SAS Ireland SAIL
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
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R1ddle,
I will naturally be pleasant to any crew I meet, colleagues as competitors. Any SAS pilot will, if they look themselves deep in the mirror, understand there is a human behind any SAIL position who does what’s best for him/her and their family. You can hate the game but not the players. With that said, I don’t think SAIL should’ve ever seen the light and I do react when you say that you help us and saving us money. That’s quite arrogant to say and nothing you or I know much about as normal line pilots. I wonder how many support functions SAIL is borrowing from SAS “free of charge”.
There is definitely sceptism about the direction this airline is heading. Some reasons that’s so 1. The Scandinavian image, we now often have flights without any Scandinavian speaking members (not only SAIL but other sub-contractors too). 2. Career progression, halted when we loose our work to SAIL. They’re actively looking for voluntary leave of absence. Hope that won’t escalate into layoffs... 3. The moral of flagging out the operation. We live in a country with a developed welfare system, with lots of service ranging from free nursery for our kids to free university degrees. I wonder if our own CEO forgot who paid his very own master? It sure wasn’t Ireland.
Gnarlberg,
You numbers are off. I don’t have the exact ones in front of me but I think you start in the region of 37 000 SEK/month if rated, a bit less if not rated. No flight pay, same salary regarding of hours. Per diem depends on your destination, number of overnights and stop duration. You can see up to 8000 SEK/month in per diem. Do what you want with it, dine nice, spend on beer or save up.
I will naturally be pleasant to any crew I meet, colleagues as competitors. Any SAS pilot will, if they look themselves deep in the mirror, understand there is a human behind any SAIL position who does what’s best for him/her and their family. You can hate the game but not the players. With that said, I don’t think SAIL should’ve ever seen the light and I do react when you say that you help us and saving us money. That’s quite arrogant to say and nothing you or I know much about as normal line pilots. I wonder how many support functions SAIL is borrowing from SAS “free of charge”.
There is definitely sceptism about the direction this airline is heading. Some reasons that’s so 1. The Scandinavian image, we now often have flights without any Scandinavian speaking members (not only SAIL but other sub-contractors too). 2. Career progression, halted when we loose our work to SAIL. They’re actively looking for voluntary leave of absence. Hope that won’t escalate into layoffs... 3. The moral of flagging out the operation. We live in a country with a developed welfare system, with lots of service ranging from free nursery for our kids to free university degrees. I wonder if our own CEO forgot who paid his very own master? It sure wasn’t Ireland.
Gnarlberg,
You numbers are off. I don’t have the exact ones in front of me but I think you start in the region of 37 000 SEK/month if rated, a bit less if not rated. No flight pay, same salary regarding of hours. Per diem depends on your destination, number of overnights and stop duration. You can see up to 8000 SEK/month in per diem. Do what you want with it, dine nice, spend on beer or save up.
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i have experienced that in my company.
what is the next step? SAIL gets the interesting slots. then SAS goes bankrupt and the big German knocks on the door to "help". And what is he going to buy? exactly, SAIL. Aircraft and Slots maybe with crew. And all people working in Scandinavia can look for a new job. They took all their capital and put it into SAIL and let a big company buy out SAIL, because then they get the slots and aircraft without buying the whole "toxic" cake. Why? because he "
" already has camo maintenance ato crewing and all other overhead. welcome to 2018 ladies and gentleman. exactly what happened in Germany.
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Raski
Not everybody can handle the truth, they'd rather speculate and hope the best. The fact is that the CoS offered are absolutely crap and will NOT attract solid, experienced pilots. Deal with it!
Not everybody can handle the truth, they'd rather speculate and hope the best. The fact is that the CoS offered are absolutely crap and will NOT attract solid, experienced pilots. Deal with it!
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Im not at SAIL but I have been up in Helsinki during winter to operate for a local airline there. I don't think Scandinavian winters are something special, I would more say its easier than central european.
