Considering leaving BA
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Considering leaving BA
Firstly this is not a troll post it is genuine and is not driven by BA being a bad, good or indifferent employer.
Personally when it matters they look after you well but my lifestyle had been none existent for a good number of years. My kids say they don't know me and my wife says I am not part of family life. Not unfixable but she has a good point.
The hard part is actually doing something about it if I were to leave BA. I am a captain on the 320 fleet and I have heard of a few guys leaving to go to Easy as DEC. Does anyone have any information about DEC placements? Careers page is down at the moment and I am not quite ready to pick up the phone to a recruitment agency right now.
Like I said. Its not a troll post. BA is a good employer. I am lucky to be here and enjoy my job, but maybe I am one of the few who may just be happier elsewhere.
Thanks
Personally when it matters they look after you well but my lifestyle had been none existent for a good number of years. My kids say they don't know me and my wife says I am not part of family life. Not unfixable but she has a good point.
The hard part is actually doing something about it if I were to leave BA. I am a captain on the 320 fleet and I have heard of a few guys leaving to go to Easy as DEC. Does anyone have any information about DEC placements? Careers page is down at the moment and I am not quite ready to pick up the phone to a recruitment agency right now.
Like I said. Its not a troll post. BA is a good employer. I am lucky to be here and enjoy my job, but maybe I am one of the few who may just be happier elsewhere.
Thanks
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Bex: Forget it. It would be by far the worst decision of your life. The grass is absolutely not greener on the low cost side of the pond. Actually the grass is pretty brown. That's why I left low cost for a commuting Chinese job.
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That's exactly the trouble with us as human beings. We are constantly driven to try and better our situation and seek other options. Never being satisfied is what has driven us forward as a race but what also has the tendency to ruin us at times. I've been at both easy and BA and believe me, there are genuine complaints and grumbles at both. Nowhere is a nirvana nowadays. If you think operating out of Heathrow is a pain (and it is) Gatwick is its identikit little brother (with slightly less holding - emphasis on slightly). That's more for other people than yourself as you've stated your particular issues.
I had this discussion with an ex colleague who is joining us this year from easy who had concerns about the number of negative posts from BA pilots on here. His words were along the lines of "can you imagine the thread you could make out of easyJet at Gatwick?" You can't put it better than that. I flew with ex Monarch DEC's and a DEC from another previous airline who absolutely couldn't stand the place and I could tell regretted the move.
Ultimately you could arguably better your situation by escaping Gatwick and being in a nice regional base at easyJet but also remember that it will take you many, many years to achieve that situation, no one is in a hurry to leave the likes of Edinburgh or Bristol. I've got a mate in easy who's a skipper, has been in over ten years and is still waiting for Edinburgh. By the time you'd have waited for that at easyJet if you'd stayed at BA you'd have built up a decent level of seniority and have a much better time of things.
The grass is not always greener. Of course if you do decide to take the plunge I won't be complaining about moving a further place up the seniority list ;-)
I had this discussion with an ex colleague who is joining us this year from easy who had concerns about the number of negative posts from BA pilots on here. His words were along the lines of "can you imagine the thread you could make out of easyJet at Gatwick?" You can't put it better than that. I flew with ex Monarch DEC's and a DEC from another previous airline who absolutely couldn't stand the place and I could tell regretted the move.
Ultimately you could arguably better your situation by escaping Gatwick and being in a nice regional base at easyJet but also remember that it will take you many, many years to achieve that situation, no one is in a hurry to leave the likes of Edinburgh or Bristol. I've got a mate in easy who's a skipper, has been in over ten years and is still waiting for Edinburgh. By the time you'd have waited for that at easyJet if you'd stayed at BA you'd have built up a decent level of seniority and have a much better time of things.
The grass is not always greener. Of course if you do decide to take the plunge I won't be complaining about moving a further place up the seniority list ;-)
Last edited by RexBanner; 28th Dec 2016 at 08:44.
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More info needed
Rex.
You're wanting to know what easyJet has over BA.
Stable roster is a starter. Being able to be based somewhere other than London is another.
