Air Berlin filing for bankruptcy?
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Malév hungarian airlines
it is interesting to note that the bridge or rescue package for Malév was blocked by EU, and all previous financial assistance immediately due for repayment (under the auspices of EU competition laws) when Malev hit hard times. Thousands lost their jobs and a great symbol of the nation's pride was lost. clock forward a few years and the AB rescue package goes through. a regular customer of both MA and AB they were both great companies, and i feel equally for employees of both organizations. i do. hope that AB employees find a good way forward in whichever form that might take. it is only a pity that nothing was done, and nothing was allowed, in the case of EU operator Malev, that flew for 66 years connecting central and eastern europe to the rest. it is clearly a double standard, unless of course legislation has been updated and new policy issued, during the interim.
Last edited by voice_of_peace; 18th Aug 2017 at 20:21.
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There might be a difference. The current 150 million is not a rescue package, it is a loan that has to be repaid before any other creditor will see any money. It is not issued from the government, just secured from it. There was no prior financial help from the government at all. Which i believe is quite different to the Malev case.
The aim is to assure that the company can continue operating until it is sold off in pieces, which is expected in a few weeks. Original debt holders (mainly the unmentionable airline) will probably see less than a penny per dollar of their investment, if they do see anything at all.
The aim is to assure that the company can continue operating until it is sold off in pieces, which is expected in a few weeks. Original debt holders (mainly the unmentionable airline) will probably see less than a penny per dollar of their investment, if they do see anything at all.
It will be interesting to see when the dust has settled if there are any legal ramifications for senior management past and present. Some of the financial engineering appears to have been lets say imaginative. The sale of the frequent flyer program, which by the way is not surprisingly suffering some 'technical issues' right now is perhaps one example worthy of investigation. The only good news is that the pilots look to be very welcome in the LH group, one of the few potential win wins in this whole sorry saga.
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Well, it is the truth after all. The loan is given by the KfW, not the government itself. Yes, the KfW is secured by the government, but not entirely controlled. And the aim is to sell airberlin off. The proceeds of those sales will repay that government secured loan first, and then go to all other debt holders. As the least likely interested party has already tendered a substantial bid well in excess of the 150 million for the whole company, i would guess that that loan is a very sure bet by the KfW.
No idea if the jobs will be safe, i would think that those on the ground are not as safe as many wish, and even those on board will face some uncertainty, although i have to say it is interesting to see how much the pilots LinkedIn inboxes light up all of a sudden.
No idea if the jobs will be safe, i would think that those on the ground are not as safe as many wish, and even those on board will face some uncertainty, although i have to say it is interesting to see how much the pilots LinkedIn inboxes light up all of a sudden.
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Well, that only works if LH is paying for AB, so there is money to pay back the loan. But what if HRW will buy AB for the famos 1€, who will then pay it back? You know his concept.
The whole thing is setup, LH sent one of there managers a few month ago to AB, leasing 11 or whatever a/c for the Eurowings ops, they start a cooperation with Ethiad, now Ethiad stops sending money and LH wants to take over AB and all this with the support of Mr. Dobrindt. The only problem.....if you are flying a Dash, then you will be without a job in a few weeks.
The whole thing is setup, LH sent one of there managers a few month ago to AB, leasing 11 or whatever a/c for the Eurowings ops, they start a cooperation with Ethiad, now Ethiad stops sending money and LH wants to take over AB and all this with the support of Mr. Dobrindt. The only problem.....if you are flying a Dash, then you will be without a job in a few weeks.
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Ryanair, in the meanwhile, has found the development much to its dissatisfaction. A complaint with the German anti-trust authority has been lodged, claiming that the present arrangement only served to allow LH to take over AB sans its debts and, therefore, was in breach of German and EU anti-trust legislation.
Monty Python could not make that one up... poor ole O´Leary....
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Well, that only works if LH is paying for AB, so there is money to pay back the loan. But what if HRW will buy AB for the famos 1€, who will then pay it back? You know his concept.
Anyway, this time there is a court appointed lawyer who has to get the highest price, i doubt 1€ will cut it this time. Rumours are, he presented a bid over 1 billion €, which sounds rather high. Still, i dont see him even getting a place at the negotiating table.
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If my memory does not fail, no airline has ever been able to operate domestic services profitably since the first Lufthansa Convair 340 took off for a domestic flight in April 1955. Which has something to do with the size of the country. Exeptions have been " longhaul " routes, like Munich-Hamburg, or Stuttgart-Berlin, but only on Monday mornings and on Friday evenings, when the loads of Business class passengers were reasonable. Many knew better, many failed. Some have still to learn this. In my view it would be best, if Lufthansa gets the biggest part of the Air Berlin business. They could make the best use of slots, aircraft, and personnel. It has nothing to do with illegal take over, it would just be common sense. Having worked for a large airline, I know very well how important it is to work for a company with sound financing, good working conditions, high safety standards, and a decent pension scheme. Lufthansa would fit into this frame. I did not, by the way, work for LH.
