Joining Ryanair
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Well, I joined as a DEC. Wish I had never entertained the idea in the first place. I agree with earlier posts, the training is not good at all. The trainers that I have experienced do not know the Boeing manuals, but are experts in Ryanair SOPs etc. In fact, Ryanair training guides apparently take precedence over the QRH. Most DECs that I joined with have either left, leaving or applying for other jobs..... all within 12 months of starting.... the proof is in the pudding as they say.
100% Agree.
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Not offering your hard working employees free bottled/filtered water is just about the most morally reprehensible any employer can do. Here we have the 6th most profitable airline in the world and the only one that doesn't give their crews free water, despite those crews busting a nut and flying 4 sectors a day working within a dried out tube. How anyone can defend that is beyond me.
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4. Not a contractor but with a few increments and in training last P60 was @£135k
That's very disingenious to say the least. If you are taking that type of money you are on an old contract not available anymore.
If you have increments then you have not moved base in 10 years. If you moved or were forced then these would be gone.
You are at the top of the training pile as a TRE again an option many DEC will probably neversee.
In one way being one of the ' old guard ' you are trapped in your current position as any move even upward would have a financial penalty.
Most DEC or cadets joining today will probably have to move airline to reach the same level as you but sometimes it seems that's what Ryr want ! ....but post Brexit I wonder if MOL will use that to adjust UK based pilot's income. All imho of course .
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All fair points dd and yes thats my situation.
Wasnt trying to be disingenuous or unbalanced.
As I said the in my list (1 - 3 anyway) they are same for all pilots.
I have been there a long time but I agree we are going backwards.
Wasnt trying to be disingenuous or unbalanced.
As I said the in my list (1 - 3 anyway) they are same for all pilots.
I have been there a long time but I agree we are going backwards.
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Things to improve here.
5/4 yes is a good Roster but most of the working days 4 sectors and between 10-12 hours Duty in the best of the case with no slots, can kill everybody. Occasionally to do 4 sectors is ok but not 90% of the time.
Keep good TREs, SFIs in the company, it is very sad to go Stansted and see some TREs with not common sense at all, evaluating Command Assestment function only of your SOPs knowledge. The y don't care how do you fly, handling skills... SOPs adherence is the most important thing here, so lots of Senior FOs after 2 years joining the company or even less decide to go out.
Salary difference between Senior FO and cadet in Ryr contract is 0 Euros. To be in the program for the Command Upgrade and get the extrapayment of 10 Euros per hour it depends only of your Base Captain, it doesn't matter your experience or loyalty to the company... please Sirs, put automatically all the seniors FOs with 1800 hours on 73 in the program. Automatically put all the OCC guys in this program, there is a MEMO which you can stay in the program 18 months before your Upgrade...
Again after the upgrade, SENIORITY LIST. I would like to see where I am for getting my home base.
Split the holidays in two blocks of 15 days. Why we have to take 1 month in one shot?... year is very long, let your people to split their holidays, it would mitigate fatigue.
Crewcontrol support and respect to all pilots. Crewcontrol should helps crews when something happened and there is an overnight in one airport and also I would like to hear "get better" when I call sick, specially when we are doing 85-100 hours per month in some airports at 40 degrees.
Try to motivate your people, moral is essensial in this business. Try to keep your experience people on board, listen them, be an open mind.... don't go to Brazil or ME for pilots and work in other direction.
Cheers
5/4 yes is a good Roster but most of the working days 4 sectors and between 10-12 hours Duty in the best of the case with no slots, can kill everybody. Occasionally to do 4 sectors is ok but not 90% of the time.
Keep good TREs, SFIs in the company, it is very sad to go Stansted and see some TREs with not common sense at all, evaluating Command Assestment function only of your SOPs knowledge. The y don't care how do you fly, handling skills... SOPs adherence is the most important thing here, so lots of Senior FOs after 2 years joining the company or even less decide to go out.
Salary difference between Senior FO and cadet in Ryr contract is 0 Euros. To be in the program for the Command Upgrade and get the extrapayment of 10 Euros per hour it depends only of your Base Captain, it doesn't matter your experience or loyalty to the company... please Sirs, put automatically all the seniors FOs with 1800 hours on 73 in the program. Automatically put all the OCC guys in this program, there is a MEMO which you can stay in the program 18 months before your Upgrade...
