SAS Ireland SAIL

[matt283]

A bit different question I have been wondering how the staff travel works?

What type of concession parc offers?

[Aeromaniac]

Concessions, after 6 months you can ID90 on SAS.
They talk of trying to get Star Alliance concessions but nothing available at last company update. In fact in that they said specifically that it was not a commuter contract!

Apart from that, lowest pay in the industry, hotels are crap, CAE are totally inept and people are resigning fast!
Plus side, crew food is nice, 5/4 roster is ok if you can put up with the low pay (Malaga will be 6/3 roster and lower pay still). Anything to do with SAS seems ok, but they have small input to CAE.

The feeling is if you have another option, take it !

[3MTA3]

When I resigned from SAS Ireland, I sent an email to the DFO. His answer was quite surprising: "I can't acknowledge your resignation, we don't work for the same company"....
It appears that SAS gave the keys of SAS Ireland to Parc, and it's out of control. You receive threatening emails from some obscure frustrated Parc secretary, the roster is a mess, and even the 5/4 doesn't work as usually you get an early flight on day 1 and a late one on day 5. The attitude of Parc makes Ryanair look like a bunch of cute Teletubbies. I've been in many airlines, but I never had to deal with people that rude. This, combined to the lowest T/Cs on the market makes this outfit suitable only if you are desperate or a masochist.
I had to get a lawyer to recuperate my last month salary, even though I left according to the contract, with the proper notice given and my company material given back.

[2802th]

Utter crap

I work for CAE (SAS Ireland) despite what you say the job is good, pay is fair for a Captain 5 to 5500 per month. CC are great, 5/4 is brilliant, yes there is room for improvement but it’s early days. BALPA Membership is growing, conditions will improve. Sounds like sour grapes to me. I can only report what I see and feel and this is not a bad GIG as some of you refer to a job as.

[gubbi123]

3M, what did you expect?

That they would take it easy, when you resigned?

That you agreed to work for a dodgy company offering conditions well below, what the mother company (SAS) needs to pay their pilots for doing the same job?

Bad t&c’s gives a highly unstable workforce (Ryanair suffer from that right now), but they don’t like, when you find a better job... therefore they will act in an abusing way.

May be you should never have joined SAIL?

[heavydane]

3MTA3,
Your experience is pretty much why I left SAS after more than 20 years of employment.
They hate us and take it to a new level with SAIL.
Good luck in Your future endeavors.

Heavydane

[Whisperfail]

Improve?

2802th: Conditions will improve?

Correct me if I’m wrong.
SAIL started with the purpose of keeping the cost for flying crew down. So if the conditions improve, isn’t that the opposite why SAIL exists in the first place? If SAIL crew improve their t&c, I think that the entire idea of having that company under SAS brand flies out that window over there and SAIL will be history.

Dont take me wrong here, of course I would rather see T&C on a acceptable level. But people accepting the current T&C, and then hoping for major increases is what’s wrong here. Increased T&C for sail is just contradictonary.

[3MTA3]

Thanks Heavydane, I must say I couldn't imagine such an attitude coming from a major. This attitude of hating pilots and, still, being willing to run an airline is totally incomprehensible, certainly some form of mental illness.
Gubbi123, to answer your questions, I was looking for a job close to home. On paper, the operation looked promising and I can understand that SAS was trying to cut costs by dodging one of the most expensive and overprotective systems in the world when it comes to labour costs.Other systems exist in Europe where the labor cost is cheaper without being a rip off for the employee.Since I was part of the first pilots joining I couldn't have any feedback. It turned out that none of the promises were kept except for one: the crappy salary. Actually this one exceeded all of my expectations.
Concerning the resignation part, during my stay in this company I kept on receiving offers for other jobs coming from my employer: Parc. I didn't expect them to take it easy, but I expected them to take it professionally as I didn't slam the door and I resigned according to the terms of my contract. Now I know that it was the first and the last time I've been working for these useless meat sellers, especially after witnessing their total incompetence on every single domain. They were incapable on booking plane or train tickets, hotels, transport to the sim, even a proper OCC or sim session. And they always serve you the same lousy excuse : "we're a startup, you knew about it". From the secretary unable of accomplishing a task a toddler would manage to the one threatening you to cover her mistakes, now I see Parc as a modern times Midas turning gold into crap. One of the guys, quite pissed off that a secretary couldn't match his logbook pages, decided to draw on the corners a triangle, a star, a circle so she could match the circle with the circle, the star with the star… Well, she failed. The same way she failed at obtaining us an airport pass. They had to re do the process from scratch 3 times, and when they started panicking when they realized that none of the pilots had a pass, they started putting the blame on us and started sending threatening emails.
So now, I'm back to the other side of the world working for an imperfect airline, but an airline that uses the magic word "please" when they ask me for a favor and apologize and assume the consequences when they made a mistake. In another word, they treat me like a human being.

