Ryanair Cancelling flights!
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These 125 new pilots are ones who have already done the sims, but have been delayed months for base training. Now it's all hit the fan they've had 3 aircraft hard at it the past few days. The head of training and head of sim have even emerged from their offices to fly them! They must be getting it in the neck from above. It doesn't seem they have the training capacity to deal with what they have, I'll eat any bonus money I receive if they pull 125 guys out of thin air before the end of the year.
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Message to all pilots
Hello
I work BBC Radio 4 and we are really keen to speak to and canvass opinion the opinion of both current and recently retired pilots both from Ryanair and other companies. I'm interested in making a package on what it is like to be a pilot, the working conditions and renumeration for a (presumably) very mentally taxing job. I can speak to people via Whatsapp and all info provided would be entirely off the record unless permission is given to record. I appreciate pilots have restrictions in speaking to the media. We can also use the information and record with an actor without your details being made known.
If anyone is interested in speaking to me please can they reply to this message. My email is [email protected] and I can provide whatsapp details on request. Best wishes Bonnie
I work BBC Radio 4 and we are really keen to speak to and canvass opinion the opinion of both current and recently retired pilots both from Ryanair and other companies. I'm interested in making a package on what it is like to be a pilot, the working conditions and renumeration for a (presumably) very mentally taxing job. I can speak to people via Whatsapp and all info provided would be entirely off the record unless permission is given to record. I appreciate pilots have restrictions in speaking to the media. We can also use the information and record with an actor without your details being made known.
If anyone is interested in speaking to me please can they reply to this message. My email is [email protected] and I can provide whatsapp details on request. Best wishes Bonnie
Did someone say earlier on that there was some pressure from the CAA?
I am familiar with plate techtonics, but can someone explain what 'pressure from the CAA' actually looks like?
I am familiar with plate techtonics, but can someone explain what 'pressure from the CAA' actually looks like?
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A lot of people saying that FR pilots should grow a bigger bag and go in strike and they are too scared to upset anyone in case they lose their job. This is very true, from day one FR pilots have been in debt, from the day they set foot in the C-150 the debt starts to grow. When they buy their house in Surrey and their Porsche, the debt just grow and grow.
The miners on the other hand had nothing to lose, they had a council house and an A reg ford anglia rust bucket. They would go on to benefits which would just about match their miner's wage. There will be no way, nada, never the chance of a strike. The pilots have to be able to live in the manner they are accustomed to.
The miners on the other hand had nothing to lose, they had a council house and an A reg ford anglia rust bucket. They would go on to benefits which would just about match their miner's wage. There will be no way, nada, never the chance of a strike. The pilots have to be able to live in the manner they are accustomed to.
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Difference is pilots are responsible for people's lives, in a tin can, doing 500mph, 6 miles above the earth, OAT -56, not enough oxygen to breathe. That's why they are paid (or should be) lots of money. Anyone who thinks a pilot hasn't a lot of responsibility shouldn't be let anywhere near an aeroplane let alone have anything to do with one!
Someone I'm very close to was a miner, though he got on with his life and did very nicely! He's 70 now, fit as a fiddle and having too much fun he's no time to be bitter.
Someone I'm very close to was a miner, though he got on with his life and did very nicely! He's 70 now, fit as a fiddle and having too much fun he's no time to be bitter.
From the link I gave:
In his letter to Ryanair, Richard Moriarty, the director of consumers and markets at the CAA, said: "Whilst I appreciate that most Ryanair passengers will likely be re-routed on the same day on another Ryanair flight, many will not.
"This latter group of passengers may be better served by flying with a different airline (or indeed to or from a different nearby airport).
"The CAA's view is that Regulation EC261 requires Ryanair to offer passengers on cancelled flights alternative travel options, including flying with a different airline. Your statement yesterday runs contrary to our view and contradicts the assurances that we were given on this point by your legal team on a call at 10am yesterday morning.