Again after the upgrade, SENIORITY LIST. I would like to see where I am for getting my home base.
Split the holidays in two blocks of 15 days. Why we have to take 1 month in one shot?... year is very long, let your people to split their holidays, it would mitigate fatigue.
Crewcontrol support and respect to all pilots. Crewcontrol should helps crews when something happened and there is an overnight in one airport and also I would like to hear "get better" when I call sick, specially when we are doing 85-100 hours per month in some airports at 40 degrees.
Try to motivate your people, moral is essensial in this business. Try to keep your experience people on board, listen them, be an open mind.... don't go to Brazil or ME for pilots and work in other direction.
Cheers
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Yes the base is the one that i wanted. So am pleased with that.
Do you know about the differences between a direct contract with fr and the other brokers? I guess i have a choice...
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An FO with over 3000 hours joining Ryanair? You must've been desperate.
Expect the minimum amount of sectors to get you onto the line, followed by 100 hours every 28 days for the rest of your career. You'll get four days off per week, but make sure you have a second phone, otherwise you'll be woken up at 5am every day by them begging for you to work your day off (for no extra money).
Oh, and if you don't answer your phone, you'll be taken off the roster and face disciplinary action.
Good luck!
Expect the minimum amount of sectors to get you onto the line, followed by 100 hours every 28 days for the rest of your career. You'll get four days off per week, but make sure you have a second phone, otherwise you'll be woken up at 5am every day by them begging for you to work your day off (for no extra money).
Oh, and if you don't answer your phone, you'll be taken off the roster and face disciplinary action.
Good luck!
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Vokes55 There are ways and ways of making your point. I don't work for them myself, but I can imagine feeling pretty miffed at your comments....is no way to talk about people who might have to make complex decisions regarding work/ family/ basing etc.
No wonder you got an emotional response.
No wonder you got an emotional response.
Well said Artie... exactly my thoughts... its about making ends meet at the end....
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I worked at Ryanair as a contractor for many years.
There are lots of good and bad things.
Almost everything in this tread is correct, good and bad.
In regards to discipline for not answering the phone - FACT! Totally true and has happened on many many occasions. I know from personal experience.
Also, if you answer your phone (from a withheld number) on a 'working day' and it is crewing, they are notifying you of a duty change. Even if they are moving your start time forward by 3 hours, you can not reject it or disciplinary. It is a fact and has happened to one of my ex-colleagues on his day one (he commuted weekly by car to his base so was not able to make the new brought forward report time on day 1).
Want to sleep a whole night through, then don't give Ryanair your primary phone number. Get a burner phone because they do and will call you on your days off at 4am, or even on working days. According to a Chief Pilot memo, if you don't want to be disturbed, pilots should turn their phones off, and contacting a pilot via telephone does not constitute interrupting rest. This is FACT and I believe this memo is still circulating various forums.
However, get a permanent contract in a base close to home, learn the tricks and be informed BEFORE you sign the contract, it can be an OK place to work.
One piece of advice I would give anyone looking for information on Ryanair.......go to an airport that Ryanair operate from. Sit on a bench inside the terminal and wait. At some point you'll find a pilot come along with his wheelie suitcase, pull out his jumper, and make a little nest to sleep on for a few hours whilst waiting for his 'privilege travel' flight back to his home on the other side of Europe.
Ask him directly, speak to the pilots face to face about it. You will be surprised at what a different story you get from Cadet, 2 stripe, 3 stripe and 4 stripe. Everyone has a different experience.
I left Ryanair after a long time. I didn't want to, but I was left with no alternative due to terrible contract terms and conditions. I went to another airline which is a lot nicer and more respectful, however I work more disruptive patterns and shifts here then I did at Ryanair.
The roster is good at FR, and the 'home' (read back at base) every night is really something I miss. No through the night flying and all flights on deck by 23:59 is something that you take for granted until you're doing night flights arriving at 03:00. Those extra hours are a killer.
Would I go back to Ryanair - most likely not.
However,
if I was offered the same pay and conditions as where I am now, to fly from my local airport - I would go back in a flash.
Stansted is not a normal base, and neither is Dublin. It's like comparing Gold to Tin. They not comparable to the regional 3-5 aircraft bases where you fly with the same people and have very little schedule disruption.
As everyone says, Ryanair could be the best employer in Europe. Get rid of mafia that's been at the top for an eternity, and it could be amazing.
