Would you suggest being an airline pilot as a carreer?
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Would you suggest being an airline pilot as a carreer?
Hi all.
I've been an airline pilot for 21 years now. I guess I was lucky enough, but I do think that the future of our profession is not as bright as it used to be.
The High School my eldest kid attends, has asked me to come over and talk about being an airline pilot, as they are organizing a "carreer choice week" for the kiddo's. Doctors, engineers, government, army, etc. The eager guys and gals will get a chance to "ask anything" after you have held your personal intro.
So the question is: "would you suggest your airline pilot job to youngsters?"
I've been confronted with this question many times at parties/social events etc. and the last few years, my answer has always been "no". I do not suggest it, because:
1. Outrageous loans that you have to cough up, without a guarantee of a good-paying job.
2. Pay 2 Fly
3. Big chance that you end up in the Sand Pit/China
4. Becoming a system operator rather than a ship commander, as the airline decides for you when to go-around or that the runway is too short
5. Missing out all those b'days/xmas/weekends
6. Up all night, sleep all day
7. .....
So what would you do? Suggest your job at a high school or kindly turn down the invitation....?
I've been an airline pilot for 21 years now. I guess I was lucky enough, but I do think that the future of our profession is not as bright as it used to be.
The High School my eldest kid attends, has asked me to come over and talk about being an airline pilot, as they are organizing a "carreer choice week" for the kiddo's. Doctors, engineers, government, army, etc. The eager guys and gals will get a chance to "ask anything" after you have held your personal intro.
So the question is: "would you suggest your airline pilot job to youngsters?"
I've been confronted with this question many times at parties/social events etc. and the last few years, my answer has always been "no". I do not suggest it, because:
1. Outrageous loans that you have to cough up, without a guarantee of a good-paying job.
2. Pay 2 Fly
3. Big chance that you end up in the Sand Pit/China
4. Becoming a system operator rather than a ship commander, as the airline decides for you when to go-around or that the runway is too short
5. Missing out all those b'days/xmas/weekends
6. Up all night, sleep all day
7. .....
So what would you do? Suggest your job at a high school or kindly turn down the invitation....?
attend the presentation, give a "warts and all" factual presentation and then proceed to debunk a lot of the myths about the "romance" of the job. There is no need to suggest the job but it is best to let the kids know the real facts.
I'd certainly attended and as suggested by gtseraf I'd do an honest pros and cons description, including your "bullet points" (which seem good ones from my POV ) and leave it at that.
FWIW that line of reasoning/discussion (plus witnessing the reality) kept my kids out of the industry.....
FWIW that line of reasoning/discussion (plus witnessing the reality) kept my kids out of the industry.....
Last edited by wiggy; 12th Sep 2016 at 07:35.
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So the question is: "would you suggest your airline pilot job to youngsters?"
Depends if you can guarantee who you will work for before putting your head in there noose.
Depends if you can guarantee who you will work for before putting your head in there noose.
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NO, as simple as that.
The good times are over and won't come back. The job can ruin your health and life depending which company you work for. The respect to the profession has gone and even Legacy Carriers are cutting down severely on T&C s for new hires.
Just my humble opinion��
The good times are over and won't come back. The job can ruin your health and life depending which company you work for. The respect to the profession has gone and even Legacy Carriers are cutting down severely on T&C s for new hires.
Just my humble opinion��
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The straight forward, easy answer is NO, or even better NFW! But you can't just tell them that without digging a little deeper. You've been given a good opportunity to lay the facts down, so you might as well do so in a professional manner. You've been flying for some odd 20 years, so you might want to start things off and tell them why you decided, as a young lad, to become a pilot. How were things back then? What kinds of expectations did you have? What were you told by your parents, teachers, other advisors, friends, commercial pilots etc? And start telling about your career up until now. The good, the bad and the ugly. Talk about how fortune and luck plays a big part of getting to where you want to be, or how you find yourself working in places you never actually thought existed. How are your classmates from flightschool doing? I bet a large percentage of them gave up the dream after having spent a lot of money chasing it, and believing a lot of lies. How many are divorced due to the impact aviation and rostering has had on their lives? And have things improved since Sept 2001, or are we in a deep stall not too far from rock bottom?