"I am therefore concerned that it is Ryanair's express intention to fail to meet its obligations under Regulation EC261 and that this will give rise to significant consumer harm."
The CAA says Ryanair has since confirmed it will re-route passengers using other airlines.
I am an Irish journalist working for the national broadcaster, RTÉ.
I would like to speak, in confidence and off record, to any current or former Ryan Air pilots on this forum.
Please don't post here if you want to speak to me.
You can mail me - [email protected]
I also use two secure, end to end encrypted messaging apps
Threema where my ID is FYE3T6UM
Or on Signal where my number is 0878262587
All communication will be treated sensitively and discretely.
I would like to speak, in confidence and off record, to any current or former Ryan Air pilots on this forum.
Please don't post here if you want to speak to me.
You can mail me - [email protected]
I also use two secure, end to end encrypted messaging apps
Threema where my ID is FYE3T6UM
Or on Signal where my number is 0878262587
All communication will be treated sensitively and discretely.
To all FR pilots,
I would suggest you take this guy up on his offer. However, and I know he'll understand why, I would suggest googling RTE's contact details separately.
The name Philip Boucher-Hayes is the name of a real RTÉ journalist, experienced in consumer law/shows and has fronted both radio and TV productions for many years in Ireland.
This will all die down in a few days/weeks. I think getting in contact will enable for your story to be given a timely burst of second wind, just to keep it fresh in people's minds that the problem hasn't gone away and further cancellations could happen up to Christmas/next year.
Money talks, it's all O'Leary knows.
€10000 pay rise for all 4000 pilots is €40m. It's cheaper to pay many Senior Counsel for many years to stop you. But if future earnings project downward, it'll add to his costings and make paying you more worthwhile.
So contact RTÉ and request to speak with Philip is my advice. Sources and contacts are journalists lifeblood. They go to jail before they'd offer up names so don't worry on that front.
You need this crewing problem to remain current and in people's minds while you're negotiating with O'Leary. Some of you, contact RTÉ now.
Well, unless the CAA are mistaken, either about the means of persuasion or the outcome, this may have worked.
The article continues:
A Ryanair spokesperson said: "We have re-accommodated over 175,000 customers on other Ryanair flights – over 55% of affected customers – and more than 63,000 flight refunds have been processed (over 20% of affected customers).
"Ryanair expects to have processed over 300,000 alternative routings or refunds for customers (over 95% of affected customers) by the end of this week, within six days of customers being notified of these flight cancellations."
When pushed on whether Ryanair has agreed to use other airlines, he added: "Given the fact we have re-accommodated 75% of our affected customers and given the size of our network, it's unlikely we will need to, but will do so if necessary."
On the other hand it had opened:
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has stepped in after Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary said the budget carrier would not pay for passengers to take flights on other airlines, stating that that was not required under EU flight delay law. This comes amid widespread disruption caused by Ryanair cancelling thousands of flights.
Ryanair agrees to put passengers on other airlines' flights
If you think Moneysavingexpert isn't proper journalism and has something wrong, here is the Financial Times actually quoting O'Leary's earlier refusal
https://www.ft.com/content/a981e32e-...6-4d5a475ba4c5
What if there is a flight on another carrier that arrives earlier than the next Ryanair flight?
The UK’s Civil Aviation Authority says that if an alternative airline is flying to your destination “significantly sooner” than the next flight offered by Ryanair, you have the right to be booked on to a different airline. However, Ryanair’s chief executive Michael O’Leary has said that the airline will not book passengers on to flights with rival carriers.
“We will not pay for flights on other airlines, no. It is not part of the EU261 entitlement,” he said, referring to European passenger rights legislation covering cancelled flights.
So, just possibly, and despite your scepticism, perhaps there has been some movement.
It makes sense to me, as although it's another means of transport this happens with cross-Channel ferries and Eurotunnel - if one has problems, they send you straight to one of the others.
The article continues:
A Ryanair spokesperson said: "We have re-accommodated over 175,000 customers on other Ryanair flights – over 55% of affected customers – and more than 63,000 flight refunds have been processed (over 20% of affected customers).
