EK advertising on radio for pilots!
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EK advertising on radio for pilots!
Whatever next. Emirates advertising on both LBC and Capital radio I believe for pilots. Never before have I heard of a company needing to use mainstream media to trawl for
pilots
pilots
Last edited by saddest aviator; 23rd Mar 2017 at 12:18. Reason: Spellimg
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I think it fair to say the ME airlines are rapidly approaching the 'extremely desperate' stage. It's time for them to start paying Chinese rates and up the T&Cs (considerably) to attract anyone to the sandpit.
That does sound desperate but there is clearly a limit to the number of people prepared to live/work in that part of the world. Could bases in other countries be in the pipeline? That would certainly attract a bigger pool of prospective employees. What next, adverts in the Job Centre?
Last edited by Doug E Style; 23rd Mar 2017 at 15:46. Reason: Speling
They have never had cabin crew based in the UK.
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They've never had cabin crew based in UK or any other Country apart from Dubai. All crew, pilots and cabin crew, live in UAE.
As for the package, 47,000 Dirhams per month is the starting salary for B777 Captains with required experience. Accommodation allowance is 16k per month if you choose to live out, another 6,000 per month education allowance per child up to maximum of 3. Just under 6,000 per month from The Company as Provident contribution. This is for line pilots, trainers will get more obviously. 70,000 is a conservative monthly ball park, excluding any overtime and education allowance. 840k Dhs per year is equivalent of £180K tax free, or £15,000 per month with current exchange rate (4.7). When relatively senior BA training guys take home around 10-11 after tax, the money is not the issue. A figure of £300k take home in UK is simply dreaming.
The issue at EK is not so much the money, but the work rate with unsustainable rosters, particularly on the B777. A380 F/O's are getting 15-16 days off every month, 95% are layovers. B777 skippers are doing 100 hours many months, 8-9 days off, 10 if you're lucky with a mix of night turns and layovers with some crappy timings. Most layovers are 24 hrs including home base, ironically the most tiring rest period and one 'recommended' in the ops manual to avoid.
People leave and not enough are joining. The package DOES need to be increased, simply to attract new joiners. More join, work becomes less, people stay. Part time may be on the horizon but only if the numbers increase. I can't see commuting contracts but desperate times call for desperate measures so you just never know.
The only thing that remains constant in this place is change!
As for the package, 47,000 Dirhams per month is the starting salary for B777 Captains with required experience. Accommodation allowance is 16k per month if you choose to live out, another 6,000 per month education allowance per child up to maximum of 3. Just under 6,000 per month from The Company as Provident contribution. This is for line pilots, trainers will get more obviously. 70,000 is a conservative monthly ball park, excluding any overtime and education allowance. 840k Dhs per year is equivalent of £180K tax free, or £15,000 per month with current exchange rate (4.7). When relatively senior BA training guys take home around 10-11 after tax, the money is not the issue. A figure of £300k take home in UK is simply dreaming.
The issue at EK is not so much the money, but the work rate with unsustainable rosters, particularly on the B777. A380 F/O's are getting 15-16 days off every month, 95% are layovers. B777 skippers are doing 100 hours many months, 8-9 days off, 10 if you're lucky with a mix of night turns and layovers with some crappy timings. Most layovers are 24 hrs including home base, ironically the most tiring rest period and one 'recommended' in the ops manual to avoid.
People leave and not enough are joining. The package DOES need to be increased, simply to attract new joiners. More join, work becomes less, people stay. Part time may be on the horizon but only if the numbers increase. I can't see commuting contracts but desperate times call for desperate measures so you just never know.
The only thing that remains constant in this place is change!
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Since BA has once again been dragged into a post about Emirates! Again!�� (I wonder why?)
Attempting to generalise senior BA training captain's take home pay is rather difficult. I know for a fact, some take home very significantly more than £180k. A top scale bog standard line pilot would do that if they lived in a tax free regime. Which more are doing, and the lifestyle allows. (They also spend less time commuting by air, than I do by car!)
They don't have to live in the sandpit either, nor work for middle eastern employers, with all the issues that entails!! Sounds to me like anyone working there for less than £300k is selling themselves short. No wonder people avoid the place like the plague, and people vote with their feet.
But I find Dubai a great place. To visit!
Attempting to generalise senior BA training captain's take home pay is rather difficult. I know for a fact, some take home very significantly more than £180k. A top scale bog standard line pilot would do that if they lived in a tax free regime. Which more are doing, and the lifestyle allows. (They also spend less time commuting by air, than I do by car!)
They don't have to live in the sandpit either, nor work for middle eastern employers, with all the issues that entails!! Sounds to me like anyone working there for less than £300k is selling themselves short. No wonder people avoid the place like the plague, and people vote with their feet.