Look at what CEO easyJet achieved in her 7 years. Ryanair management have been there since day one, and it shows how much of a cash cow that airline is for the boys at the top. I'm not sure if anyone has noticed how dictators and tyrants never give up power. Maybe there is a connection..............?
Speaking of which, If anyone gets a chance to read a book this summer, give George Orwell's Animal Farm a try. It seemed a very familiar tail, but I can't quite place my finger on it.......
Big thing, the general consensus of the employees is that management rule by fear, and the pilots BELIEVE they have no rights or the ability to stand up for themselves. After flying from Stansted and Dublin, and seeing how the Cabin Crew are treated, I can understand this mentality, but once I was shot of those big nightmare bases, it was a lot better.
All I would suggest is the following:
- Know the Ops manual inside and out
- Know the regulations inside and out
- Have a 'Ryanair phone'
- Always have a date in mind that you want to have off. If you are called to see if you can help, then 'negotiate'. (I always helped them if they helped me, and I always got what I asked for). If the don't keep their end of the bargain, tell them so next time and that is why you are refusing to help them.
- Never worry about carrying extra fuel. I always took what I wanted and never had to explain myself - EVER (but I wasn't a doosh like some of the people that take a ton for the sake of it in CAVOK).
- Always keep all memos and correspondence. Memos appear and then are 'removed' without notice
- Always keep a copy of your training records
Actually, whilst I am on this and I read somewhere earlier about Cabin Crew being grilled on SEP before each flight.
Some years ago, the management removed the CM1 ability to offload crew that the CM1 deemed unable to conduct the flight safely. The reason this was implemented (apparently) was due to the number of crew being bullied or offloaded by vindictive cabin managers who would find obscure SEP questions that no one knew the answer to, to try and catch out people they didn't like.
If a CC member is unable to give answers to procedures that must be known form memory, then why are they allowed operate.
That is like saying If on a line check I do not know my EFATO drills, I can carry on operations anyway as "everyday is a learning day".
Also, under the old IAA system of 'hours reset in April' it was possible to fly 1200 hours in a 12 month period. It's no longer possible. To be honest, I was always surprised at what was approved in the Ops manuals by the IAA.
I've had a bit of a rant, and contradicted myself a number of times, but this is the thing about Ryanair. There are good and bad things about it, and after so many years I am still unsure as to if it is a good or bad place to work. Maybe I have a bit of Stockholm Syndrome, but one thing is for sure, Ryanair is one of the safest places to be employed right now. And by employed, I don't mean on a tax beneficial agency contract! - STAY AWAY FROM THE AGENCIES!
There are lots of good and bad things.
Almost everything in this tread is correct, good and bad.
In regards to discipline for not answering the phone - FACT! Totally true and has happened on many many occasions. I know from personal experience.
Also, if you answer your phone (from a withheld number) on a 'working day' and it is crewing, they are notifying you of a duty change. Even if they are moving your start time forward by 3 hours, you can not reject it or disciplinary. It is a fact and has happened to one of my ex-colleagues on his day one (he commuted weekly by car to his base so was not able to make the new brought forward report time on day 1).
Want to sleep a whole night through, then don't give Ryanair your primary phone number. Get a burner phone because they do and will call you on your days off at 4am, or even on working days. According to a Chief Pilot memo, if you don't want to be disturbed, pilots should turn their phones off, and contacting a pilot via telephone does not constitute interrupting rest. This is FACT and I believe this memo is still circulating various forums.
However, get a permanent contract in a base close to home, learn the tricks and be informed BEFORE you sign the contract, it can be an OK place to work.
One piece of advice I would give anyone looking for information on Ryanair.......go to an airport that Ryanair operate from. Sit on a bench inside the terminal and wait. At some point you'll find a pilot come along with his wheelie suitcase, pull out his jumper, and make a little nest to sleep on for a few hours whilst waiting for his 'privilege travel' flight back to his home on the other side of Europe.
Ask him directly, speak to the pilots face to face about it. You will be surprised at what a different story you get from Cadet, 2 stripe, 3 stripe and 4 stripe. Everyone has a different experience.
I left Ryanair after a long time. I didn't want to, but I was left with no alternative due to terrible contract terms and conditions. I went to another airline which is a lot nicer and more respectful, however I work more disruptive patterns and shifts here then I did at Ryanair.
