EK advertising on radio for pilots!
Commuting to/from the UK doesn't necessarily mean you will pay U.K. Tax.
As far as I understand it you can spend up to 90 days (or 120 days if you've not been UK resident for last 3yrs) if you have 2 ties (e.g. Family in UK and UK home). So 'IF' they were to offer a contract of 10 days off per month (for example), you won't obviously reach the 90 day limit until approx 9 months. After that I imagine holidays in somewhere other than the UK are a good idea!
I think you would also have to monitor your UK layover trips as there is a tie associated with that also.
As far as I understand it you can spend up to 90 days (or 120 days if you've not been UK resident for last 3yrs) if you have 2 ties (e.g. Family in UK and UK home). So 'IF' they were to offer a contract of 10 days off per month (for example), you won't obviously reach the 90 day limit until approx 9 months. After that I imagine holidays in somewhere other than the UK are a good idea!
I think you would also have to monitor your UK layover trips as there is a tie associated with that also.
As a starter I've been "commuting" from the mainland EU for over 15 years and am on the "radar" at both ends (i.e. two tax returns a year) ....so what follows isn't a half heard rumour, bar room/ jumpseat BS or friend of a friend rumour stuff, this is pretty much how it works, at least for the Brits working at BA, operating out of LHR or LGW but living elsewhere in the EU.
The " 90/120 days " rule and other ties referred to are used determine if you are resident in the U.K. for tax purposes..if you are deemed resident you are assessed for income tax etc on all your salary at BA....period.
OTOH if you duck under the 90/120 days criteria and avoid other ties with the UK you can be deemed "non resident for tax purposes." ...but that is not a tax free status, certainly the Brits "commuting" are still liable for full, 100%, Employees UK National Insurance (NI, the social charge on wages) and they also pay income tax on that proportion of salary deemed to have been earnt in the U.K. and UK airspace,. FWIW I spend maybe 20 - 30 full days in the UK per annum at most, have absolutely no other U.K. ties but still pay full NI and some UK income tax.
So in conclusion and to emphasise the non-resident Brits at BA I know of pay full NI and also pay U.K. Income tax on a percentage of their salary.....it is a favourable regime but it is definitely not the "no tax, no Social Charge deductions" regime some seem to think.
Now if one wants to argue about taxation at "the other end", i.e. in the country of residence that is down to local rules, the bi-lateral agreements and is a fast changing game at the moment. If you end up in one of the many countries in Europe where you pay local social charges and are assessed for "local" income tax ( which ultimately is usually reduced under the bi- lateral agreement by the amount already paid to the U.K HMRC) it can be a close call as to whether you are better off being non resident or not, so you need to do your homework and take professional advice.
Sorry to deviate the thread again with a long post but I hope that helps and hopefully we can put the tax issue at the UK end "to bed".
Last edited by wiggy; 25th Mar 2017 at 17:46.
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These issues have not been building surreptitiously amongst the pilot force but have been evident for quite a few years. A strong and effective management team would have recognised this and acted accordingly. The Company, for one reason or another, choose to turn a blind eye.
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Tay Cough
Compulsory retirement at 65 but went to Emirates Aviation College to head up the training for cadets. Served one year then his yearly contract was not renewed.
Compulsory retirement at 65 but went to Emirates Aviation College to head up the training for cadets. Served one year then his yearly contract was not renewed.
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Did I really read this right. LH captains at BA with mid seniority are earning 160-180k take home a year? Wow.....wow. Yep I am junior P1 but for me it was £64k. I know PP34 vs PP24 and early command make a big difference but still.
Would I go to the Middle East for £180k tax free and ditch out a career path at BA for a job with Emirates? Maybe but it's obviously not the money which is keeping me at BA.
Would I go to the Middle East for £180k tax free and ditch out a career path at BA for a job with Emirates? Maybe but it's obviously not the money which is keeping me at BA.
Nope, that sounds wrong to me as well. I reckon a senorish LH pp24 non trainer non manager non overtime working captain in BA might gross 160k to 180k but as I think we have now done to death that is not "take home" pay, certainly not in the U.K.....
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Only when EK and every other airline short of pilots realises that these guys don't work for money will they be able to recruit and retain sufficient numbers. For pilots, the sweet spot is probably as you pass the net £100-120 mark, if you can live where you want. Add in flexible and part time rostering with commuting rosters and a civilised FDM procedures and proper training culture and you'll have to beat applicants off with a 
stick.
But at the moment moment, there is a shortage for good reasons and it's not the money. I'll start with some. Some office **** thinks it's a good idea that their employees write nasty little reports on their colleagues. Some people can't fly and aircraft to save their lives, yet have commands of long haul, wide bodied ones for some a reason. Others want training that doesn't involve unreasonable jeopardy. Some don't like the climate where their employer is based. etc.
stick.But at the moment moment, there is a shortage for good reasons and it's not the money. I'll start with some. Some office **** thinks it's a good idea that their employees write nasty little reports on their colleagues. Some people can't fly and aircraft to save their lives, yet have commands of long haul, wide bodied ones for some a reason. Others want training that doesn't involve unreasonable jeopardy. Some don't like the climate where their employer is based. etc.
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wiggy
Now you're really pushing it! A pp24 LH captain grossing £160k? Have you checked the payscales recently? Maybe if they're LTS!!
Look. It seems you know about your own circumstances, obviously! But you don't know mine, or my close friends.
TBH, anyone including school fees in their ME income, or housing allowance, (because they have no choice but to pay them!) is trying to pull the wool over people's eye!
Now you're really pushing it! A pp24 LH captain grossing £160k? Have you checked the payscales recently? Maybe if they're LTS!!
Look. It seems you know about your own circumstances, obviously! But you don't know mine, or my close friends.
