SAS Ireland SAIL
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Perhaps this is a bit out of thread, but:
A question that has been popping in my head for the last year is why SAS is using two different strategies to "lower" their cost?
Why do they use external wet-lease providers(Regional Jet, CityJet, Air Nostrum), when they have established their "own" wet-lease provider SAIL?
I am curious as to why SAS wants to use both?
Since external providers certainly will try to generate a profit for them selves, the cost of operations must be higher than to use an "in house" wet-lease (SAIL)?
Or why didn't they simply put the Airbus 320 on Air Nostrum or CityJet? CityJet certainly acquired the CRJs mainly for the SAS contract.
What would stop them from adding the airbus to their AOC?
A question that has been popping in my head for the last year is why SAS is using two different strategies to "lower" their cost?
Why do they use external wet-lease providers(Regional Jet, CityJet, Air Nostrum), when they have established their "own" wet-lease provider SAIL?
I am curious as to why SAS wants to use both?
Since external providers certainly will try to generate a profit for them selves, the cost of operations must be higher than to use an "in house" wet-lease (SAIL)?
Or why didn't they simply put the Airbus 320 on Air Nostrum or CityJet? CityJet certainly acquired the CRJs mainly for the SAS contract.
What would stop them from adding the airbus to their AOC?
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Control.
CityJet flights are being cancelled left right and center for a long time. They are just not up to the job. Never mind winter in Scandinavia.
CJ can not get enough crew for the time being.
SAS HQ is not happy, according an article last week.
CityJet flights are being cancelled left right and center for a long time. They are just not up to the job. Never mind winter in Scandinavia.
CJ can not get enough crew for the time being.
SAS HQ is not happy, according an article last week.
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I understand that SAS wants control.
But the cancellations started shortly after acquiring Cimber, in mid 2017 when people started to flee the excellent company structure and subsequent treatment of staff which CityJet was offering at that time.
The SAIL project was started even further back in 2016 (if I remember correctly), prior to the mass cancellations.
We all understand that SAS are not happy with CityJet, but what actions can actually be done now to mitigate the fiasco?
Terminate the contract with CityJet and lease the AC over to SAIL?
But the main question remains.
What could be possible reasons to float their own wet-lease, yet wet-lease from a third party onto their own network?
Or could we just assume, like many of SAS other great projects, that there is no actual plan behind?
But the cancellations started shortly after acquiring Cimber, in mid 2017 when people started to flee the excellent company structure and subsequent treatment of staff which CityJet was offering at that time.
The SAIL project was started even further back in 2016 (if I remember correctly), prior to the mass cancellations.
We all understand that SAS are not happy with CityJet, but what actions can actually be done now to mitigate the fiasco?
Terminate the contract with CityJet and lease the AC over to SAIL?
But the main question remains.
What could be possible reasons to float their own wet-lease, yet wet-lease from a third party onto their own network?
Or could we just assume, like many of SAS other great projects, that there is no actual plan behind?
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Is the LHR pattern 5/4/5/13 and the Malaga 6/3?
Very very different rotation. What is the major reason people are not joining or running away? Where do the go?
Very very different rotation. What is the major reason people are not joining or running away? Where do the go?
Join Date: May 2017
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They can’t organise and train the crews they have.
They have a lack of trainers and management with more to leave.
The spanish contract is similar to LHR but in Euros and 6/3 wrk pattern. Every flight is Spain/Scandinavia. 4+hrs each way.
Little in the way of night stops so money is less.
Mans there’s a clause in the contract that they can change your base or roster pattern if they like!
They have a lack of trainers and management with more to leave.
The spanish contract is similar to LHR but in Euros and 6/3 wrk pattern. Every flight is Spain/Scandinavia. 4+hrs each way.
Little in the way of night stops so money is less.
Mans there’s a clause in the contract that they can change your base or roster pattern if they like!
To me it looks like all the ¨great ex ryr minds¨ created those t&c...
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Fact: Aircraft #8 for SAIL that was to be EI-SIH is now going to SAS Scandinavia (funny name, isn't it...) and will be SE-ROP and the next one in line will be SE-RON.
Rumours: The LHR base might disappear in favor for AGP (to cover the apparent difficulties in recruiting pilots for LHR)
Rumours: The LHR base might disappear in favor for AGP (to cover the apparent difficulties in recruiting pilots for LHR)
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8 & 9 are off to Scandinavia. To be returned early in 2019.
BALPA are working furiously behind the scenes with CAE in order to improve the package. For me it's too late, I'm leaving WOW to go somewhere warmer. Was really hoping to join SAIL, but not on those poxy conditions. I know of 8 people who are currently sitting on job offers elsewhere, but they are waiting to see what CAE/BALPA come up with. It's crunch time for CAE.
