Ryanair €10000 signing bonus!

[Icanseeclearly]

Fire and brimstone

Your comment

" if the passengers walk away at the end of the flight then it officially safe"

Is truely frightening if you are a professional pilot..

I could make every approach an unstable approach yet carry out a successful landing - that is not safe. I could fly visual approaches in IMC and make a successful landing, that's not safe. ... I could, in theory, fly an entire sector upside down and land - that is not safe....

Maybe you need to have a rethink about flight safety.

I am truly flabbergasted.

(Ps that is not an anti Ryanair rant, just a concerned professional rant)

[doniedarko]

So after 20 years of having it their own way Ryanairs unimaginative and autocratic management obviously have a crewing issue to solve. I fear their 'brilliant' 10K offer will do more to spur on the experience/brain drain that is very evident over the last few years. Coupled with the cadet pilots never even making the left seat before finding better T&C's it is a problem of Ryanair's own making. Few will weep for a company that makes in excess of 1 Billion euro profit a year but offers little in the way of pensions/profit share/pay rises/Bonus/Christmas party to their staff. ( I believe the select few of the 'Kapo' get share deals)

[Fire and brimstone]

Originally Posted by Icanseeclearly

Fire and brimstone

Your comment

" if the passengers walk away at the end of the flight then it officially safe"

Is truely frightening if you are a professional pilot..

I could make every approach an unstable approach yet carry out a successful landing - that is not safe. I could fly visual approaches in IMC and make a successful landing, that's not safe. ... I could, in theory, fly an entire sector upside down and land - that is not safe....

Maybe you need to have a rethink about flight safety.

I am truly flabbergasted.

(Ps that is not an anti Ryanair rant, just a concerned professional rant)

I do apologise, old boy - was the irony not sufficiently strong?



You are right in your assertion that 'not crashing' does not = safety.

Safety, last time I checked, is largely assured by having a sufficient quantity of well trained, well rested pilots. An operator who also listens to concerns raised by such a group of pilots is also a great boon.

I will reduce the sarcasm level next time.

[SliabhLuachra]

It seems like the constant insertion of twigs into the evergrowing force behind it is beginning to give way. Let's hope the dam doesn't come crashing down... Or maybe that would get Micky out of his delusional transient state.

[Icanseeclearly]

Understood fire,

Sometimes it's difficult to understand people's sentiments behind their posts as it's impossible to convey "tone"

Scary thing is there are some out there who may just think that way.....

[GScapture]

10 000€ signing "bonus" is just a joke and example for other companies how not to treat your current employees.

You will be end up spending that taxed 10k for expenses during your training and then you realize how twisted the whole company is. I honestly think that they are gaining more negative than positive things with this..

[B737C525]

Safety, last time I checked, is largely assured by having a sufficient quantity of well trained, well rested pilots

Any evidence for that assertion?

[6000PIC]

They would have to add another " 0 " to that signing bonus to get me interested.

[Start Fore]

I agree; another zero before it's even worth considering..

[poldek77]

Originally Posted by 6000PIC

They would have to add another " 0 " to that signing bonus to get me interested.

Here you are: 010'000 €

[Fire and brimstone]

Originally Posted by B737C525

Any evidence for that assertion?

Yes, lots - if you are being serious, and not ironic / sarcastic - perish the thought on pprune.

It is an unequivocal 'assumption' that a well rested pilot is better able to function than one who is not well rested.

If, by conventional rostering protocols you need x number of pilots, and you operate with a number lower than x, then the workforce will have to be rostered harder, affecting the first 'assumption'.

I have no idea whether the company in question has sufficient pilots, as I don't work there. I'm NOT commenting on that - or any other airline, just the maths of any given situation.

The same applies to workers in a nuclear power plant, or any business for that matter.

(Lawyers happy? Great!)

[B737C525]

F&B, I was deadly serious.

First, safety is NEVER assured. It is a label we can only apply to happy outcomes in the past. Even at the astronomical levels of successful conclusion which commercial aviation achieves, all we can ever say is that 'history teaches us that what we are about to do is very likely not to result in an undesirable outcome'.