I would be thrilled to have this opportunity! Go for it!
I would be thrilled to have this opportunity! Go for it!
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I can tell lots of the NO answers will come from the old school or pilots that went the zero to hero route from one of the big schools which mummy and daddy paid for.
Myself (like many others) had spent many years working in the construction industry saving to fund my training. So I've experienced waking up at 5am for a 12 hour shift 7 days a week in winter.
I've also done my time working for the low cost earning my stripes, Now i'm sitting quite comfortably based in the UK flying long haul for one of the majors.
Would I do it all again? Hell YES i would.
Myself (like many others) had spent many years working in the construction industry saving to fund my training. So I've experienced waking up at 5am for a 12 hour shift 7 days a week in winter.
I've also done my time working for the low cost earning my stripes, Now i'm sitting quite comfortably based in the UK flying long haul for one of the majors.
Would I do it all again? Hell YES i would.
Would you be able to make the same emphatic answer to question "Whether your yesteryear's route into aviation is feasible today", given the state of both construction and airline industry?
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15-20 years ago pay for endorsement arrived in Australia, lots of outrage and "I'll never pay for an endorsement" being sprouted...yet operators still found enough bums to fill seats - however funded.
Now there's variations on the theme - but probably less outright "pay for endorsement".
Things and times change - adapt and understand or perish.
Those looking at a flying career TODAY can only deal with options available TODAY - stories of the "good old days" (and they certainly were) are just that - stories - and of no relevance in their considerations.
Recommend - no.
Discuss the pro/cons - yes, then those who want to be in the 20% who actually get up and enjoy going to work (and still occasionally feel they're ALMOST being payed enough on a sparkling morning takeoff) can give it a go if they desire.
For those who think the purpose in life is solely to be the richest stiff in the cemetery - fill your boots.
Cheers
Now there's variations on the theme - but probably less outright "pay for endorsement".
Things and times change - adapt and understand or perish.
Those looking at a flying career TODAY can only deal with options available TODAY - stories of the "good old days" (and they certainly were) are just that - stories - and of no relevance in their considerations.
Recommend - no.
Discuss the pro/cons - yes, then those who want to be in the 20% who actually get up and enjoy going to work (and still occasionally feel they're ALMOST being payed enough on a sparkling morning takeoff) can give it a go if they desire.
For those who think the purpose in life is solely to be the richest stiff in the cemetery - fill your boots.
Cheers
Last edited by galdian; 12th Sep 2016 at 12:12. Reason: additional wisdom...he said laughing!!
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I've also done my time working for the low cost earning my stripes, Now i'm sitting quite comfortably based in the UK flying long haul for one of the majors.
Would I do it all again? Hell YES i would.
If I could guarantee this career path, or better still direct into the major, then I might advocate it. The LoCo time is a good learning curve, perhaps; depends who it is, but will have some positives. It will cost seniority in the major, but will give you smaller blinkers as a pilot. However, wth no guarantees it's a risky and expensive leap to take: and it could put you onto the nomadic path for life. If the major is not guaranteed you need to be prepared to be an adventurer and go where is necessary. Wanting to be a pilot and being one is the simple thing; being locked into an employer you dislike will destroy you. Changing horses, perhaps a few times, might be the only escape to sanity with all the other stress factors that will entail. Ask the missus 1st.
Would I do it all again? Hell YES i would.
If I could guarantee this career path, or better still direct into the major, then I might advocate it. The LoCo time is a good learning curve, perhaps; depends who it is, but will have some positives. It will cost seniority in the major, but will give you smaller blinkers as a pilot. However, wth no guarantees it's a risky and expensive leap to take: and it could put you onto the nomadic path for life. If the major is not guaranteed you need to be prepared to be an adventurer and go where is necessary. Wanting to be a pilot and being one is the simple thing; being locked into an employer you dislike will destroy you. Changing horses, perhaps a few times, might be the only escape to sanity with all the other stress factors that will entail. Ask the missus 1st.
