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SAS to open new AOC in... Ireland

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SAS to open new AOC in... Ireland

Old 2nd Dec 2018, 02:41
  #601 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
From a friend of mine who is union rep for SAS, this was his own words: If this company is goes under (hopefully) the pilots are out on their own.

The company is wholly independent from SAS. and from what I have heard due to crewing problems, they have had to use SAS Scandinavia to replace many of the flights to avoid cancellations.

The company is owned by SAS, but has no direct connection to SAS itself, and the SAS Scandinavia hopes and wants it to fail, and to be honest it will be a tragedy if it does survive, as it could mean the end for proper companies like SAS, instead all companies will just be Irish importers with contract pilots, and that is the tragedy we all want to avoid.

For me it seems like creative solution of "union" busting airline, so next time SAS pilots put their management under fire, SAS can turn around and use SAIL to bust those demanding crews from SAS.
Tell your friend "the union rep" not to be so hopeful. sas won't be going under any mat in Denmark nor will Sail under any mat in Spain. He's a fabulous imagination. perhaps he should focus on his own performance rather than dreaming .................................
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 03:34
  #602 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wheelbarrow View Post
Tell your friend "the union rep" not to be so hopeful. sas won't be going under any mat in Denmark nor will Sail under any mat in Spain. He's a fabulous imagination. perhaps he should focus on his own performance rather than dreaming .................................
https://e24.no/naeringsliv/sas/kanse...laatt/24401929

https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/no...e-fly-i-sommer

https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/no...den-av-kollaps

Use Google translate, and you will discover a lot of interesting news. SAS Scandinavia is going fairly good at the moment, the same can't be said about SAIL.
From the press it seems to be a disaster waiting to happen, even say it's worse than Ryanair, that takes some making.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 07:03
  #603 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
From a friend of mine who is union rep for SAS, this was his own words: If this company is goes under (hopefully) the pilots are out on their own.

The company is wholly independent from SAS. and from what I have heard due to crewing problems, they have had to use SAS Scandinavia to replace many of the flights to avoid cancellations.

The company is owned by SAS, but has no direct connection to SAS itself, and the SAS Scandinavia hopes and wants it to fail, and to be honest it will be a tragedy if it does survive, as it could mean the end for proper companies like SAS, instead all companies will just be Irish importers with contract pilots, and that is the tragedy we all want to avoid.

For me it seems like creative solution of "union" busting airline, so next time SAS pilots put their management under fire, SAS can turn around and use SAIL to bust those demanding crews from SAS.

What a lovely post, there are some truly inspiring people about! Wishing people get made redundant huh? What a wonderful human being you are!

We have had SAS mainline management on jumpseats, they are really happy with SAS Ireland, maybe not so much with the handling company.

it has been expressed to us if this doesn't work, mainline is in trouble.... so wish away Hahaha

Last edited by R1ddle; 3rd Dec 2018 at 01:26.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 07:59
  #604 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by R1ddle View Post
What a lovely post, there are some truely inspiring people about! Wishing people get made redundant huh? What a wonderful human being you are!
Well, you are making a bunch of SAS Mainline crews redundant, aren´t you?
If you are working for SAIL you are not exactly part of an innovative upstart trailblazing new and different ways of doing things. Nor are you an independent competitor. You are flying mainline planes on mainline routes, aren´t you?
And if you ignore the PR people and fancy management speeches and instead read the fine print in the annual reports you will notice SAIL isn´t exactly contributing to the bottom line.
This whole discussion about T&Cs and how they are/will be/might be improving is a bit of a joke. The only reason SAIL was created is to pressure the mainline crews into accepting lower T&Cs. Now if you can add 2 and 2 together you might see that if management succeeds in this - lowering pay and pensions for mainline crews, who are already at the low end in Europe - then they obviously can´t raise the same for SAIL crews a whole lot. That would defeat the purpose. Au contraire, management would turn around and use those very lowered T&Cs against SAIL crews.
And should management not succeed, well then there is no point in having SAIL and it will very quickly go the way of all the other SAS non-main airline experiments.
You are pawns in a dirty game. Do you let yourself get played?
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 08:18
  #605 (permalink)  
 
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Have SAS recently made pilots redundant?

"Au contraire" there already is a new and improved contract out that is very competitive, but we are still far cheaper as the cost of living outside scandinavia is far cheaper.

I have worked for a number of airlines, not one of my previous companies exist anymore. I learned a long time ago airlines are not pilot charities....some still haven't it seems.