Becareful what you wish for. If SAIL fails, that's the end of SAS. Norway doesn't want it (anyone bought Norway's share yet?)
And Lufthansa did a runner years ago. I recently positioned on SAS 5 times. Worst load factor I have ever seen on an airbus/737. And the cabin crew were miserable as hell.
Good luck all, counting the days to retirement.
BALPA are working furiously behind the scenes with CAE in order to improve the package. For me it's too late, I'm leaving WOW to go somewhere warmer. Was really hoping to join SAIL, but not on those poxy conditions. I know of 8 people who are currently sitting on job offers elsewhere, but they are waiting to see what CAE/BALPA come up with. It's crunch time for CAE.
Becareful what you wish for. If SAIL fails, that's the end of SAS. Norway doesn't want it (anyone bought Norway's share yet?)
And Lufthansa did a runner years ago. I recently positioned on SAS 5 times. Worst load factor I have ever seen on an airbus/737. And the cabin crew were miserable as hell.
Good luck all, counting the days to retirement.
Join Date: May 2017
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Fact: Aircraft #8 for SAIL that was to be EI-SIH is now going to SAS Scandinavia (funny name, isn't it...) and will be SE-ROP and the next one in line will be SE-RON.
Rumours: The LHR base might disappear in favor for AGP (to cover the apparent difficulties in recruiting pilots for LHR)
Rumours: The LHR base might disappear in favor for AGP (to cover the apparent difficulties in recruiting pilots for LHR)
I thought the situation in AGP is even worse than LHR...
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What's the latest about the new contract?
It's in the news today that SAS reduces the traffic this winter due to SAIL..
On the other hand operations seems very smooth since a few weeks back?
It's in the news today that SAS reduces the traffic this winter due to SAIL..
On the other hand operations seems very smooth since a few weeks back?
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8 & 9 are off to Scandinavia. To be returned early in 2019.
BALPA are working furiously behind the scenes with CAE in order to improve the package. For me it's too late, I'm leaving WOW to go somewhere warmer. Was really hoping to join SAIL, but not on those poxy conditions. I know of 8 people who are currently sitting on job offers elsewhere, but they are waiting to see what CAE/BALPA come up with. It's crunch time for CAE.
Becareful what you wish for. If SAIL fails, that's the end of SAS. Norway doesn't want it (anyone bought Norway's share yet?)
And Lufthansa did a runner years ago. I recently positioned on SAS 5 times. Worst load factor I have ever seen on an airbus/737. And the cabin crew were miserable as hell.
Good luck all, counting the days to retirement.
BALPA are working furiously behind the scenes with CAE in order to improve the package. For me it's too late, I'm leaving WOW to go somewhere warmer. Was really hoping to join SAIL, but not on those poxy conditions. I know of 8 people who are currently sitting on job offers elsewhere, but they are waiting to see what CAE/BALPA come up with. It's crunch time for CAE.
Becareful what you wish for. If SAIL fails, that's the end of SAS. Norway doesn't want it (anyone bought Norway's share yet?)
And Lufthansa did a runner years ago. I recently positioned on SAS 5 times. Worst load factor I have ever seen on an airbus/737. And the cabin crew were miserable as hell.
Good luck all, counting the days to retirement.
SAS just posted a 200 million Euro profit for last three months despite SAIL burning money and cancelling flights. Just by reading your post I'm sure you were the most miserable person on those flights.
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Good news Indeed.
Now a large share of that was my 300euro ticket last month from Hamburg to Bergen.
Very friendly cabin crew, but then she was old Braathens.
Anyway.
Time to drop SAIL and Cimber , which they are taking to court, by the way.
Replace management with some Danes.
The present lot has lost the plot.
Anyway
Grattis Grabbar
Regards
Cpt B
Very friendly cabin crew, but then she was old Braathens.
Anyway.
Time to drop SAIL and Cimber , which they are taking to court, by the way.
Replace management with some Danes.
The present lot has lost the plot.
Anyway
Grattis Grabbar
Regards
Cpt B
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Sounds like cockpit rumours which are as high as the clouds.
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Challenges of getting the traffic program together with SAS's largest provider of CRJ900 flights, Irish CityJet, has prompted the Scandinavian carrier to look after new business partners.
Estonian Regional Jet - already providing flights to SAS with ATR72 aircraft - has been hired to assist a CRJ900 aircraft on routes from Copenhagen during the period 24 September to 30 November.
