SAS Ireland SAIL
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Good to hear that SAS is taking in more pilots, a lot of tired LOCO commuters that wants home!
Now the question is can they afford to start?
With regards to CAE
They have come a long way from building simulators.
In ca 2003 they bought Schreiner FlightcrewTraining as it was the 4 biggest at the time and Schreiner almost bankrupt.
We told them how a TRTO was run and everyone was happy.
Then the acquired some agency to milk that market to, and I am not sure they got the timing and the expertise right on that one.
Does not look like it in this case. .
Now the question is can they afford to start?
With regards to CAE
They have come a long way from building simulators.
In ca 2003 they bought Schreiner FlightcrewTraining as it was the 4 biggest at the time and Schreiner almost bankrupt.
We told them how a TRTO was run and everyone was happy.
Then the acquired some agency to milk that market to, and I am not sure they got the timing and the expertise right on that one.
Does not look like it in this case. .
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Pretty sure SAS mainline will not be able to attract enough experienced pilots from the LOCOs around Europe. Spoke to a BA captain recently and even they are struggling to get enough people as pay is not competitive enough and nobody wants to fly SH out of LHR.
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Captin Prop, I agree with you. In order to lower costs by opening up SAS Ireland and LHR base SAS needed to keep the terms and conditions significantly lower than any competitor in UK. Ryanair permenant contracts (which are now offered to almost all the pilots) are miles better than SAS Ireland/CAE. The same goes for starting with SAS in Scandinavia. Apart from the other problems Ryanair pilots are facing in regards to their employer, pay, pension and roster is a lot better in Ryanair than SAS (both main and LHR/AGP).
The same goes for Norwegian right now, especially in the Nordic countries where they just hired quite a lot of pilots.
So SAS will be looking to hire pilots from the regional airlines (luckily for them, Nextjet just went belly up so there are some 80 pilots there, although quite a few of them has already been scooped up by the likes of Flybe, Cityjet, BRA etc.) or the still shady outfits with bogus self-employment and these pilots see that a career at SAS is not what it was 15 years ago, there are better options out there. Easy are hiring 900 pilots this year I read and the SAS main contract is substantially lower than Easy.
Although SAS claim to have 3000 applications in their datebase, I would think that 9 out of 10 of those are not interested in joining when they understand what the pay is and how and how much an SAS pilot actually works these days.
A quick comparison: Two pilots (both rated with 1500 hours) start at SAS ARN and Norweigan ARN respectively. After 20 years of service and 10 years to command the Norwegian pilot will have earned more than 20% better than the SAS pilot and the company contributed pension will be worth about 45% more than of the SAS pilot. The same story goes for most other airlines too unless you look at the likes of Primera, Air Baltic, Nordica (Regional Jet), Smartlynx etc.
The same goes for Norwegian right now, especially in the Nordic countries where they just hired quite a lot of pilots.
So SAS will be looking to hire pilots from the regional airlines (luckily for them, Nextjet just went belly up so there are some 80 pilots there, although quite a few of them has already been scooped up by the likes of Flybe, Cityjet, BRA etc.) or the still shady outfits with bogus self-employment and these pilots see that a career at SAS is not what it was 15 years ago, there are better options out there. Easy are hiring 900 pilots this year I read and the SAS main contract is substantially lower than Easy.
Although SAS claim to have 3000 applications in their datebase, I would think that 9 out of 10 of those are not interested in joining when they understand what the pay is and how and how much an SAS pilot actually works these days.
A quick comparison: Two pilots (both rated with 1500 hours) start at SAS ARN and Norweigan ARN respectively. After 20 years of service and 10 years to command the Norwegian pilot will have earned more than 20% better than the SAS pilot and the company contributed pension will be worth about 45% more than of the SAS pilot. The same story goes for most other airlines too unless you look at the likes of Primera, Air Baltic, Nordica (Regional Jet), Smartlynx etc.