Good luck to all
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 13:32
  #606 (permalink)  
 
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SAIL goal is to be cheaper than SAS mainline, thats a fact. So everybody has to decide him/herself, if she/he wants to be "cheap". I for myself was proud to tell them the truth during my interview and rejected their sim offer, because of ethical reasons. Now I understand of course people, that have a loan, family to support, that they pray to SAIL, but I can only agree with all the posters above, that mentioned, how cheap SAIL is , indeed. I myself got an offer with much better t&c´s, not only money wise, also ethical wise, how people are treated in SAILS is not the way of my multicultural and ethical mind, but I not wanna to start a political discussion, I think our british friends have more than enough with the present brexit chaos, at the end of the day everybody gets back what she/he earns. Thats also a fact.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 16:22
  #607 (permalink)  
 
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SAIL is just a further race to the bottom with regards to T&C's. It's not about wishing people become redundant, but it's clear from the Scandinavian Unions that SAIL is not a welcome sight.

You might not like the reality, but when it's told to be worse than Ryanair, than it should be eye opener.
I have worked with loads of ex Ryanair guys, and asked them if it really was as bad as I have read, they told me it was worse than we can imagine.

I also understand people need to put food on the table for their families etc., but from the reports SAIL had to cancel hundreds of flights this summer due to lack of crew, according to the Scandinavian press the writing is on the wall regarding the future of SAIL, and the Scandinavian unions will not be there help it survive.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 10:00
  #608 (permalink)  
 
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That is interesting and stiff! I asked to CAE if the flexible roster is connected to the high season periods and their answer is:
The flexible roster was added in the last contract because SAS Ireland try to limit flight cancellations. It seems that there is a large turnover of employees (for different reasons), having many trainings and little availability from the employees, definitely SAS Ireland need more flexibility in the rostering.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 13:11
  #609 (permalink)  
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R1ddle,

SAS management uses SAIL to/from and domestic Scandinavia. They want to operate in Scandinavia without carrying the associated costs of doing so. It's our schools, health care and public services that are loosers. On top of that a perfect tool for union busting. SAS management did not anticipate the local pilot shortage (and I emphasize local, it'll probably be over soon with the fall of Primera, Smal Planet... WOW?)). We'll see if the wind fills the sail again (pun intended), mainline pilots aren't so thrilled. I hope you understand why. It's not the players we're against, it's the business model.

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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 15:53
  #610 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by R1ddle View Post
Have SAS recently made pilots redundant?

"Au contraire" there already is a new and improved contract out that is very competitive, but we are still far cheaper as the cost of living outside scandinavia is far cheaper.

I have worked for a number of airlines, not one of my previous companies exist anymore. I learned a long time ago airlines are not pilot charities....some still haven't it seems.

Good luck to all
Living in London is not far cheaper than Scandinavia, furthermore what is the cost of living "cheaper"?
Sometime ago when was working with some ex Ryanair guys, and we talked about Cabin Crew conditions at RyR, I asked the stupid question why do they put up with such conditions, than to be told most of them that come and work come from "poor" European countries such as Spain, Portugal, Italy and Eastern Europe etc. Places where it's not easy to find good paid jobs.
And I can recall from few years back, before my flying days I lived in Spain, and we had this waitress working in our local restaurant, she would work 6 days a week, 2 jobs and around 10 - 12 hours a day, for this she would have around £500 - 600 a month. (around 15 years ago)
So I can see why loads of people get sucked into taking such jobs, and getting treated like trash, for them it's an "upgrade" - this is where EU has become a dream for companies wanting to take advantage of a EU wide cheap labour market to squeeze the prices down.

As 172_driver says, "It's not the players we're against, it's the business model."

R1ddle can you honestly not see the issues with SAIL business model and the threat it poses to SAS mainland? The "Creators" of SAIL are treating you as test subject, they are hoping this will be the future, so they can make more profits, and provide worse TC's to their crews. If you can't see this yourself, than you are part of the problem and culture that needs to change.
You are getting a short term gain, in exchange for long term pain.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 16:40
  #611 (permalink)  
 
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Well you have to team up with them instead, just like at Norwegian where the pilot corps has tried to unite instead. In that way the TC's can be improved for everyone.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 18:16
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Originally Posted by Icejock View Post
Well you have to team up with them instead, just like at Norwegian where the pilot corps has tried to unite instead. In that way the TC's can be improved for everyone.
And what planet are you living on?
Let's see how much support Norwegian Core or SAS mainland will get from their "colleagues" contracted by OSM or CAE, next time Norwegian Core or SAS mainland goes out into strike, and the contractors and SAIL will be sent to break the strikes?

Last time Norwegians strike lasted around 2 weeks, and still there was s.... sent into break the unions strike, so this is only a loose - loose scenario.

Of course the excuse will always be that you need to follow the union laws of your land, but don't kid yourself that SAS want you to be equal to SAS mainland company, they will rather strive to make SAS mainland equal to SAIL. Less pay, less benefits, downgrade in overall TC's, that's what the ultimate goal is.

Sure you can try to "talk together", but when push comes to shove, SAIL will be spineless, they will be forced to break strikes of their colleagues if sent to cover SAS mainland flights, because SAIL pilots are NOT employed by SAS.
It's called split and conquer. And it's the worst you can do to a colleague in any profession.