I asked for evidence and I dare say, that you have presented opinion. I presented you with a mountain to climb, I'm afraid.

Here's why: we often forget the myriad factors which have a more profound effect than the state of the crew, because as European aircrew, they are hiding in plain sight. Give me a Boeing between Western European airports in benign weather any day, over an Antonov in storms in Nepal; the state of the crew is only one factor.

We are components in the system, nothing more. Yes, the system often blames us when things go wrong, but this is mere convenience: the weakest link in the chain fails when pressure is applied. (I often ponder AF447, TK1951, JK5022, and many other 'human error' events in which the technology had ceased to function as it should, well before the humans were challenged with rescuing the situation). But it's inverting logic to say that because we are blamed we are supreme (I appreciate you didn't make that point, but others do when rehearsing these arguments, and it doesn't hold water).

[BehindBlueEyes]

Norwegian stock prices dive on O'Leary bankruptcy comments:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...uptcy-comments

Looks like the shares recovered by the end of trading but as referred to above, is this MOL doing his usual, no publicity is bad publicity?

[JetpoweredMigrantWkr]

Originally Posted by TangoAlphad

A clickable link...

Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary comments on its future, Brexit, easyJet, Norwegian and bankrupt Air Berlin and Alitalia

Maybe he is just trying to convince FR guys the 10k is a cracking deal and be lucky Ryanair will be the one surviving airline and be glad to have a job..

MOL is trying to convince experienced crews to stay. They have an ongoing issue with losing their experienced pilots. Even though the Ryan air business model is a constant training model, they cannot replace experienced pilots fast enough. That is going to be the Ryan Air Achilles heel if they want to grow. Other airlines are simply offering better T&C. MOL has cut Ryan Air's expenses so deeply that they have nowhere to go except to offer better pay to retain crews. The 10K bonus is a one-time expense and insufficient to attract what they need IMHO.

[skyloone]

I'd suggest that by the time one gets through the reported delays in the training system, post tax you'll be well out of pocket. 10k per month during training might tempt some. I'm not up to speed on current rates but I gather current gross rates offered are lower than the old Brk agency rates. If one combines increased tax compliance and general inflation together with low industry t&c's when on line FR looks worse by the day really when compared to other operators. I've spoken to a few guys at FR who've been with the company for many years who are now looking for other options. These are guys in their chosen bases on 5/4 with direct FR contracts. Given their circumstances I was initially surprised but once they explained financial and a few work issues you can see where they're coming from. Another factor adding to discontent is FR's silence on Brexit and publicly stating it will have to remove ac from the UK. No info from management on contingency plans for example UK AOC to allow continued ops, so crews starting to make their own plans. If no home base might as well make a move elsewhere seems to be the thinking. Some guys I'm told are in hold pools for up to three other airlines.

[directmisbi]

Communication manager in norwegian, Lasse Sandaker Nielsen, now confirms that over 140 pilots from ryanair have joined since january 2017:
(sorry in norwegian)

Pilotene flykter fra Ryanair til Norwegian

[Bayerische]

I hear they are getting really desperate for pilots. Not surprising when you hear how staff are treated there.

The race to the bottom has hit bottom in Ryanair, I'm not really sure how the pay and conditions could get much worse considering the workload and responsibility of the job. I can safely say without exaggeration that if my situation ever forced my to look for a job in Ryanair, then I think it would be time to leave the aviation industry.

Unless the Ryanair pilots form a union then nothing will change. Easier said than done I know. Hopefully we will see more of their shiney new 737's parked up with no one to fly them, maybe then O'Leary and FR management will start to treat their crews with something more than contempt.

[UAV689]

It is staggering in this age of social media why by it is easy to speak with each other, that ryr employees do something!

And Admin! why do fr not have their own crew page on pprune! Much bigger than some of the other airlines that do!

[Burpbot]

Well paid lawyers and a bully culture that is the main reason they are perceived unsafe in the industry???

[CaptainSensible]

I think you'll find they tried with the RPG and its associated forums. This mysterely vanished with server upgrade being mentioned. The real reason is I suspect more sinister. Basically cross or upset RYR at your peril. Free speech and discussion is never anything they have bought into, more of a 19th Century thiefdom