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Plenty of scandinavian pilots in our base (european orange lowcost), and nobody is even remotely interested in joining SAS. Pay significantly higher where they are now, and better rosters too.
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I am not so sure they won't find pilots for mainline. It wasn't a problem when recruitment opened in 2013 on a terrible pay. There is more to it than roster and pay. Proximity to friends amd family, particularly relevant when about to start a family. Some Scandis find themselves home abroad, many come home when the opportunity arise.
As for Norwegian, I believe SK Norway has seen quite a few people leave to NAS. Wasn't it in large for getting based closer to home? While there's been plenty of talk I really only know one in SK Sweden that has gone over. And that's stuff that usually spreads like wildfire.
As for Norwegian, I believe SK Norway has seen quite a few people leave to NAS. Wasn't it in large for getting based closer to home? While there's been plenty of talk I really only know one in SK Sweden that has gone over. And that's stuff that usually spreads like wildfire.
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Indeed,ca 6 months ago I bumped into a pilot I used to fly with , and he said SAS HQ was shocked to see 10 pilots leave for NOR , to get home and better pay and quicker upgrade.
Interesting times indeed.
Interesting times indeed.
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I am not so sure they won't find pilots for mainline. It wasn't a problem when recruitment opened in 2013 on a terrible pay. There is more to it than roster and pay. Proximity to friends amd family, particularly relevant when about to start a family. Some Scandis find themselves home abroad, many come home when the opportunity arise.
CP
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I am not so sure they won't find pilots for mainline. It wasn't a problem when recruitment opened in 2013 on a terrible pay. There is more to it than roster and pay. Proximity to friends amd family, particularly relevant when about to start a family. Some Scandis find themselves home abroad, many come home when the opportunity arise.
As for Norwegian, I believe SK Norway has seen quite a few people leave to NAS. Wasn't it in large for getting based closer to home? While there's been plenty of talk I really only know one in SK Sweden that has gone over. And that's stuff that usually spreads like wildfire.
As for Norwegian, I believe SK Norway has seen quite a few people leave to NAS. Wasn't it in large for getting based closer to home? While there's been plenty of talk I really only know one in SK Sweden that has gone over. And that's stuff that usually spreads like wildfire.
5 years ago there was no SAS Ireland, Cityjet wasn't flying 22 ac, no Estonian company was wet leased and the general pilot market wasn't what it is today.
What is (was?) attractive with SAS is common seniority, long haul in house, basing close to home etc. But if RG gets his will through, those things are gone leaving it a company with substandard terms and no career prospects.
Time will tell.
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I guess it will much depend on where you put the bar, esp. hours and language proficiency. That'd be something.....!!
At least the recruitment team is still made up of pilots, thank god.
At least the recruitment team is still made up of pilots, thank god.
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SAS Main is to hire with courses starting in August, but I wouldn’t recommend anyone to apply there. You are about 15 years from an upgrade, and wages are one of the worst in Scandiland. In addition they are cancelling alot of flights theese days, and the mood on the lines are terrible. Especially experienced crew are much better of staying and aiming for an upgrade somewhere else. Stay clear of the trap of «a Scandinavian dream». The company is torn apart with internal conflicts for many years now.
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If my information is correct that ratio was 2:1 in 2014-2016, although it should be noted that the vast majority of pilots called for assessment in these years were experienced pilots and not cadets.
However I don't think neither SAS Main nor SAS Ireland can handle being companies with high turnover ratio and hiring mainly cadets. In a few years, maybe, but the training capacity isn't big enough to handle that at the moment. For SAS Ireland, rumour is that the training department is falling apart after CAE has utterly failed in providing enough resources into the TD.
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No Training department no AOC?
How can you have an AOC with no one responsible for training.Has principle rule changed since 1999?
RYR for example had no TRTO and got CAE and SAS Flight Academy to do Type Ratings.