What is sad, is not that you take the job, as you probably don't have much choice, this is what there for you, you can't get a better job, the sad bit is that you at can't even acknowledge that this is the cancer of our industry, and we only have ourselves to blame at the end of the day.

SAIL and SAS will never be the same, for the exact reason as explained, that's why it is important for all of us in the industry that companies like SAIL fails, so we can all be offered proper contracts and proper TC's.

It's also important you don't see this as a personal attack, I wish Ryanair also fails, but not because I want people to loose their jobs, rather that management understand that they can't run airlines this way, and that they must restructure the business model. At the moment example Ryanair are forced to make small steps to improve, similar must apply for companies like SAIL, we hope they fail with their business model, and restructure the company to be in line with SAS mainland.
But at the moment they are founded to take away a large part of SAS mainland business, that means they are taking away jobs from people in SAS mainland company, that's the reality.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 20:56
  #613 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
I wish Ryanair also fails, but not because I want people to loose their jobs, rather that management understand that they can't run airlines this way, and that they must restructure the business model. At the moment example Ryanair are forced to make small steps to improve, similar must apply for companies like SAIL, we hope they fail with their business model, and restructure the company to be in line with SAS mainland.
But at the moment they are founded to take away a large part of SAS mainland business, that means they are taking away jobs from people in SAS mainland company, that's the reality.
Management can run companies this way and do run companies this way. Ryanair have created countless pilot jobs by making aviation more accessible to the masses and creating a great foothold for many people to start their careers in aviation. Get your head out of 1970 and realise that your unions’ strangling terms, massive salaries for little productivity have a place in the history books when it comes to aviation. If SAS don’t do it they’ll be run out of business by the likes of Ryanair and Wizz who will. The consumer is voting with their wallet and is forcing everyone to trim costs.

You’re foolish to think Ryanair will become like SAS mainline, and even if they do there’ll be another ULCC behind them to pick up the pieces and keep fares low for the consumer.

SAS Ireland, even with its challenges is helping reduce the cost of flying for SAS by 30%. There’s not a chance they’ll throw that away because of some disgruntled crew members want their six figure salaries and hefty annual leave allowances at the busiest travel times of the year.

Well done to SAS for creating opportunities to increase their business whilst also maintaining a high standard. If you don’t like it, then go somewhere else to work. Nobody cares.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 21:16
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Originally Posted by ShamrockF View Post


Management can run companies this way and do run companies this way. Ryanair have created countless pilot jobs by making aviation more accessible to the masses and creating a great foothold for many people to start their careers in aviation. Get your head out of 1970 and realise that your unions’ strangling terms, massive salaries for little productivity have a place in the history books when it comes to aviation. If SAS don’t do it they’ll be run out of business by the likes of Ryanair and Wizz who will. The consumer is voting with their wallet and is forcing everyone to trim costs.

You’re foolish to think Ryanair will become like SAS mainline, and even if they do there’ll be another ULCC behind them to pick up the pieces and keep fares low for the consumer.

SAS Ireland, even with its challenges is helping reduce the cost of flying for SAS by 30%. There’s not a chance they’ll throw that away because of some disgruntled crew members want their six figure salaries and hefty annual leave allowances at the busiest travel times of the year.

Well done to SAS for creating opportunities to increase their business whilst also maintaining a high standard. If you don’t like it, then go somewhere else to work. Nobody cares.
Really? Now we know MOL is here on PPRuNe too, what a nasty piece of work.
I will actually enjoy the moment SAIL goes bust, after reading such vitriol. As it shows, the divide is greater than ever, those "RyR" pilots who got their chance there, hates the company and are escaping in droves if they get the chance.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 08:23
  #615 (permalink)  
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SAS Ireland, even with its challenges is helping reduce the cost of flying for SAS by 30%. There’s not a chance they’ll throw that away because of some disgruntled crew members want their six figure salaries and hefty annual leave allowances at the busiest travel times of the year.
Ignorant to say the least. You have very little knowledge about terms & conditions in mainline, nor the unit cost of SAIL.

Go right ahead, sell yourself cheap. With comments like that I cannot wait for Brexit to happen sooner rather than later.

Last edited by 172_driver; 4th Dec 2018 at 18:51.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:06
  #616 (permalink)  
 
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The number 9 about to be delivered
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:21
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Originally Posted by matt283 View Post
SAIL is operating now 8 a/c and number of cancellations still doesn't reduce...

Any inside news? Cabin crew in Malaga are still working without contract?
So happy news all the way around. May it long continue, so they will offer people proper contracts, or maybe just join SAS instead.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 08:57
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Malaga base

Originally Posted by matt283 View Post
Apparently newest rumor about closing Malaga base, anybody else heard anything about that??
Can any substantiate the rumor above?


Thx.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 10:51
  #619 (permalink)  
 
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Any more news about SAIL or the Malaga base?
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