If the snow falls in Arlanda, so what? where is the problem? They are professionals in handling the snow, deicing, getting the airbus computers to work when its cold. Sure, braking action "good" isnt always good, its sometimes medium to poor, but we´re talking about an A320 landing, not Mriya A225 ! Same as the tailwind on "14" in LSZH. 3 knot tail on ATIS; 15 in real. Local specials you need to adapt to....
Its so easy flying up north in the winter in my opinion.
Imagine FCO, 5 cm of snow. They first need to get all deicers from the coffee machine , and every pilot is scared of taxiing on Ice/Snow so the whole airport would breakdown. Same in germany, france etc. its always a surprise that the winter starts in december....
If you have drifted a bit with cars in the alps on snow you know how an aircraft handles and that you need to make smooth inputs and be relaxed and not afraid.
So SAIL pilots are skilled exactly as other pilots. They're for sure doing a great job.
If the snow falls in Arlanda, so what? where is the problem? They are professionals in handling the snow, deicing, getting the airbus computers to work when its cold. Sure, braking action "good" isnt always good, its sometimes medium to poor, but we´re talking about an A320 landing, not Mriya A225 ! Same as the tailwind on "14" in LSZH. 3 knot tail on ATIS; 15 in real. Local specials you need to adapt to....
Its so easy flying up north in the winter in my opinion.
Imagine FCO, 5 cm of snow. They first need to get all deicers from the coffee machine , and every pilot is scared of taxiing on Ice/Snow so the whole airport would breakdown. Same in germany, france etc. its always a surprise that the winter starts in december....
If you have drifted a bit with cars in the alps on snow you know how an aircraft handles and that you need to make smooth inputs and be relaxed and not afraid.
So SAIL pilots are skilled exactly as other pilots. They're for sure doing a great job.
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You can "imagine" FCO in snow if you like but the reality on the day is that FCO is sunny and Helsinki is +SN BA Medium Medium Poor and so is every alternate around Helsinki
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Easy places
ARN, HEL, OSL are the easy airports to operate to, try going to TOS, BOO, KKN, ALF or OSD for that matter in real winter ops and I would think you would revise the easy part...
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You'll be speaking to deaf ears, mate. With the CoS on offer, most of the recruits will be all over the place, picture Bambi on wet ice! Left, right, centre, with SAS painted on the tail! The greatest question of all it - who will be held accountable! The low substandard paid Commander for sure, but what about upper management? Who will that be? Who's the accountable manager?
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R1ddle,
Aside from me understanding and respecting that You have mouths to feed, the rest of Your statement and many other SAIL pilots with You is utter rubish.
You are looking out for number one and in no way are You helping SAS.
We have seen it all before with Spanair, Blue One et al. Companies with lower operating cost due to heavy subsidies from the mother ship, created only to put pressure on mainline T&C's. Nothing good will come from SAIL except a few unfortunate pilots able to feed their families for a while. SAIL is a cancer in SAS and the sooner its gone the better.
Aside from me understanding and respecting that You have mouths to feed, the rest of Your statement and many other SAIL pilots with You is utter rubish.
You are looking out for number one and in no way are You helping SAS.
We have seen it all before with Spanair, Blue One et al. Companies with lower operating cost due to heavy subsidies from the mother ship, created only to put pressure on mainline T&C's. Nothing good will come from SAIL except a few unfortunate pilots able to feed their families for a while. SAIL is a cancer in SAS and the sooner its gone the better.
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Cheers to that! BUT again, speaking to ignorant deaf ears! Hey these suckers just took on a pathetic contract and now work for a "legacy" carrier.. Oh boy, if only they knew how the rest of the world actually look at them, in their pretty SAS uniforms... "The same standard.." yeahhhh.
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This isn’t a pissing contest (or shouldn’t be) who’s got higher standards. Flying northern Norway and you’ll benefit from the wisdom of those who’ve done so before. And good handling skills is needed.
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Before Monarch failed, failure rate for the SAIL sim assessment was running at 40%.
So I reckon there are some high standards on the line.
Oh, I know several people who got into BA on the 4th attempt. Yet people think it's full of the best and elite.
So I reckon there are some high standards on the line.
Oh, I know several people who got into BA on the 4th attempt. Yet people think it's full of the best and elite.
