- Strike breaking airline pilots?
- 1989 pilot's strike threats about redundancy?
- 2011 Qantas grounding and lockout?
This doom narrative is typical at most airlines (indeed corporates) as they maintain an adversarial Industrial Relations posture and huge numbers of staff specifically designed to contain wage expectations.
Michael O'Leary's (Ryanair)language until very recently was consistently condescending toward his pilots and included implied threats of cancelling leave and job losses.
This is standard adversarial labour relations.
Unfortunately for O'Leary he is now on bended knee to his pilots as the shortage bites.
Their model is set up to be the standard adversarial model to which airlines aspire.
The one glaring error in their model is that it necessitates unlimited supply.
Take the threats as just that; the beast thrashing around!
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No, you are not alone. This is a terrible idea. It sounds as if it is a MOL scheme.
The insurers are one point, however, there is an easy way around the regulator issue. Simply register your aircraft in ireland, they do not take any look as long as the paperwork seems halfway legit and the money keeps rolling in.
Thread Starter
I've been following the replies here hoping to learn how the legal/cultural differences in the EU might play in this scenario, an admittedly far fetched one.
I don't see the sense of outrage there such a plan would produce here in the USA. Our history has produced a scab list going back 50+ years; it still exists and circulates.
As for "young pilots", would these kids understand the maelstrom any participation in this scheme would bring down upon them...or maybe it wouldn't ? Would they not be branded as scabs for life ? There's no way their choices (leading to actions) would be a secret.
They'd be crossing a picket line to fly struck flying.
Or maybe, due to legal/cultural differences, there'd be no personal/career penalty to pay over there ?
Help me understand this.
I don't see the sense of outrage there such a plan would produce here in the USA. Our history has produced a scab list going back 50+ years; it still exists and circulates.
As for "young pilots", would these kids understand the maelstrom any participation in this scheme would bring down upon them...or maybe it wouldn't ? Would they not be branded as scabs for life ? There's no way their choices (leading to actions) would be a secret.
They'd be crossing a picket line to fly struck flying.
Or maybe, due to legal/cultural differences, there'd be no personal/career penalty to pay over there ?
Help me understand this.
Last edited by bafanguy; 12th Oct 2017 at 10:48.
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I've been following the replies here hoping to learn how the legal/cultural differences in the EU might play in this scenario, an admittedly far fetched one.
I don't see the sense of outrage there such a plan would produce here in the USA. Our history has produced a scab list going back 50+ years; it still exists and circulates.
I don't see the sense of outrage there such a plan would produce here in the USA. Our history has produced a scab list going back 50+ years; it still exists and circulates.