You haven't elaborated on your resident situation. Do you live 10 minutes from LHR, and would your family be happy to relocate for another job? Have you even enquires about part time, or flexible working due to your children's age?
I know of a huge number of people in both airline and corporate aviation, and lifestyle is the number one issue. What I get as an undertone from your post (and forgive me if I'm wrong), is that you want something different but don't actually know what you want, and are not prepared to take a drop in income to achieve a better home life balance.
For me personally, I have always looked at the time at home as opposed to the financial income aspect. Rotations, rosters and leave allocation is all that matter to me. Would your wife and children complain if you went to work and were gone for 2 weeks, only to be at home not thinking about aviation for the next 2 weeks. If you have teenagers, then most likely they're not bothered if you're there one day to be next (to your face), but don't under estimate the 'coming home every night' part of low cost operations, it really is worth some of the crap you have to put up with.
You're wanting to know what easyJet has over BA.
Stable roster is a starter. Being able to be based somewhere other than London is another.
You haven't elaborated on your resident situation. Do you live 10 minutes from LHR, and would your family be happy to relocate for another job? Have you even enquires about part time, or flexible working due to your children's age?
I know of a huge number of people in both airline and corporate aviation, and lifestyle is the number one issue. What I get as an undertone from your post (and forgive me if I'm wrong), is that you want something different but don't actually know what you want, and are not prepared to take a drop in income to achieve a better home life balance.
For me personally, I have always looked at the time at home as opposed to the financial income aspect. Rotations, rosters and leave allocation is all that matter to me. Would your wife and children complain if you went to work and were gone for 2 weeks, only to be at home not thinking about aviation for the next 2 weeks. If you have teenagers, then most likely they're not bothered if you're there one day to be next (to your face), but don't under estimate the 'coming home every night' part of low cost operations, it really is worth some of the crap you have to put up with.
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Don't do it.
35 and a BA skipper must be as good as it can get.
Sounds to me like you should divorce the wife - the sooner you do it the cheaper it is!
She won't be happy whatever company you're in.
35 and a BA skipper must be as good as it can get.
Sounds to me like you should divorce the wife - the sooner you do it the cheaper it is!
She won't be happy whatever company you're in.
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thanks chaps. Some very valid points and it almost certainly sounds like it could be same crap different shirt.
The issue for me is that of rostering. Yes this is due to change with jeppessen and BA's system does work for most but and its a big but for a very small number of us you never benefit from increasing seniority. If your in the bottom 1/3 today then you will be forever. With a union who have no appetite to address the problem I can't see how I will ever have any sort of lifestyle. Working every weekend and I pretty much mean every weekend drives a big wedge between you and your family. The financial reward at BA in the medium term is considerably less than LHS at easy, if the figures on PPJN are correct. Even the captain base is significantly more.
A handful of my colleagues felt so fed up that they left too. I like the company and my job but if the situation is the same in 5 years time my job maybe all that remains. It's not a decision to be made with haste.
Financially I have a responsibility to provide for my family so yes salary is important but BBJ-Captain you make some excellent points
The issue for me is that of rostering. Yes this is due to change with jeppessen and BA's system does work for most but and its a big but for a very small number of us you never benefit from increasing seniority. If your in the bottom 1/3 today then you will be forever. With a union who have no appetite to address the problem I can't see how I will ever have any sort of lifestyle. Working every weekend and I pretty much mean every weekend drives a big wedge between you and your family. The financial reward at BA in the medium term is considerably less than LHS at easy, if the figures on PPJN are correct. Even the captain base is significantly more.
A handful of my colleagues felt so fed up that they left too. I like the company and my job but if the situation is the same in 5 years time my job maybe all that remains. It's not a decision to be made with haste.
Financially I have a responsibility to provide for my family so yes salary is important but BBJ-Captain you make some excellent points
Bex, you will not get a better position or a better job in aviation.
BA are not perfect, and they have their own share of problems and unhappy staff, but nobody is perfect. Flying is not the job it used to be. In BA there are so many options you could pursue. Different fleets, different bases etc. The grass is not greener elsewhere, the grass everywhere nowadays is a shade of brown.
I would willingly swap with you if it were possible.