But I find Dubai a great place. To visit!
Last edited by 4468; 24th Mar 2017 at 09:33.
4468, get off your high horse man. Do a few sums on 180k GBP tax free and figure it out. I'm not a trainer, nor do I do a lot of overtime, but Harry's assessment is correct in both financially terms and workload. My salary last year as a mid seniority 777 CPT was in the range of 160 GBP take home after deductions. The money isn't the issue, the workload is, hence the continued exodus.
4468, get off your high horse man. Do a few sums on 180k GBP tax free and figure it out. I'm not a trainer, nor do I do a lot of overtime, but Harry's assessment is correct in both financially terms and workload. My salary last year as a mid seniority 777 CPT was in the range of 160 GBP take home after deductions. The money isn't the issue, the workload is, hence the continued exodus.
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When relatively senior BA training guys take home around 10-11 after tax, the money is not the issue. A figure of £300k take home in UK is simply dreaming.
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Harry's assessment is correct
My question is, why do EK pilots ALWAYS drag BA into threads about EK??? Odd that isn't it?🙄
wiggy
If you don't know of BA pilots who can perfectly legally, earn tax free salary, whilst living in Europe, then you aren't talking to the right people!
If there's an exodus from EK, then I'm very glad I don't have to work there! Whatever the money, it clearly isn't worth it!
Why not turn over a new leaf chaps, and leave BA out of discussions about how crap EK is??
Just to stop the "tax free" comments distorting further debate FWIW I live in Europe, do talk to people and I very much doubt any pilot in BA is earning a completely tax free salary ( regardless of where you reside at the UK end you will pay full NI, and HMRC always assess you annually for income tax based on your U.K. Duties ), though some may claim otherwise in the bar or on the jumpseat. That said I agree with:
Why not turn over a new leaf chaps, and leave BA out of discussions about how crap EK is??
Originally Posted by 4468;
Why not turn over a new leaf chaps, and leave BA out of discussions about how crap EK is??
Last edited by wiggy; 24th Mar 2017 at 11:03.
4468, the reason BA is used is because it is or was considered a benchmark by a lot of senior people here, or it used to be, given the numbers from the uk in various roles employed.
Backhanded as it may seem, I'd view BA being used as an example as a positive, at least we can hang on to that, rather than how wonderful Ansett used to be.
Maybe given time, you won't have to read much more about it on here 4468, the numbers of recruits from more "austere" locations and regulatory environments is definitely on the increase at EK...I even had occasion to remind the TRI on the flight deck that conversing in English rather than his native version meant I could understand what him and my F/O were discussing during our line check.
Backhanded as it may seem, I'd view BA being used as an example as a positive, at least we can hang on to that, rather than how wonderful Ansett used to be.
Maybe given time, you won't have to read much more about it on here 4468, the numbers of recruits from more "austere" locations and regulatory environments is definitely on the increase at EK...I even had occasion to remind the TRI on the flight deck that conversing in English rather than his native version meant I could understand what him and my F/O were discussing during our line check.
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Thanks MM.
I do get that.
Wow. In that case £300k is sounding about the right figure!
I do get that.
I even had occasion to remind the TRI on the flight deck that conversing in English rather than his native version meant I could understand what him and my F/O were discussing during our line check.
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4468
Odd? No, not at all.
I was in no way deriding the salary at BA, far from it. BA is still seen as the benchmark within the UK and an airline that most UK based pilots would aspire to work for. Most, not all. The BA remuneration was provided as a reference for those expecting miracles and to drive home the most important message of this thread that it isn't just the money that attracts people. If an EK new joiner can take home 20-25% more then a fairly senior BA guy, does it not merely highlight what a problem EK is facing. I don't hear BA advertising on the radio, neither do I hear of an exodus of their pilots unlike Emirates.
Curiously, what airlines do your BALPA representatives use as a reference during the yearly pay negotiations, or are they too not allowed to 'drag' other airlines T&C's into a discussion? Not sure why the sensitivity but on a public forum, we're all fair game for comparison!
Odd? No, not at all.
I was in no way deriding the salary at BA, far from it. BA is still seen as the benchmark within the UK and an airline that most UK based pilots would aspire to work for. Most, not all. The BA remuneration was provided as a reference for those expecting miracles and to drive home the most important message of this thread that it isn't just the money that attracts people. If an EK new joiner can take home 20-25% more then a fairly senior BA guy, does it not merely highlight what a problem EK is facing. I don't hear BA advertising on the radio, neither do I hear of an exodus of their pilots unlike Emirates.
Curiously, what airlines do your BALPA representatives use as a reference during the yearly pay negotiations, or are they too not allowed to 'drag' other airlines T&C's into a discussion? Not sure why the sensitivity but on a public forum, we're all fair game for comparison!