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Old 1st Feb 2017, 12:54   #1 (permalink)
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SAS to open new AOC in... Ireland

SAS complements its production with a new air operator certificate (AOC) and bases outside Scandinavia | SAS

The Scandinavian pilots are too expensive, time to open a 'new' SAS outside of Scandinavia. Will be interesting (probably sad..) to see what terms new hires will be on. A unionized that airline that last year showed that some power still lies with its employees. They will now be completely undermined.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 13:05   #2 (permalink)
 
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True. But no-doubt they will have plenty of applicants, however bad the T&Cs. The race to the bottom continues...
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 13:17   #3 (permalink)
 
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Any idea where and what are they going to fly?
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 13:30   #4 (permalink)
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The press release mentions bases in London this year and Spain next.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 16:27   #5 (permalink)
 
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The Cancer spreads!

This move by our proud Scandinavian Flag carrier makes me sick.
When are we going to stop this madness ?
IFALPA and the national unions are not heard from. Have they all given up?

That little island with no respect for ANY worker , shall now take over as The European powerhouse of aviation. What a joke.

And NO the SAS pilots are not expensive anymore.( stocks went up 5%, dressing the bride for Lufthansa Group? They already operate 30% cheaper than LH)
It is the new A320neo that will most likely be based in Heathrow and Malaga on local terms.

I think history will show that this is the way to go for more accidents.
Its all about money now, no more stable predictable life for pilots.

I should have taken those 2.5 mill swiss francs inbound the alps and just kept on going,,,

, to late now.
Power to the People
Ehh PILOTS
Rant over
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 19:19   #6 (permalink)
 
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Cost advantage
The Irish unit will hire locally, while its cost advantage is more likely to come from lower social security expenses and taxes rather than from reduced wages, spokesman Fredrik Henriksson said.
Services will begin with “a handful of aircraft” with the same livery and service offering as SAS’s existing fleet.
It's all the open prisons that cost the money!
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 19:25   #7 (permalink)
 
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Nothing to add

https://www.facebook.com/truthful.ir...2049065174761/

SAS obviously decided "if you can't beat them , join them" . . . . . . .

Or, on a lighter note

https://www.facebook.com/WhispersNew...58324823600195

Last edited by captplaystation; 1st Feb 2017 at 20:53.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 19:26   #8 (permalink)
 
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How did Ireland morph into Liberia?
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 21:53   #9 (permalink)
 
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Well, with an announcement like that i wonder why SAS airplanes are still flying today? Take a leaf outta TUIflys book and simply stop flying... Apparently it does help sometimes.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 22:13   #10 (permalink)
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IFALPA and the national unions are not heard from. Have they all given up?
What can they do when pilots are hired by a company set up outside of Scandinavia? I am sure they're up to their ears trying to figure this out themselves.

ANNEX IV

COMMERCIAL AIR TRANSPORT OPERATIONS [PART-CAT]

SUBPART A

GENERAL REQUIREMENTS

CAT.GEN.100 Competent authority
The competent authority shall be the authority designated by the Member State in which the operator has its principal place of business

How on earth are the office clerks at the IAA supposed to know what's going on in the operation they're providing oversight for?
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Old 2nd Feb 2017, 09:57   #11 (permalink)
 
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Liberia indeed.

Rat 5
Spot on You are, how did the most incompetent and cheapest land in old EU become the most populare place to go for an AOC.?
The answer is : Cheapest,

The background : We the Pilots let them.
Bjørn Kjos in Norwegian has longtime stated he wants it like the shipping industry.
Voila : Liberia.

Scary
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Old 2nd Feb 2017, 10:30   #12 (permalink)
 
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And yet Aer Lingus guys enjoy decent Ts&Cs... Why do you think that is?

Last edited by CarbHeatIn; 31st Jan 2018 at 20:17.
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Old 2nd Feb 2017, 11:12   #13 (permalink)
 
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Is it because Aer Lingus pilots are represented by a trade union DIRECTLY to the airline?

https://ialpa.net/

Norwegian’s LGW based pilots pay union dues to BALPA for representation to staffing agency, Orient Ship Management, who rents them to a Norwegian airline.
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Old 2nd Feb 2017, 11:21   #14 (permalink)
 
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CarbHeatIn

Good news then , according your logic: Full represantation and the good old system to all that fly under a Irish AOC.
Lovely.
Reality check.
EIN was to be taken over by RYR but some court decided that would be leading to a RYR monopoly in Irland.