The roster is good at FR, and the 'home' (read back at base) every night is really something I miss. No through the night flying and all flights on deck by 23:59 is something that you take for granted until you're doing night flights arriving at 03:00. Those extra hours are a killer.
Would I go back to Ryanair - most likely not.
However,
if I was offered the same pay and conditions as where I am now, to fly from my local airport - I would go back in a flash.
Stansted is not a normal base, and neither is Dublin. It's like comparing Gold to Tin. They not comparable to the regional 3-5 aircraft bases where you fly with the same people and have very little schedule disruption.
As everyone says, Ryanair could be the best employer in Europe. Get rid of mafia that's been at the top for an eternity, and it could be amazing.
Look at what CEO easyJet achieved in her 7 years. Ryanair management have been there since day one, and it shows how much of a cash cow that airline is for the boys at the top. I'm not sure if anyone has noticed how dictators and tyrants never give up power. Maybe there is a connection..............?
Speaking of which, If anyone gets a chance to read a book this summer, give George Orwell's Animal Farm a try. It seemed a very familiar tail, but I can't quite place my finger on it.......
Big thing, the general consensus of the employees is that management rule by fear, and the pilots BELIEVE they have no rights or the ability to stand up for themselves. After flying from Stansted and Dublin, and seeing how the Cabin Crew are treated, I can understand this mentality, but once I was shot of those big nightmare bases, it was a lot better.
All I would suggest is the following:
- Know the Ops manual inside and out
- Know the regulations inside and out
- Have a 'Ryanair phone'
- Always have a date in mind that you want to have off. If you are called to see if you can help, then 'negotiate'. (I always helped them if they helped me, and I always got what I asked for). If the don't keep their end of the bargain, tell them so next time and that is why you are refusing to help them.
- Never worry about carrying extra fuel. I always took what I wanted and never had to explain myself - EVER (but I wasn't a doosh like some of the people that take a ton for the sake of it in CAVOK).
- Always keep all memos and correspondence. Memos appear and then are 'removed' without notice
- Always keep a copy of your training records
Actually, whilst I am on this and I read somewhere earlier about Cabin Crew being grilled on SEP before each flight.
Some years ago, the management removed the CM1 ability to offload crew that the CM1 deemed unable to conduct the flight safely. The reason this was implemented (apparently) was due to the number of crew being bullied or offloaded by vindictive cabin managers who would find obscure SEP questions that no one knew the answer to, to try and catch out people they didn't like.
If a CC member is unable to give answers to procedures that must be known form memory, then why are they allowed operate.
That is like saying If on a line check I do not know my EFATO drills, I can carry on operations anyway as "everyday is a learning day".
Also, under the old IAA system of 'hours reset in April' it was possible to fly 1200 hours in a 12 month period. It's no longer possible. To be honest, I was always surprised at what was approved in the Ops manuals by the IAA.
I've had a bit of a rant, and contradicted myself a number of times, but this is the thing about Ryanair. There are good and bad things about it, and after so many years I am still unsure as to if it is a good or bad place to work. Maybe I have a bit of Stockholm Syndrome, but one thing is for sure, Ryanair is one of the safest places to be employed right now. And by employed, I don't mean on a tax beneficial agency contract! - STAY AWAY FROM THE AGENCIES!
Last edited by jayc004; 29th Jul 2017 at 11:17.
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And not forgetting the constant sniffles and cold you'll carry around with!. Due to the vast number of people operating for RYR who are effectively ZHC (zero hour contractors), people are loathe to take time off as it hits their pocket. Therefore instead of keeping their ailments at home they bring them to work so as the rest of us may share them!
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Do you know about the differences between a direct contract with fr and the other brokers?
One operates under EU employee rules and protections, the other doesn't; you are on your own as vulnerable as a new born antelope on the Serengeti.
One operates under EU employee rules and protections, the other doesn't; you are on your own as vulnerable as a new born antelope on the Serengeti.
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A voice from the "real world"
As an outsider with not insubstantial economics and business quals , I'd say a larger percentage of the flight deck crew on here than they would be comfortable admitting wouldn't be in aviation at all if it wasn't for Ryanair.
Im sure they are not a good to work for as some legacy carriers and other locos but i doubt they give a flying frig.
