Ryanair Cancelling flights!
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Originally Posted by Skornogr4phy
About the 200H cadets. When you get lied to by the promotional material fed out by the LoCo's and the respective trainin companies and start the course, what are you supposed to do? You expect people who are now £100k in debt to not sign up to those contracts and "take one for the team"? Hell no.
The whole thing is crap, but when you get taken in by a lie, who's fault is it? Is it the cadets fault for believing the lie, or CTC's fault for feeding the lie that puts them in a situation where they can't refuse the debt.
And for those who say, they should just do it the old fashioned way, try paying a mortgage nowadays on a junior flying instructors salary and see how well that goes.
The whole thing is crap, but when you get taken in by a lie, who's fault is it? Is it the cadets fault for believing the lie, or CTC's fault for feeding the lie that puts them in a situation where they can't refuse the debt.
And for those who say, they should just do it the old fashioned way, try paying a mortgage nowadays on a junior flying instructors salary and see how well that goes.
Also if it's a lie what CTC feed you then that's false advertising, they can be prosecuted for that, it's every bit the cadet's fault for just throwing money at them without researching it further to come up with an informed decision.
Starry eyed wannabes were throwing money at the flight schools in the middle of the deepest recession in living memory with little chance of a job at the end of it. You have to question the naivety. Is that the flight schools fault? Hell no.
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Well let's put it another way. Cadets could be putting money into university for no guaranteed job at the end or they could take out the debt and have a guaranteed job which will pay around £100k a year with Ryanair. Sure they will treat you like shit but honestly, the entire jobs market is rubbish, not just aviation. Sure the unemployment figures are low, but many of those jobs are zero or low hour contracts. Even if they aren't being paid as much as pilots were 15 years ago, it's a hell of a lot more than they could be getting otherwise.
For them they are getting a chance to earn big money. It's only the ones who were earning bigger money before that are complaining. I'm not saying it's right, but that's how it is.
For them they are getting a chance to earn big money. It's only the ones who were earning bigger money before that are complaining. I'm not saying it's right, but that's how it is.
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A guarenteed job
Guaranteed job with a 100k salary for new cadets.. hmmm I get your point about kids gambling blindly on uni but with Ryanair i'm not sure where you got that from.. theres nothing guaranteed in an FR contract!!!! Have you ever been charged £250 to be interviewed for a job in which case might you ever want to complain by way of looking ahead of what might be to come with that company culture? Its the F/O's that are leaving as much as the Skippers who may have earned bigger desert cash before- your very much wrong they are the only ones who are complaining. FR when you join is nothing more than slavery.
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Skornogr4phy
I think being in this industry has made you a bit cynical, the entire job market isn't rubbish. Sure, you can pay 100k to get a job in the left seat earning 40k, which if all goes well will be 100k one day. A kid I know has just landed a city job, straight out of Uni, earning 40k a year and she will work damn hard. But, she'll also get every weekend off, won't have to fight to see Xmas at home,won't suffer jetlag, will be treated with considerable respect (so long as she works hard) and has the potential to make a salary which would make a TRE wince. Her debt from Uni was 50k. This isn't that uncommon a story, the big names in London (and in the provinces) take on hundreds of folk like this every year. Why in the world would she want to be a pilot? This industry is a busted flush for the new guys, but there are plenty of opportunities out there for bright people.
I think being in this industry has made you a bit cynical, the entire job market isn't rubbish. Sure, you can pay 100k to get a job in the left seat earning 40k, which if all goes well will be 100k one day. A kid I know has just landed a city job, straight out of Uni, earning 40k a year and she will work damn hard. But, she'll also get every weekend off, won't have to fight to see Xmas at home,won't suffer jetlag, will be treated with considerable respect (so long as she works hard) and has the potential to make a salary which would make a TRE wince. Her debt from Uni was 50k. This isn't that uncommon a story, the big names in London (and in the provinces) take on hundreds of folk like this every year. Why in the world would she want to be a pilot? This industry is a busted flush for the new guys, but there are plenty of opportunities out there for bright people.
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Resident insomniac
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Skornogr4phy
I think being in this industry has made you a bit cynical, the entire job market isn't rubbish. Sure, you can pay 100k to get a job in the left seat earning 40k, which if all goes well will be 100k one day. A kid I know has just landed a city job, straight out of Uni, earning 40k a year and she will work damn hard. But, she'll also get every weekend off, won't have to fight to see Xmas at home,won't suffer jetlag, will be treated with considerable respect (so long as she works hard) and has the potential to make a salary which would make a TRE wince. Her debt from Uni was 50k. This isn't that uncommon a story, the big names in London (and in the provinces) take on hundreds of folk like this every year. Why in the world would she want to be a pilot? This industry is a busted flush for the new guys, but there are plenty of opportunities out there for bright people.
I think being in this industry has made you a bit cynical, the entire job market isn't rubbish. Sure, you can pay 100k to get a job in the left seat earning 40k, which if all goes well will be 100k one day. A kid I know has just landed a city job, straight out of Uni, earning 40k a year and she will work damn hard. But, she'll also get every weekend off, won't have to fight to see Xmas at home,won't suffer jetlag, will be treated with considerable respect (so long as she works hard) and has the potential to make a salary which would make a TRE wince. Her debt from Uni was 50k. This isn't that uncommon a story, the big names in London (and in the provinces) take on hundreds of folk like this every year. Why in the world would she want to be a pilot? This industry is a busted flush for the new guys, but there are plenty of opportunities out there for bright people.