"Ryanair expects to have processed over 300,000 alternative routings or refunds for customers (over 95% of affected customers) by the end of this week, within six days of customers being notified of these flight cancellations."
When pushed on whether Ryanair has agreed to use other airlines, he added: "Given the fact we have re-accommodated 75% of our affected customers and given the size of our network, it's unlikely we will need to, but will do so if necessary."
On the other hand it had opened:
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has stepped in after Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary said the budget carrier would not pay for passengers to take flights on other airlines, stating that that was not required under EU flight delay law. This comes amid widespread disruption caused by Ryanair cancelling thousands of flights.
Ryanair agrees to put passengers on other airlines' flights
If you think Moneysavingexpert isn't proper journalism and has something wrong, here is the Financial Times actually quoting O'Leary's earlier refusal
https://www.ft.com/content/a981e32e-...6-4d5a475ba4c5
What if there is a flight on another carrier that arrives earlier than the next Ryanair flight?
The UK’s Civil Aviation Authority says that if an alternative airline is flying to your destination “significantly sooner” than the next flight offered by Ryanair, you have the right to be booked on to a different airline. However, Ryanair’s chief executive Michael O’Leary has said that the airline will not book passengers on to flights with rival carriers.
“We will not pay for flights on other airlines, no. It is not part of the EU261 entitlement,” he said, referring to European passenger rights legislation covering cancelled flights.
So, just possibly, and despite your scepticism, perhaps there has been some movement.
It makes sense to me, as although it's another means of transport this happens with cross-Channel ferries and Eurotunnel - if one has problems, they send you straight to one of the others.
Last edited by aox; 22nd Sep 2017 at 20:34.
I am a retired Cathay Pacific 744 Captain. I flew with many ex Ryanair Captains who were my First Officers on big jets (B747-400). It was a transition for them and they were all very good at their jobs and an absolute pleasure to fly with.
MOL should be careful when he demeans his employees as "button pushers and overpaid taxi drivers". Your pilots are absolutely fundamental to the success of your airline you idiot. Treat them well. Respect them and give them decent contracts. Not that hard is it? Could Michael (with his €1.08 billion personal fortune) really be the next Gerald Ratner? I certainly hope so.
MOL should be careful when he demeans his employees as "button pushers and overpaid taxi drivers". Your pilots are absolutely fundamental to the success of your airline you idiot. Treat them well. Respect them and give them decent contracts. Not that hard is it? Could Michael (with his €1.08 billion personal fortune) really be the next Gerald Ratner? I certainly hope so.
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O'Leary is claiming in the Irish times that pilots are overpaid for doing a simple automated job..
The pay scales quoted are Captains €150,000 to €180,000
FOs. €80,000 to €120,000
Are these correct or is he trying to turn the punters against the pilots by making them seem like overpaid madonnas?
The pay scales quoted are Captains €150,000 to €180,000
FOs. €80,000 to €120,000
Are these correct or is he trying to turn the punters against the pilots by making them seem like overpaid madonnas?
So 900h*140,5=126450€ (900h used to be unlikely, maybe now everybody will fly those 900h, ie around 930h scheduled block = 130665€)
And you have to pay for everythinh like already mentioned (pension , social security, company id, uniform, hotels for sim, etc)
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And for the old BRK contracts:
>1500 hrs: 83€ per scheduled block hour, minus 4,5€ for the sim recurrent (.....), times 900 hours (unlikely) is 70.650€. Same as above: everything else needs to be paid from it.
Later, Stm McG paid up to 8€ psbh LESS, and there are no more BRK contracts. Therefore it is safe to conclude that over the last 10 years, FO salaries have drastically decreased and that O'Leary has been talking horse
once again.
>1500 hrs: 83€ per scheduled block hour, minus 4,5€ for the sim recurrent (.....), times 900 hours (unlikely) is 70.650€. Same as above: everything else needs to be paid from it.