Their business models super aggressive pricing actually creates demand in many cases and it's not airline managers offering low cost seats ,cos they want to, it's the public wanting it. But as I said, ryanair can actually create demand on routes by offering the super cheap seats that people who will go anywhere if it's cheap will travel on. There's evidence of towns and areas which where previously just industrial, having their tourism massively boosted as Ryanair have started flying into their airport. Some people actually now go to Girona due to Ryanair !!!!!
I'd hazard Ryanair's management fully embrace the fact that they are a "nursery" airline for many pilots and it's likely that a consciouss decision is made that while staff turnover remains below a certain point, they would likely not go out of their way to make these people feel all warm and fuzzy. I wouldn't invest in people who are just going to get the min hours to get into a ME job and leave, it would be madness.
Long and short, it's supply and demand, if they don't have to offer better t and cs, they won't, and while there is demand elsewhere for pilots and they can get people to pay their own Type ratings, they will carry on being that airline that many just use as a stepping stone and not give two hoots about it.
Trust me folks, you could have much worse jobs, for much worse money for many many more hours. Maybe remember that before being so scathing of an organization that by its existence has some of you in work elsewhere at all.
And before some smarta**e chips in, I'm fully aware they just lifted southwests business model and ran with it.
Im sure they are not a good to work for as some legacy carriers and other locos but i doubt they give a flying frig.
Their business models super aggressive pricing actually creates demand in many cases and it's not airline managers offering low cost seats ,cos they want to, it's the public wanting it. But as I said, ryanair can actually create demand on routes by offering the super cheap seats that people who will go anywhere if it's cheap will travel on. There's evidence of towns and areas which where previously just industrial, having their tourism massively boosted as Ryanair have started flying into their airport. Some people actually now go to Girona due to Ryanair !!!!!
I'd hazard Ryanair's management fully embrace the fact that they are a "nursery" airline for many pilots and it's likely that a consciouss decision is made that while staff turnover remains below a certain point, they would likely not go out of their way to make these people feel all warm and fuzzy. I wouldn't invest in people who are just going to get the min hours to get into a ME job and leave, it would be madness.
Long and short, it's supply and demand, if they don't have to offer better t and cs, they won't, and while there is demand elsewhere for pilots and they can get people to pay their own Type ratings, they will carry on being that airline that many just use as a stepping stone and not give two hoots about it.
Trust me folks, you could have much worse jobs, for much worse money for many many more hours. Maybe remember that before being so scathing of an organization that by its existence has some of you in work elsewhere at all.
And before some smarta**e chips in, I'm fully aware they just lifted southwests business model and ran with it.
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I'd hazard Ryanair's management fully embrace the fact that they are a "nursery" airline for many pilots and it's likely that a consciouss decision is made that while staff turnover remains below a certain point, they would likely not go out of their way to make these people feel all warm and fuzzy. I wouldn't invest in people who are just going to get the min hours to get into a ME job and leave, it would be madness.
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Yes. A couple of very highly respected senior TREs who i had marked down as "lifers" have just joined Jet2. Not too mention the countless FOs and Captains that are heading "oooop north" in STN.
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They don't give a 
. When I resigned, they called me to ask where I'm going to, what position and said ok ciao.
To that I replied "so that's it," you don't say thank you and you don't try to negotiate with the guys leaving."
Answer from Emma Af. "No, it's not a company policy"
. When I resigned, they called me to ask where I'm going to, what position and said ok ciao.To that I replied "so that's it," you don't say thank you and you don't try to negotiate with the guys leaving."
Answer from Emma Af. "No, it's not a company policy"
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And before some smarta**e chips in, I'm fully aware they just lifted southwests business model and ran with it.
The biggest myth out there. Both RYR & easyjet make this claim. If they claimed they had cherry-picked some of SWA's business model that would be fair. Was it not the case, a few years ago, that SWA was voted in the top 10 of best US companies to work for? Business model includes employment practices & philosophies.
Agreed that things will only improve when the supply of cadets & pax dries up. It is likely, if/when, the crew issue will arise before the pax issue.
The biggest myth out there. Both RYR & easyjet make this claim. If they claimed they had cherry-picked some of SWA's business model that would be fair. Was it not the case, a few years ago, that SWA was voted in the top 10 of best US companies to work for? Business model includes employment practices & philosophies.
Agreed that things will only improve when the supply of cadets & pax dries up. It is likely, if/when, the crew issue will arise before the pax issue.