But they sure had a training department that ordered CAE and SAS around . I think SAS is playing with fire , what if there is an accident and the local NTSB digs deep.
Utter incompetent mother company administration, and a mailbox for Training!
SAS has done good , but they can not afford to mess this up!
I love flying with them , but this looks like a bad joke.
Good Luck
Cpt B
RYR for example had no TRTO and got CAE and SAS Flight Academy to do Type Ratings.
But they sure had a training department that ordered CAE and SAS around . I think SAS is playing with fire , what if there is an accident and the local NTSB digs deep.
Utter incompetent mother company administration, and a mailbox for Training!
SAS has done good , but they can not afford to mess this up!
I love flying with them , but this looks like a bad joke.
Good Luck
Cpt B
Regardless of who does the training, for such a thing can legally be outsourced, any airline operating under EASA rules must have a NP training. No if's, but's or when's. There is, however, nothing stopping an airline assigning multiple postholder hats to a single person, provided they can argue their case to the regulating NAA. With this in mind, the NP Training hat may well be hung on another NP, probably flight ops.
It's not the way I'd run a train set, but it's not illegal.
It's not the way I'd run a train set, but it's not illegal.
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I'm hearing flights are regularly being cancelled now due to lack of crews. Most crews refusing to work days off until a vastly improved contract appears. So CAE have employed contract Captains to bridge the gap. Also a few regular pilots who don't mind the shoddy contract and volunteering to work their days off. Out for themselves only. Screw the rest.
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The Norwegian State has decided to sell all its ca 10% of the total SAS stocks.
The stocks will be available on the Børs.( Olso or Stockholm, dont know)
Something is mowing in Europe. Is Lufthansa getting Norwegian AND SAS?.
Me thinks so.
Been wrong before.
Good luck to all Flight Crew
Regards
Cpt B
The stocks will be available on the Børs.( Olso or Stockholm, dont know)
Something is mowing in Europe. Is Lufthansa getting Norwegian AND SAS?.
Me thinks so.
Been wrong before.
Good luck to all Flight Crew
Regards
Cpt B
Last edited by BluSdUp; 26th Jun 2018 at 17:25.
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An Irish AOC is not be all and end all of operators dreams, I’m reasonably confident that if Bjørn really did have crystal testies he would not go down that path again, the IAA required NAI went back to paper flight deck for 8 months despite NAS/NAN having been paperless for 4 years, same with NAI 737 long haul, crayons and plotting charts are the order of the day, at least it stops you getting bored, seems the IAA adult team can’t read down loaded files on servers, but can read 1000’s of scraps of paper and Oceanic clearances.
i have heard from several normally reliable sources that it costs Norwegian more to run things through NAI than NAS/NAN the Labour certainly isn’t cheap and reverting to a Swedish AOC that will allow NUK/NAS/NAI pilots to fly across AOC is on the cards, remember that NAI is not Norwegian Air Ireland, but Norwegian Air International
i have heard from several normally reliable sources that it costs Norwegian more to run things through NAI than NAS/NAN the Labour certainly isn’t cheap and reverting to a Swedish AOC that will allow NUK/NAS/NAI pilots to fly across AOC is on the cards, remember that NAI is not Norwegian Air Ireland, but Norwegian Air International
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Eiffis
So were does a Swedish AOC come in.
Is that to get overfly rights over Russia, as have been the problem with a Norwegian AOC.
Why another AOC, or maybe you are wrong?
Is that to get overfly rights over Russia, as have been the problem with a Norwegian AOC.
Why another AOC, or maybe you are wrong?
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Swedish AOC is apparently in the pipeline particularly for the Siberian overflight rights and to get away from the hassle of the IAA. US Pilots have been sat on their butts on full pay for well over a year now as the IAA won’t grant authority for FAA licensed Pilots to fly EI reg aircraft. In EasyJet, Pilots can fly G and OE reg in th same day without any problems.