Later, Stm McG paid up to 8€ psbh LESS, and there are no more BRK contracts. Therefore it is safe to conclude that over the last 10 years, FO salaries have drastically decreased and that O'Leary has been talking horse
once again.
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Difference is pilots are responsible for people's lives, in a tin can, doing 500mph, 6 miles above the earth, OAT -56, not enough oxygen to breathe. That's why they are paid (or should be) lots of money. Anyone who thinks a pilot hasn't a lot of responsibility shouldn't be let anywhere near an aeroplane let alone have anything to do with one!
Someone I'm very close to was a miner, though he got on with his life and did very nicely! He's 70 now, fit as a fiddle and having too much fun he's no time to be bitter.
Someone I'm very close to was a miner, though he got on with his life and did very nicely! He's 70 now, fit as a fiddle and having too much fun he's no time to be bitter.
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As I live and breathe:
“One of the issues that I think we have to address is that maybe we have got the pilot pay a bit on the low side,” O’Leary said. “Maybe we have pushed it a little bit far in terms of pilot pay and pilot productivity.” He added the airline would address specific issues where they come up.' (The Irish Times 23/09/17)
The paradigm shift is on.
It matters little which company or continent you are on, with the possible exception of Southwest Airlines in North America, Continental Airlines under Gordon Bethune or indeed Rob Fyfe at Air New Zealand, modern corporations seem the human input as a burdensome and troublesome pest to be marginalised, minimised and where possible out sourced.
Ryanair filled a gap and perhaps is the apex of adversarial management, small on stick big on carrot. Funnily enough, Southwest Airlines treats people with respect and has 'productivity levels' the envy of the industry.
Perhaps this style of management is due for the dustbin and like Chairman Clifford and the other Irish export at Qantas, ought be consigned to history.
“One of the issues that I think we have to address is that maybe we have got the pilot pay a bit on the low side,” O’Leary said. “Maybe we have pushed it a little bit far in terms of pilot pay and pilot productivity.” He added the airline would address specific issues where they come up.' (The Irish Times 23/09/17)
The paradigm shift is on.
- Barriers to entry (cost,acumen and time to train)
- HR/IR driven models, where statutory limits are now KPI targets
- Demographics
It matters little which company or continent you are on, with the possible exception of Southwest Airlines in North America, Continental Airlines under Gordon Bethune or indeed Rob Fyfe at Air New Zealand, modern corporations seem the human input as a burdensome and troublesome pest to be marginalised, minimised and where possible out sourced.
Ryanair filled a gap and perhaps is the apex of adversarial management, small on stick big on carrot. Funnily enough, Southwest Airlines treats people with respect and has 'productivity levels' the envy of the industry.
Perhaps this style of management is due for the dustbin and like Chairman Clifford and the other Irish export at Qantas, ought be consigned to history.
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Uber chief executive: "The truth is that there is a high cost to a bad reputation, it really matters what people think of us, especially in a global business like ours".
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https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0922/https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0922/906745-ryanair/906745-ryanair/
Last edited by FrankTed; 23rd Sep 2017 at 09:27.
I think more to the point is not that passengers will flood back (which they will) but that unfortunately MOL will be facilitated by pilots staying & flooding in.
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dangerous fatigue
How many sectors in a day for a Ryanair pilot?
I was a passenger on a return from Greece. We were late taking off and late in arrival at Stanstead. Well past midnight. It took a considerable time even to arrange steps at the front of the aircraft. To thank the pilot and as the last passenger to deplane, I approached the cockpit.
The Captain to me looked absolutely at the end of his endurance.
How many sectors had he flown that day?
I was a passenger on a return from Greece. We were late taking off and late in arrival at Stanstead. Well past midnight. It took a considerable time even to arrange steps at the front of the aircraft. To thank the pilot and as the last passenger to deplane, I approached the cockpit.
The Captain to me looked absolutely at the end of his endurance.
How many sectors had he flown that day?