In total, Regional Jets CRJ900 will return 52 flights for SAS per week to destinations such as Birmingham, Bologna, Munich, Bucharest, Geneva, Warsaw, Trondheim and Tallinn - all flights of flights operated mainly by CityJet.
SAS and Regional Jet have entered into a so-called ACMI agreement, which means that Regional Jet delivers aircraft with crew, maintenance and insurance to SAS.
TALLINN SETTING ON DANISH ROUTES
Regional Jet, a subsidiary of the Estonian state-owned company Nordica, has already helped SAS with a CRJ700 aircraft since July, but now it was upgraded with a further flight.
The CRJ900 aircraft must service the SAS route from a local-owned Tallinn, not covered by the agreement applicable to the staff of Regional Jets ATR72 operations for SAS.
In this regard, SAS's press department informs in an email that SAS expects from their external partners that employees must have local competitive conditions consistent with the country in which they are based.
The Aerospace Personnel Union, which has the agreement for the employees of Regional Jets ATR72 operations for SAS in Denmark, states that it is keeping a close watch on the extent of Regional Jets other tasks for SAS.
Estonian Regional Jet - already providing flights to SAS with ATR72 aircraft - has been hired to assist a CRJ900 aircraft on routes from Copenhagen during the period 24 September to 30 November.
In total, Regional Jets CRJ900 will return 52 flights for SAS per week to destinations such as Birmingham, Bologna, Munich, Bucharest, Geneva, Warsaw, Trondheim and Tallinn - all flights of flights operated mainly by CityJet.
SAS and Regional Jet have entered into a so-called ACMI agreement, which means that Regional Jet delivers aircraft with crew, maintenance and insurance to SAS.
TALLINN SETTING ON DANISH ROUTES
Regional Jet, a subsidiary of the Estonian state-owned company Nordica, has already helped SAS with a CRJ700 aircraft since July, but now it was upgraded with a further flight.
The CRJ900 aircraft must service the SAS route from a local-owned Tallinn, not covered by the agreement applicable to the staff of Regional Jets ATR72 operations for SAS.
In this regard, SAS's press department informs in an email that SAS expects from their external partners that employees must have local competitive conditions consistent with the country in which they are based.
The Aerospace Personnel Union, which has the agreement for the employees of Regional Jets ATR72 operations for SAS in Denmark, states that it is keeping a close watch on the extent of Regional Jets other tasks for SAS.
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Meanwhile crew based in Malaga for SAS Ireland have english contract, paying income tax in ireland as far as I understand...
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In other words, SAS don't give a rats arse where the crew is based, what contract they are on, and where they work, as long as the subcontractors (CAE, Cityjet, Regional OU etc.), provide them with regional and short haul flights to and from Scandinavia.
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Meanwhile crew based in Malaga for SAS Ireland have english contract, paying income tax in ireland as far as I understand...
I see SK mainline is getting some London rotations back. Even night stops. Good for us.
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In other words, SAS don't give a rats arse where the crew is based, what contract they are on, and where they work, as long as the subcontractors (CAE, Cityjet, Regional OU etc.), provide them with regional and short haul flights to and from Scandinavia.
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luftfart.nu:
Extra flights from no fewer than six different airlines fly - or will fly in the near future - for SAS. The reason is that SAS's permanent supplier of CRJ900 aircraft, CityJet, lacks staff.
The companies in which SAS leases capacity counts German WDL Aviation, Faroese Atlantic Airways, Estonian Regional Jet OÜ and Danish Danish Air Transport, Jet Time and Alsie Express.
"It is common for our industry to use ad hoc partners while we have long-term strategic partners. Ad hoc partners are usually hired due to various reasons such as aircraft, engineering, crew capacity, etc., "writes Mariam Skovfoged, Press Officer in SAS, in an email to the editorial board adding:
»During the autumn we use several operators until our long-term partner CityJet has recruited the crew they need. '
ONE THIRD OF THE PILOTS HAS LEFT CITYJET
Just over a month ago, staff shortages in CityJet by The Irish Times were linked with over 700 canceled SAS flights in just three months.
In the spring it came to light that about one third of the Danish pilots in CityJet had chosen to leave their position.
"Many have gotten enough because they feel that CityJet is constantly challenging the terms of our agreement," said an anonymous pilot at that time.
Since then, the employees' union, the Airline's Personal Union, FPU, accused CityJet of not less than eight breaches of the employee's agreement and raised the company in the Labor Court.
The editorial board has contacted CityJet, but is still waiting to hear from the company.