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the daily mirror just published an article in which the chief Ryanair spokesman is quoted as saying 'we do not operate zero hour contracts'. I'm stunned. They may have stopped it but they were operating zero hour contracts for a very long time, I know because I had one! Can anyone else confirm they've read this?
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Yes nsc you chose to be a dispatcher. Life is indeed about choices. You can make a choice right now if you like! Go on google and look up 'ame'. Pay this guy 300 quid and get a class one medical. If you pass that go to your bank manager and ask him for 150k straight up because you want to be a pilot.
Assuming he doesn't laugh his ass off you then go to a flight school (you will need to pay for your accommodation, family home, meals other debts etc) and start studying for you atpl exams. Assuming you pass them you will also need to pass your ppl, cpl and multi IR flight tests. And right about then you'll have to do another medical. Imagine your financial status if you fail?
So after all that's done you'll need your last 30k to actually pay an airline to allow you to work for them.
Life is all about choices.
Assuming he doesn't laugh his ass off you then go to a flight school (you will need to pay for your accommodation, family home, meals other debts etc) and start studying for you atpl exams. Assuming you pass them you will also need to pass your ppl, cpl and multi IR flight tests. And right about then you'll have to do another medical. Imagine your financial status if you fail?
So after all that's done you'll need your last 30k to actually pay an airline to allow you to work for them.
Life is all about choices.
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There seems to be some thread drift here .....but this makes good reading. I really hope the RYR guys stick together and get a slice of the €1.3 billion profit that was made from their ( and all the other staff) efforts.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/give-us-new-contracts-pilots-tell-ryanair-bosses-as-tensions-mount-36153858.html
As the article states it's a pivotal moment .....for the future of European aviation as a career
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/give-us-new-contracts-pilots-tell-ryanair-bosses-as-tensions-mount-36153858.html
As the article states it's a pivotal moment .....for the future of European aviation as a career
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Did I mention sim checks twice per year for the rest of your career? Medical once a year then sometimes twice depending on how old you are? Line checks at random, usually once or twice per year? All of these are a chance at losing your entire income in a few minutes unless you're good enough. Don't like that kind of pressure, that kind of insecurity? Well that's not a problem find a job where you don't have to deal with those issues. I haven't a clue what's it like to be a doctor, but I know that the successful plastic surgeon ones doing fake boobs are paid a lot more than the ones treating children with cancer. Is that fair? I dunno. Maybe I would know if I had the brains to be a doctor and put silicone into breast tissue, but I don't and that means I don't tell plastic surgeons to behave in a manner I deem appropriate.
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I don't think MOL would be quite so supportive of Norwegian now...Norwegian Airlines: Ryanair's O'Leary blasts Bernie Sanders opposition to Cork/US flights - Independent.ie
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Good luck to all those trying to organise some demands!
They will never admit it publicly but FR probably realise some improvements to pilot conditions are needed when they are this short of pilots.
There are plenty of options around the world now so there is no guarantee that Air Berlin and Alitalia pilots will flock to FR in their droves, especially with such poor contracts and an absolutely toxic reputation for the way they treat their staff.
They will never admit it publicly but FR probably realise some improvements to pilot conditions are needed when they are this short of pilots.
There are plenty of options around the world now so there is no guarantee that Air Berlin and Alitalia pilots will flock to FR in their droves, especially with such poor contracts and an absolutely toxic reputation for the way they treat their staff.
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I'm also delighted that for the first time in my memory, the media is calling this for what it is.
News outlets from BBC to Bloomberg are rightly calling this a "pilot shortage." Not a single one is believing the BS about staff holidays!
News outlets from BBC to Bloomberg are rightly calling this a "pilot shortage." Not a single one is believing the BS about staff holidays!
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Hi Freehills
yes, you are quite right, and I have the utmost sympathy for the millions who were conned by Tony Blair into thinking that any old degree would unlock the door to riches.
I was trying to make the comparison between the amount of 'bright' people who get top graduate jobs outside of airlines, on a similar start salary, with the number of people who start as airline pilots each year.
Anyway, I would also like to wish the RYR working groups the best of luck in trying to improve their lot. And the BBC for once, for accurately reporting the IR issues at RYR, instead of regurgitating the RYR press releases.
yes, you are quite right, and I have the utmost sympathy for the millions who were conned by Tony Blair into thinking that any old degree would unlock the door to riches.
I was trying to make the comparison between the amount of 'bright' people who get top graduate jobs outside of airlines, on a similar start salary, with the number of people who start as airline pilots each year.
Anyway, I would also like to wish the RYR working groups the best of luck in trying to improve their lot. And the BBC for once, for accurately reporting the IR issues at RYR, instead of regurgitating the RYR press releases.
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You don't need an exceptional, Brain, as you put it, to be a doctor. Just a bloody good memory and of course dedication and a liking for sick people. Trust me, I should know, I'm a doctor