Having said that, family and home life are very important. I did not realise how important they really are until after I got divorced and, trust me, you do not want to go through a divorce - especially with children involved - if you can help it.
So my advice to you is to stay in BA and go part time and find a way to live within your reduced means. Or apply for a ground training position perhaps.
BA are not perfect, and they have their own share of problems and unhappy staff, but nobody is perfect. Flying is not the job it used to be. In BA there are so many options you could pursue. Different fleets, different bases etc. The grass is not greener elsewhere, the grass everywhere nowadays is a shade of brown.
I would willingly swap with you if it were possible.
Having said that, family and home life are very important. I did not realise how important they really are until after I got divorced and, trust me, you do not want to go through a divorce - especially with children involved - if you can help it.
So my advice to you is to stay in BA and go part time and find a way to live within your reduced means. Or apply for a ground training position perhaps.
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I can sympathise with some of the problems you are experiencing, however I would suggest there are a number of things you can do to address the situation; part time, parental leave (4wks per year), unpaid leave (seasonal), base change to LGW (where you will get some w'ends off), change to long haul after freeze, OR and this is a big one, a move back to the right seat.
As an aside, I assume given your lack of potential movement that you are an ex-bmi employee. If this is the case, I would continue to push for a move onto the main bid list. This is affecting a number of people, who despite having seniority are being held back in order to feather the nest
of those higher up and protect the long term validity of the ex-bmi bubble. Rumours are currently circulating that the size of the bubble will not work under JSS. If this is the case there will inevitably be a push to integrate the two lists with natural seniority. I suggest the next 18mths could see a real positive change for you.
As an aside, I assume given your lack of potential movement that you are an ex-bmi employee. If this is the case, I would continue to push for a move onto the main bid list. This is affecting a number of people, who despite having seniority are being held back in order to feather the nest
of those higher up and protect the long term validity of the ex-bmi bubble. Rumours are currently circulating that the size of the bubble will not work under JSS. If this is the case there will inevitably be a push to integrate the two lists with natural seniority. I suggest the next 18mths could see a real positive change for you.
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SkyRocket10 there's also the issue that all of these guys who have got quick commands will stay junior in their seat because they are always going to be leapfrogged by the more senior LH people coming back over ahead of them. However that surely formed part of the due diligence in taking the command in the first place. However the extent of the problem for Bex does suggest BMI.
What your roster says and what you actually do bear no resemblance at easy. An example. One month last summer. 18 duties rostered. By the end of the month, 6 were carried out. 24 changes to the other 12 duties, including lates which should have been earlies, some duties not even in the correct country.
Official roster stability as reported 63%.
Official roster stability as reported 63%.
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Why not try and take advantage of Parental Leave to reduce the workload. You can have up to four weeks per child per year that is aged under eighteen.
It reduces your headline salary by dividing your annual salary by 365 per day and it reduces your tax liability if you are over the £100k mark. Your pension contributions may have to reduce but depends if you are in the NAPS or the DC pension
You should seriously explore all these options before you even consider throwing in the towel with BA.
Once you've left there ain't no going back!
If it was a regional or overseas base with EZY you were after then let us know and we could probably give you a rough idea as to wait time to get in.
Do not do anything rash!
It reduces your headline salary by dividing your annual salary by 365 per day and it reduces your tax liability if you are over the £100k mark. Your pension contributions may have to reduce but depends if you are in the NAPS or the DC pension
You should seriously explore all these options before you even consider throwing in the towel with BA.
Once you've left there ain't no going back!
If it was a regional or overseas base with EZY you were after then let us know and we could probably give you a rough idea as to wait time to get in.
Do not do anything rash!
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skyrocket10, thank you for the information. Interesting to hear about JSS hopefully that will improve the situation. I appreciate there is no perfect answer to the bubble and some benefit under the current agreement. What is wrong is that this seemingly has no end. I had no idea about parental leave. I will look into that.
RexBanner: Yep I have no problem with the theory of starting at the bottom and working your way up. But starting at the bottom and staying at the bottom whilst those remaining 4000 odd pilots move up around you is
I think it goes without saying that I do know how fortunate I am to have a job in BA and LHS now. It could easily have been very different.