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And yes, of course HRW is a dummy, but he doesn't say for whom.
I believe the inner german services out of berlin from Pan Am, BA and Air France were quite lucrative and very profitable, however, that was not really a normal situation, flying through the corridors over eastern germany.
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Centi, some of the ISG routes were profitable, such as BER-MUC, BER-DUS which were in the " longhaul " category. Losses were made on most of the shorter routes which were subsidised from the profits made on the longer ones. Pan Am, who were operating widebodies on the BER-FRA sector, never made any gains. Most People travelling were connecting on to other airline´s long haul flights, Pan Am only got a very small portion of the total fare. Flights were always full, with long wait lists, but the income was poor. Very poor. The only airlines making big profits on German domestic routes after WW 2 were KLM, SAS, SABENA & Swissair, who, in the sense of the word, were monopolists. And they took advantage of it.
Latest gossip is, 70 aircraft including crew to Lufthansa/Eurowings, A320ies to be put into a new (or recycled) AOC, A330 to go the SunExpress Germany, some of them to be based at Munich, 30 A320 including crew for easyJet.
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anticipating I am an aircraft owner; what would I do ? I would have taken more than 0,76% of the value per month. This is what was done. Based on the former Tax law in Germany, people invested in Aircraft Fond. AB played with it as well.
unfortunate, you cannot survive as airline if you need to pay more than 1% monthly, even when a good friend supports you. Now he is busted based by a certain reason of pricing from the black substance coming out of the ground.
Hence he lays off all the high management and hope for better times.
yepp, now I can buy cheap aircraft's and slots and hell yaa I will do so
Irony off
All above is fiction, except I bought my aircrafts, OHH was not Air Berlin, was Transaero ;-)
unfortunate, you cannot survive as airline if you need to pay more than 1% monthly, even when a good friend supports you. Now he is busted based by a certain reason of pricing from the black substance coming out of the ground.
Hence he lays off all the high management and hope for better times.
yepp, now I can buy cheap aircraft's and slots and hell yaa I will do so
Irony off
All above is fiction, except I bought my aircrafts, OHH was not Air Berlin, was Transaero ;-)
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Safelife.....nice rumour :-)
As an EasyJet pilot who is very interested in working in Germany - is there any rumour about the 30 busses going to Easy being based somewhere in Germany....
Also Munich?
As an EasyJet pilot who is very interested in working in Germany - is there any rumour about the 30 busses going to Easy being based somewhere in Germany....
Also Munich?
No details. Possibly Berlin, as it seems that 20 Airbus including crew are to be taken off ABs TXL base. But just rumours!
Still interesting since U2 was on the retreat to some degree, closing the base in HAM and not really expanding SXF.
But now the situation might have been reconsidered.
Still interesting since U2 was on the retreat to some degree, closing the base in HAM and not really expanding SXF.
But now the situation might have been reconsidered.
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I like that rumour :-)
I am based in Hamburg and did not really like the prospect of moving to a country where I do not really want to be - so any expansion in Germany is a very wellcome thought.
And Yes .... after the decision was made to close Hamburg most of us believed Berlin was next....so I am happy for both us and the Air Berlin Crew if we all get to stay in Germany on the reasonably good EasyJet German contract :-)
I am based in Hamburg and did not really like the prospect of moving to a country where I do not really want to be - so any expansion in Germany is a very wellcome thought.
And Yes .... after the decision was made to close Hamburg most of us believed Berlin was next....so I am happy for both us and the Air Berlin Crew if we all get to stay in Germany on the reasonably good EasyJet German contract :-)
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For those of you that work in AirBerlin, I lost my job in a bankruptcy and dont wish it on my worst enemy.
Looks like your old LH are looking after you, but if not, I would consider contacting RYR if you flew B 737 and want a German base.Even with any command.
I know for a fact that RYR would be interested.
I have commuted since March 1999, I do not recommend it.
5 on 4 of within 1 hr drive from home is the good life.
Looks like your old LH are looking after you, but if not, I would consider contacting RYR if you flew B 737 and want a German base.Even with any command.
I know for a fact that RYR would be interested.
I have commuted since March 1999, I do not recommend it.
5 on 4 of within 1 hr drive from home is the good life.