JET TIME PRIORITIES ASSISTANCE TO SAS
Of the temporary staff who will assist SAS in the coming months, Regional Jet is already flying for SAS with ATR72 aircraft. From mid September to end of November, the company will also assist with a CRJ900 on 52 weekly flights to destinations such as Birmingham, Bologna, Munich, Bucharest, Geneva, Warsaw, Trondheim and Tallinn - all flights of flights operated mainly by CityJet.
From the Danish Jet Time, which also flew to SAS in spring 2018, the assistance to SAS consists of a Boeing 737-700. Jet Time will produce 270 block hours for SAS over the next three months, says Birthe Madsen, Deputy Director of Jet Time, to the editorial board.
"It is a nice task for a company of our size. After a busy summer, we now have free capacity to fly ACMI tasks (hire of airplane with crew, maintenance and insurance red.) And here SAS is first in line, "she says.
Jet Time will fly SAS routes from Copenhagen to Bologna, Manchester, Brussels, Trondheim and home base for SAS's Irish subsidiary, London.
Just SAS's subsidiary, SAS Ireland, abbreviated SAIL, has also had certain challenges with deliveries as agreed to the parent company during the summer months with 61 cancellations in July.
The other airlines with which SAS has leased capacity consists of the assistance of a British Aerospace 146 (WDL Aviation), an Airbus A319 (Atlantic Airways), a Mcdonnell Douglas MD-82 (Danish Air Transport) and ATR72-500 (Alsie Express ).
Extra flights from no fewer than six different airlines fly - or will fly in the near future - for SAS. The reason is that SAS's permanent supplier of CRJ900 aircraft, CityJet, lacks staff.
The companies in which SAS leases capacity counts German WDL Aviation, Faroese Atlantic Airways, Estonian Regional Jet OÜ and Danish Danish Air Transport, Jet Time and Alsie Express.
"It is common for our industry to use ad hoc partners while we have long-term strategic partners. Ad hoc partners are usually hired due to various reasons such as aircraft, engineering, crew capacity, etc., "writes Mariam Skovfoged, Press Officer in SAS, in an email to the editorial board adding:
»During the autumn we use several operators until our long-term partner CityJet has recruited the crew they need. '
ONE THIRD OF THE PILOTS HAS LEFT CITYJET
Just over a month ago, staff shortages in CityJet by The Irish Times were linked with over 700 canceled SAS flights in just three months.
In the spring it came to light that about one third of the Danish pilots in CityJet had chosen to leave their position.
"Many have gotten enough because they feel that CityJet is constantly challenging the terms of our agreement," said an anonymous pilot at that time.
Since then, the employees' union, the Airline's Personal Union, FPU, accused CityJet of not less than eight breaches of the employee's agreement and raised the company in the Labor Court.
The editorial board has contacted CityJet, but is still waiting to hear from the company.
JET TIME PRIORITIES ASSISTANCE TO SAS
Of the temporary staff who will assist SAS in the coming months, Regional Jet is already flying for SAS with ATR72 aircraft. From mid September to end of November, the company will also assist with a CRJ900 on 52 weekly flights to destinations such as Birmingham, Bologna, Munich, Bucharest, Geneva, Warsaw, Trondheim and Tallinn - all flights of flights operated mainly by CityJet.
From the Danish Jet Time, which also flew to SAS in spring 2018, the assistance to SAS consists of a Boeing 737-700. Jet Time will produce 270 block hours for SAS over the next three months, says Birthe Madsen, Deputy Director of Jet Time, to the editorial board.
"It is a nice task for a company of our size. After a busy summer, we now have free capacity to fly ACMI tasks (hire of airplane with crew, maintenance and insurance red.) And here SAS is first in line, "she says.
Jet Time will fly SAS routes from Copenhagen to Bologna, Manchester, Brussels, Trondheim and home base for SAS's Irish subsidiary, London.
Just SAS's subsidiary, SAS Ireland, abbreviated SAIL, has also had certain challenges with deliveries as agreed to the parent company during the summer months with 61 cancellations in July.
The other airlines with which SAS has leased capacity consists of the assistance of a British Aerospace 146 (WDL Aviation), an Airbus A319 (Atlantic Airways), a Mcdonnell Douglas MD-82 (Danish Air Transport) and ATR72-500 (Alsie Express ).
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Surely, demonstrating poor standards are not acceptable is a good thing. If you don’t make the grade, then you’re chopped. Just like in any decent airline.
I hear BALPA and CAE have agreed new terms. This may just entice crew from WOW and possibly Turkish who want to come back home.
I hear BALPA and CAE have agreed new terms. This may just entice crew from WOW and possibly Turkish who want to come back home.