RYR keeps it as its pet for possible long haul competency and route sharing.
It has 47 aircraft, RYR has 370 NOR has 200 plus.
Lets compare it with Braathes SAFE in Norway in the old days.
When they almost went bankrupt SAS bought them and found out they operated 30% cheaper.
Expensive pilots does not equal expensive Company.
Inflated , overpaied and incompetent management does.
Bless Airlingus, but that is their own, You know. And the only ones on the Island that knows anything about flying an aircraft.
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Old 2nd Feb 2017, 12:02   #15 (permalink)
 
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Bondi, the conditions that AER Pilots enjoy are formed from Irish Law principles:

"Collective bargaining is governed not by legislation but by a series of nationally-negotiated pay agreements based upon a social partnership model. Government, representatives of the trade union movement, of employers' organisations and more recently also drawn from the non-governmental 'social pillar' (ie voluntary groups) come together to negotiate a national agreement which fixes wage increases and other payments generally."

Bearing in mind this was a State Owned airline that was floated, the hereditary rights etc remain under Irish and EU laws as Eire is part of the " eurozone"

Under the Constitution, the State guarantees the right of the citizens to form associations and unions. (art. 40.6.(iii))." therefore there is no " recognition" issues as in NAS. Secondly, Unions in Eire are affiliated .. Unfortunately these T+Cs were so good the massive debt meant that the Government had little choice but to sell the airline to IAG! Bit like Olympic Airlines.. jobs for the boys..

Its a good thing on the one hand, but leads to protectionism on the other, i.e if you're not Irish, the chances of a job at Lingus are so slim you could slide under a door!

SAS will reduce it's cost base, not wages..

Last edited by Avenger; 2nd Feb 2017 at 12:12.
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Old 2nd Feb 2017, 13:07   #16 (permalink)
 
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Hey Denti, glad to see you got the massage that it was all about TUI and not AB!
Anyhow, back to topic. As long as there is no level playing field with harmonised labour law and company taxation this whole project open skies Europe will kill every descent airline and transfer the jobs to the lowest level..
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Old 2nd Feb 2017, 17:04   #17 (permalink)
 
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And some people wonder why I think Brexit was a good thing....I was hoping the EU would die.

Although the UK will probably remain part of open skies.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 08:25   #18 (permalink)
 
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The competent authority shall be the authority designated by the Member State in which the operator has its principal place of business

Slight drift; but what is the definition of "principal place of business?" It is established that RYR's largest base for flights etc. is STN, but it's HQ is DUB. So its largest source of income is in UK, but its administration centre is IRE.
Then you add in all the other overseas bases. Its business is speedily widely. I would have thought the registration of the a/c would have some input, but then again, I flew for an Italian airline with an Italian AOC but EI reg a/c. However, that was before EASA, even JAR.


Under the Constitution (IRE), the State guarantees the right of the citizens to form associations and unions. (art. 40.6.(iii))." therefore there is no " recognition issues. Secondly, Unions in Eire are affiliated."

If this is correct, as quoted by Bondi, how does RYR succeed in resisting a union in RYR. They claim not to prohibit a union, but to recognise it for negotiating purposes. Bondi suggests there are rights enshrined in the Irish constitution. I miss be missing something, or there are many 'blind eyes' in IRE.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 09:14   #19 (permalink)
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Slight drift; but what is the definition of "principal place of business?"
EASA-OPS goes on to define that:

‘principal place of business’ means the head office or registered office of the organisation within which the principal financial functions and operational control of the activities referred to in this Regulation are exercised

So I can only presume that 'new' SAS will have some administration set up in Ireland.
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Old 3rd Feb 2017, 09:22   #20 (permalink)
 
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It´s sad. SAS is the last company I would expect it from.
On the other side, it´s entirely understandable. They must compete on equal term, in order to have a chance to beat other companies.

EU/EASA must make some changes. Only then we can hope for course reversal in TCs.
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