Its a tough call to voice this officially because your speaking out against some of your colleagues who helped you out earlier on in your career. I do not believe anyone is saying lets do this because it will really screw him, him and her but surly something can be found that is just a little more even. It has been nearly 5 years now.
RexBanner: Yep I have no problem with the theory of starting at the bottom and working your way up. But starting at the bottom and staying at the bottom whilst those remaining 4000 odd pilots move up around you is
I think it goes without saying that I do know how fortunate I am to have a job in BA and LHS now. It could easily have been very different.Its a tough call to voice this officially because your speaking out against some of your colleagues who helped you out earlier on in your career. I do not believe anyone is saying lets do this because it will really screw him, him and her but surly something can be found that is just a little more even. It has been nearly 5 years now.
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Please dont take this the wrong way but both your wife and your children ( if your wife has been actively raising them ) are probably selfish individuals who take all the money you bring home for granted.
What does your wife work at? does she work at all?
What does your wife work at? does she work at all?
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bex88
Can you just explain that please?
I don't think you've actually confirmed whether you are ex-BMI, but some points you are making suggest you are?
It's just that I thought there were a small number of ex-BMIers who simply chose not to come over to BA T&Cs. They are rostered and handled in the exact same way as they always were at BMI? I'm guessing that's not you?
The rest of the ex-BMI captains bid and exist, in a 'bubble'. In this bubble, a representative cross section of lines of work is pre-allocated to that bubble. Those pilots bid according to their seniority. Meaning they are completely insulated from the seniority of any other BA movement on the C320 list.
So in fact you do move up the (relative) seniority, but only when ex-BMI colleagues depart. Just as you always would have??
JSS is of course, an unknown quantity for everyone.
Of course, many other options are available to you, regarding moving off the A320 at Heathrow. You could be home every night if you move to LGW with BA. You could have an easier life by moving to LH. You can take 4 weeks 'Parental Leave' per year for every qualifying child under 18. PTWK should be available. In fact, I would go as far as to say, there's no other airline with more lifestyle choices available, than where you are right now.
If you can't make 'lifestyle' work for you with all the choices available at BA, it's not obvious which airline would be better?
There are of course other types of flying available, which are far more rewarding. (Just not financially so!)
The issue for me is that of rostering. Yes this is due to change with jeppessen and BA's system does work for most but and its a big but for a very small number of us you never benefit from increasing seniority. If your in the bottom 1/3 today then you will be forever. With a union who have no appetite to address the problem I can't see how I will ever have any sort of lifestyle. Working every weekend and I pretty much mean every weekend drives a big wedge between you and your family.
I don't think you've actually confirmed whether you are ex-BMI, but some points you are making suggest you are?
It's just that I thought there were a small number of ex-BMIers who simply chose not to come over to BA T&Cs. They are rostered and handled in the exact same way as they always were at BMI? I'm guessing that's not you?
The rest of the ex-BMI captains bid and exist, in a 'bubble'. In this bubble, a representative cross section of lines of work is pre-allocated to that bubble. Those pilots bid according to their seniority. Meaning they are completely insulated from the seniority of any other BA movement on the C320 list.
So in fact you do move up the (relative) seniority, but only when ex-BMI colleagues depart. Just as you always would have??
JSS is of course, an unknown quantity for everyone.
Of course, many other options are available to you, regarding moving off the A320 at Heathrow. You could be home every night if you move to LGW with BA. You could have an easier life by moving to LH. You can take 4 weeks 'Parental Leave' per year for every qualifying child under 18. PTWK should be available. In fact, I would go as far as to say, there's no other airline with more lifestyle choices available, than where you are right now.
If you can't make 'lifestyle' work for you with all the choices available at BA, it's not obvious which airline would be better?
There are of course other types of flying available, which are far more rewarding. (Just not financially so!)
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If you could get DEC with easyJet it is worth consideration. LGW is hard work but the regional bases are good.
Hope the family are able to support the decision you need to make.
Good luck
Hope the family are able to support the decision you need to make.
Good luck