TBH, anyone including school fees in their ME income, or housing allowance, (because they have no choice but to pay them!) is trying to pull the wool over people's eye!
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Surprising that EK can't find sufficient numbers of Indian pilots meeting their minimum hours requirements... I imagine plenty of GoAir, Indigo and Spicejet pilots would love the EK package and a move to Dubai....
Look. It seems you know about your own circumstances, obviously! But you don't know mine, or my close friends.
Last edited by wiggy; 26th Mar 2017 at 09:39.
Soon EK will be leaving those cards you find in the phone boxes frequented by those £180k tax free Nigel commuters. For a good time ride EK with provocative picture of a half naked 380. Should work a treat 
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How much does EK spend on expat pilot housing, health and education? That would be an interesting number. Swap that for a less frantic schedule or commuting roster (or both) and I may just join (at some point within the next 30 years).
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Bunk time not acounted for
That bunk time at EK does not count is beyond me! Say u do some ultra longhaul flights with 4 pilots, then you will spend around 40% time in the bunk, then there is a training flight so again 4 pilots on the flights and 40 % percent in the bunk which u do not get credit for. Then u do a day with short sectors only 2 pilots but really working hard. Add Jetlag, nightflight/dayflight etc it sounds like a real killer. On top of that u live in a hot muslim country where the girls are well not my style.. Money is surely not everything.. BTW who cares about BA on this thread.
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I've no idea why BA is in this thread either.
Ones a full service airline with an ultramodern fleet and the other is more or less these days a low cost airline with few perks, copying EasyJet and Ryanair on short haul and cheap ass Norwegian on long haul.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...P=share_btn_fb
Ones a full service airline with an ultramodern fleet and the other is more or less these days a low cost airline with few perks, copying EasyJet and Ryanair on short haul and cheap ass Norwegian on long haul.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...P=share_btn_fb
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Craggenmore for the punters you're more or less correct but as this thread is about pilot conditions I think it's only right to mention an airline where you're actually credited for time spent in the bunk and where you get more than a 24hr layover for the majority of destinations. 24hours rest (which I'm told actually turns out to be less) after a DXB-JFK is absolutely insane IMHO and bordering on the criminal.
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BA vs EK is not what we should be pursuing here. The reason why BA was included has already been explained. It is not to say one is better than the other, but to highlight salary is not the sole reason for retaining or attracting new employees. The thread drift into tax does have some bearing as it effects net pay. That, ultimately, is what we see in our accounts. If they're advertising on UK radio, it may effect those intending to remain 'residing' there.
Rex
Some of the shorter layovers are indeed difficult and 24hrs is never the easiest rest period to use. However, the shorter layovers are desirable for some pilots, myself included, as it means more time at home rather than on layover. I also believe that BA too has a few back to back US trips and have less restrictive scheme rules than, say, 20 years ago? As for the bunk time, it's 75% credit on 4 man ULR's. You get all of the 'operating sector' and half of the 'augmenting sector'. All of it's paid but 25% is not credited as flying hours. Can't say I agree with it though.
4468
If you're referring to my post, perhaps a re read might be in order. I never included the education allowance into the 70k dirhams figure. This is because there may be some pilots without need for such an allowance. Those that do have their children privately educated would have just over £15,000 per year, per child. With 3 children, that's £45,000 NET per annum. For a UK higher rate tax payer, that would have to be some income to come out with that figure each year. As for the accommodation allowance, yes, it was included. It's £40,000 NET, also per annum, that the Company gives you for moving out of free housing and doing what you and most other pilots do, pay a mortgage on your own property. Or you can stay for free with all bills and utilities covered. At least there is a choice.
However, the current standard of concentration style campus probably isn't a patch on your own Country estate in York!
And no, I'm not being facetious, I really do mean it!
Rex
Some of the shorter layovers are indeed difficult and 24hrs is never the easiest rest period to use. However, the shorter layovers are desirable for some pilots, myself included, as it means more time at home rather than on layover. I also believe that BA too has a few back to back US trips and have less restrictive scheme rules than, say, 20 years ago? As for the bunk time, it's 75% credit on 4 man ULR's. You get all of the 'operating sector' and half of the 'augmenting sector'. All of it's paid but 25% is not credited as flying hours. Can't say I agree with it though.
4468
If you're referring to my post, perhaps a re read might be in order. I never included the education allowance into the 70k dirhams figure. This is because there may be some pilots without need for such an allowance. Those that do have their children privately educated would have just over £15,000 per year, per child. With 3 children, that's £45,000 NET per annum. For a UK higher rate tax payer, that would have to be some income to come out with that figure each year. As for the accommodation allowance, yes, it was included. It's £40,000 NET, also per annum, that the Company gives you for moving out of free housing and doing what you and most other pilots do, pay a mortgage on your own property. Or you can stay for free with all bills and utilities covered. At least there is a choice.
However, the current standard of concentration style campus probably isn't a patch on your own Country estate in York!
And no, I'm not being facetious, I really do mean it!
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Some of the shorter layovers are indeed difficult and 24hrs is never the easiest rest period to use. However, the shorter layovers are desirable for some pilots, myself included, as it means more time at home rather than on layover. I also believe that BA too has a few back to back US trips and have less restrictive scheme rules than, say, 20 years ago?
(Unless you're talking about Cape Town or Jo'burg of course but no time zones crossed there).
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Strangely, it's probably the 48 hr layovers that are the silent killers on our ULR's. They may assist rest on layovers, but are actually detrimental to recovery back at home base? It's on the 2nd or 3rd day the jet lag hits, normally just before you're about to go flying again!
I would happily believe that. 48-hour layovers were great socially-wise but you started to get into local time. 24-hours was actually kinder in the end and made adjustment when you got back home much easier.