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I am one of the SAIL Captains. Yes I was a loyal ex Monarch employee, and being British I wanted to fly in my home country. Ex military and 22 years mainly long haul and I’m no where near the most experienced in SAIL. Our experience level smashes Easy and others into another universe. Anyone with any doubts about the ability, and capability of the workforce should spend time in the winter in the US, Canada, Innsbruck etc etc if they doubt our abilities to operate in cold weather. As for standards, as previously said on here, the selection failure rate prior to the demise of Monarch was over 50%, guess what it’s virtually nil now and before you ask, no, not all the examiners are ex Monarch!
Is it fair to SAS Mainline Pilots, possibly not, but my experience of 35 years in professional aviation has shown me clearly the disparity that exists in European airlines and who gets jobs in them. Most UK airlines have many pilots from all European countries. My UK colleagues are basically excluded from all the major European carriers no second third language etc etc. Yes this is the reality like it or not.
Is the airline working? oh yes, we are under a massive microscope and one initial factor is OTP and guess what we are doing better than our mainline colleagues despite the best efforts of the ground based handling individuals to sabotage that. I am one of the fortunate ones in this sorry industry, I fly because I choose to, not because I have to. I do have many friends who are less fortunate and a jobs a job. Ask yourself this, if your mortgage arrears were growing, your wife and children were increasingly upset, would you really not take the SAIL job, based on your principals?
Will it succeed, I don’t know, I’ll have hung my boots up by then, as this is my last (only second) job and I’ll sit back and watch as the reality of the future in this industry unfolds, knowing I had some of the true best of it.
Is it fair to SAS Mainline Pilots, possibly not, but my experience of 35 years in professional aviation has shown me clearly the disparity that exists in European airlines and who gets jobs in them. Most UK airlines have many pilots from all European countries. My UK colleagues are basically excluded from all the major European carriers no second third language etc etc. Yes this is the reality like it or not.
Is the airline working? oh yes, we are under a massive microscope and one initial factor is OTP and guess what we are doing better than our mainline colleagues despite the best efforts of the ground based handling individuals to sabotage that. I am one of the fortunate ones in this sorry industry, I fly because I choose to, not because I have to. I do have many friends who are less fortunate and a jobs a job. Ask yourself this, if your mortgage arrears were growing, your wife and children were increasingly upset, would you really not take the SAIL job, based on your principals?
Will it succeed, I don’t know, I’ll have hung my boots up by then, as this is my last (only second) job and I’ll sit back and watch as the reality of the future in this industry unfolds, knowing I had some of the true best of it.
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Sorry about Monarch going down and leaving you without a job.
Just know one thing, if you don't already, that SAIL is just another race to the bottom experiment from SAS. It's a union busting exercise.
Luckily for your, by the sound of it, you'll have left this industry before the next "great" thing happens. Welcome to taking on the job that actively helps erode the industry, not that I blame you for you're desperation after Monarch, just don't expect everybody else to endorse it.
Guess what? in 5-10 years SAIL will be deemed too expensive and what will management do? Can you guess it?
Just know one thing, if you don't already, that SAIL is just another race to the bottom experiment from SAS. It's a union busting exercise.
Luckily for your, by the sound of it, you'll have left this industry before the next "great" thing happens. Welcome to taking on the job that actively helps erode the industry, not that I blame you for you're desperation after Monarch, just don't expect everybody else to endorse it.
Guess what? in 5-10 years SAIL will be deemed too expensive and what will management do? Can you guess it?
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Returnofthemack
You avoided answering the question though, about what you would do, if God forbid, you found yourself in the same position......bills to be paid, wife/kids upset etc.
Or would you put your principles before your family?
You avoided answering the question though, about what you would do, if God forbid, you found yourself in the same position......bills to be paid, wife/kids upset etc.
Or would you put your principles before your family?
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Well returnofthemack if you truly believe that, why don’t you band together with all your like minded colleagues grow a pair and fight to protect your T&Cs? Surely that’s more effective than bleating on here under anonymity? Are you on The flybe/cityjet threads and bleating at them for operating sas routes?