Pan European companies and employment law

[speedrestriction]

ECJ in Luxembourg has handed down a relevant ruling for anyone who is based in a country not housing their company's HQ:

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/201...oyment-ruling/

[Chronus]

The result is Ryanair share price takes a tumble.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ts-5-1.3220922

[B737C525]

Upholded

By the godliness of Bishop Brennan!

[airbuske]

Hi, what will be the result of this new ruling??

Will workers in all the Ryanair bases now get a local contract?

In places as Belgium this means: 13th month, right to join a union, index adjustments of salary every year, child support, pensions, all different ways of deducting taxes (mortgage, transport,...), payed sickdays, collective labour agreement etc

MOL can say what he wants but this is a BIG deal for all RYR employees.

Of course the competition will like the changes as well...

Toughts?

[sarah737]

It just says that if you have a conflict with your employer it falls under the jurisdiction of the country in which you are based.

[airbuske]

Than it will rain courtcases on Ryanair. Every pilot/cc will want his sick/holidays paid, etc. At the end it is all about the money.

In some other countries the local law might not be very favorable compared to Ireland but actually most european countries offer more rights than Ryanair gives now.

[directmisbi]

Yes, this is a gamechanger. And not only that. Present and previous "employees" can now reclaim sick pay, holiday pay, child support and other benefits that "normal" workers receive by law depending on the country of your base.

[RAT 5]

How does 'the base' thing affect the self-employed whose companies are based in Dublin. They are employed by their own entity in Ireland. Surely that issue has to be trashed & burned first so the rest can be sorted out afterwards. I haven't read the whole publication, yet, so perhaps that is covered. I thought RYR had stated they would not pay local taxes etc. because the crews 'worked on Irish territory' and they could be moved to anywhere in the network, so any base was only temporary. Foolishly the great self-employed never challenged that but lay down and asked to be whipped some more. If this ruling is so clear and unequivocal why could not IALPA & BALPA have not achieved this years ago? The worms are squirming out of the can as we watch and there will be more to this in the coming months. There is likely much grimy stuff under the carpet, which is yet to be lifted.

Of course the competition will like the changes as well...

And I always wondered why, when RYR was slagging off various governments etc for sneakily subsidising various airlines, the competition didn't highlight the dubious practices RYR were up to with reducing their crewing costs immensely with 'self-employed' pilots & CA's & engineers. If RYR were so vociferous against alleged government subsidies to their competitors why were the competitors not responding vociferously & vigorously to some of RYR's behaviour with local airport arrangements? I have always wondered why they were so meek, especially when the competitors were the likes of LH, AF/KLM, IAG & Stelios. None of them are usually afraid of having a whinge & a dig.

[sarah737]

Originally Posted by RAT 5

How does 'the base' thing affect the self-employed whose companies are based in Dublin. They are employed by their own entity in Ireland. Surely that issue has to be trashed & burned first so the rest can be sorted out afterwards. I haven't read the whole publication, yet, so perhaps that is covered. I thought RYR had stated they would not pay local taxes etc. because the crews 'worked on Irish territory' and they could be moved to anywhere in the network, so any base was only temporary. Foolishly the great self-employed never challenged that but lay down and asked to be whipped some more.

Nothing to do with self-employed.
It is about those on an Irish Ryanair contract, but working outside Ireland.

[RAT 5]

So how does it work for a BRK or Storm contractor? They are both English based companies, but not deemed to be your employer, (LoL). You are then forced to be your own employer (LoL) in a company based in Ireland. You are then supposedly 'based' in Italy/Spain/Poland/etc. but RYR supposedly thinks this is a temporary thing as they can move you anywhere at a whim. And your place of abode is a 4th country.

[Avenger]

Surely this is about "employment disputes" not simply about arguing the contract that you signed doesn't suit you anymore, or you feel you should get the same T+Cs as the local bank manager etc. Can't see this will change anything regarding the existing employment contract and new starters can sign on the dotted line.. or not as they so wish. Its very difficult to succeed in an employment tribunal simply because you think the contract " should have been better"

[TheMightyAtom]

I don't think this is an accurate reflection. What happens if your contract violates these laws? One cannot simply contract outside the law.

[Avenger]

Atom, I don't think you will find any Ryanair contracts violate any laws..the differences in terms and conditions, benefits, pensions etc are another issue..but knowing MOL as we all do, the emphasis in many cases is placed on the employee to meet tax regulations etc, other "employment benefits " are employer defined and accepted as such when you sign a contract. Its a bit like saying the guy at Tesco doesn't get the same benefits as a government private secretary but both contracts are within the law..Not agreeing with the RYR stance merely saying IMHO it won't make any difference

[Avenger]

The court did not rule that the contracts should adhere to local employment conditions merely that disputes could be heard locally