[172_driver]

Thanks Heavydane, I must say I couldn't imagine such an attitude coming from a major. This attitude of hating pilots and, still, being willing to run an airline is totally incomprehensible, certainly some form of mental illness.
Gubbi123, to answer your questions, I was looking for a job close to home. On paper, the operation looked promising and I can understand that SAS was trying to cut costs by dodging one of the most expensive and overprotective systems in the world when it comes to labour costs.Other systems exist in Europe where the labor cost is cheaper without being a rip off for the employee.

They hate pilots and they hate taxes, both of which is a major expense for them. Don't expect them to like one and not the other. There is no honour in this business.

[3MTA3]

I can't agree more, 172. This job became a game of survival. No pleasure, no money, no future. Very punk indeed.

[gubbi123]

3M

I am there too, but didn’t volunteer for it (now Cityjet employee, former SAS Group). So I know what is is like, since SAS still offers ok conditions, but Cityjet don’t. I will not complain, but just keep on looking for a better job....

Let me comment on that “SAS hates pilots”. IMHO that is not correct. SAS hates the strong unions, which makes it impossible to have a sound and strong company, earning money to the shareholders, let alone that most Co-Pilots on long haul earns 75-80.000 £ a year in basic salary, which is almost double of what the market dictates if is was not regulated by unions and Collective Agreements. And SAS hates the fact, that they have not been able to change the political level, so the tax level is the same for all European players on the market. This has undermining SAS business strategy for many years, but now the SAS board have had it. They will keep on outsourcing what ever they can, to SAIL, Cityjet, Regional Oü, Air Nostrum, and other players like them.

[CaptainProp]

let alone that most Co-Pilots on long haul earns 75-80.000 £ a year in basic salary, which is almost double of what the market dictates if is was not regulated by unions and Collective Agreements.

I have no invested interest in either SAS or SAIL but that statement is incorrect.

From pay thread here in same forum:
VA FO 1st year £72K basic, £16K fixed flight pay and about £12K variable allowances.
In BA I think FOs start around £60K and tops out at £130 ish plus extras.
KLM €185K? AF similar? Even EasyJet FOs, so short haul FOs, on EU contracts should be able to reach almost €100K if not upgraded before.

CP

[heavydane]

Guppi,

I beg to differ.
The absolut strongest pilot union is USAlpa and the US carriers are literally printing money at the moment. Why? Because the airlines are more interested in making money than fighting with their key employees.
SAS LH fo’s have a minimum of 18 years seniority, hence the higher pay.
I have spent some years with the union at SAS and been in the room with several of the CEO’s including the present one. Make no mistake, they hate us and our ability to stay organized. Thereby denying them the possibility to intimidate and threaten us the way the could in the 1930.

Regards
Heavydane

[gubbi123]

Cap prop, hd is correct, that the high pay is due to the high seniority. And it is 75-80 £ on LH in SAS.

But I also believe that 75-80/year is almost the double of what the market dictates; just look at what pilots accept in Norwegian LH,with European base.

Not saying that the long haul Co Pilots does not deserve their salary. How can I judge that....?

[CaptainProp]

I didn’t say that the quoted pay was wrong, just that it’s not above market rates at all and I proved the argument by stating other LH FO pay rates.

CP

[Enzo999]

Originally Posted by CaptainProp

I have no invested interest in either SAS or SAIL but that statement is incorrect.

From pay thread here in same forum:
VA FO 1st year £72K basic, £16K fixed flight pay and about £12K variable allowances.
In BA I think FOs start around £60K and tops out at £130 ish plus extras.
KLM €185K? AF similar? Even EasyJet FOs, so short haul FOs, on EU contracts should be able to reach almost €100K if not upgraded before.

CP

The 72k basic at VA includes the fixed pay. Additional pay is about £6k a year paid on to a special card supposiably used for down Route spending.

Year 1 BA FO is about 60k with another 12 to 15 added on.

[A320baby]

Originally Posted by Enzo999

The 72k basic at VA includes the fixed pay. Additional pay is about £6k a year paid on to a special card supposiably used for down Route spending.

Year 1 BA FO is about 60k with another 12 to 15 added on.

spot on Enzo

[CaptainProp]

My point remains, SAS LH FO pay is not higher than what other major airline FOs are making flying LH operations.

CP

[172_driver]

Longhaul and shorthaul pilots in SAS are on the same pay scale... but it's not that easy. All longhaul FOs today were hired before a B-scale was introduced so the quoted £75-80k per year may be true. However after the reconciliation of the A and B scale, which in itself led to industrial action, FOs are subject to a salary cap which reduces the final FO pay significantly. In effect, a long haul FO in 15-20 years will not see £75-80k even (if nothing changes..). One could argue that due to the high employer social security in Sweden a given gross salary is worth more there than in the UK for instance. I am thinking what's part of the parcel being a citizen in Sweden. Free nursery, university, health care, paid parental leave and so on...... You don't join SAS mainline to be rich, you join them to enjoy a fairly comfortable lifestyle. My 2 cents.

[gubbi123]

Originally Posted by gubbi123

let alone that most Co-Pilots on long haul earns 75-80.000 £ a year in basic salary, which is almost double of what the market dictates if is was not regulated by unions and Collective Agreements.

My point also remains.

And true that future Co-Pilots in SAS, can expext to be lower paid than other legacy company pilots.