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Please dont get me wrong, It was been a long painful road. I've travelled and lived aboard, spent 5 years living in Eastern Europe.
The way I see it, I was earning practically the same money now as I was when working in the construction, difference being back then I had to work 7 days a week to achieve that.
Yes I still enjoy coming to work, maybe that will change in years to come, who knows! But at the moment it still beats the construction site.
Cheers
The way I see it, I was earning practically the same money now as I was when working in the construction, difference being back then I had to work 7 days a week to achieve that.
Yes I still enjoy coming to work, maybe that will change in years to come, who knows! But at the moment it still beats the construction site.
Cheers
Last edited by A320baby; 12th Sep 2016 at 13:04. Reason: spelling
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RAT 5
I completely understand your thoughts but believe you've missed the point:
- SOME of the LCC's will grow into more "established" carriers with full service and will compete with legacy carriers;
- unless politics change and protectionism returns some legacy carriers will fail as others have already (or been absorbed/realigned/bankrolled, whatever).
The expectation that getting into a legacy is a "guarantee" for your future is, at best, uncertain looking ahead.
I read in the news constantly the expectation is that people should expect to change jobs "6, 7 times or more" in their careers - why should pilots/piloting be so special to be exempt from the future?
Not saying it's they way I'd prefer it - but that's the way it is.
Deal with today and the future - or perish.
Cheres.
I completely understand your thoughts but believe you've missed the point:
- SOME of the LCC's will grow into more "established" carriers with full service and will compete with legacy carriers;
- unless politics change and protectionism returns some legacy carriers will fail as others have already (or been absorbed/realigned/bankrolled, whatever).
The expectation that getting into a legacy is a "guarantee" for your future is, at best, uncertain looking ahead.
I read in the news constantly the expectation is that people should expect to change jobs "6, 7 times or more" in their careers - why should pilots/piloting be so special to be exempt from the future?
Not saying it's they way I'd prefer it - but that's the way it is.
Deal with today and the future - or perish.
Cheres.
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For further "inspiration", read this thread
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...-positive.html
FWIW, I always tell people, do it only, and ONLY if, you have a passion for it.
Otherwise, it is a pretty damned awful career choice for any intelligent person.
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...-positive.html
FWIW, I always tell people, do it only, and ONLY if, you have a passion for it.
Otherwise, it is a pretty damned awful career choice for any intelligent person.
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I would guess almost everyone has something bad to say about the career.
Look at almost any profession, doctors, nurses, soldiers, police, software programmers, factory workers, etc. How many of these do you pay outlandish fees for education, work long hard hours, work for free (interns), and miss holidays?
Being in the Army/Navy/AirForce is not a real treat, but people still line up to join.
Just how many careers are left that dont fit or match the 7 issues that you raise?
Explain the costs, which in reality, are pretty minimal considering what other professions require. One can join the Airforce and get paid to learn to fly.
Explain that they may be stationed elsewhere. Again, I doubt if this would not be a selling point!
Explain the hours, I really doubt very many people think this is a 9 to 5 job.
A system operator vs a ship commander? Have you noticed how the younger generation spends their time? You may not like the rules, but the automation certainly has made things better and safer.
Speaking of changing horses, how often does anyone stay at one employer these days? Staying at one place these days is more of a negative attribute than anything else. That usually only benefits the employer, not the employee. In programming, more that 3 years at one location means you are not successful at interviewing.
Explain to people how it works and let them decide.
Look at almost any profession, doctors, nurses, soldiers, police, software programmers, factory workers, etc. How many of these do you pay outlandish fees for education, work long hard hours, work for free (interns), and miss holidays?
Being in the Army/Navy/AirForce is not a real treat, but people still line up to join.
Just how many careers are left that dont fit or match the 7 issues that you raise?
Explain the costs, which in reality, are pretty minimal considering what other professions require. One can join the Airforce and get paid to learn to fly.
Explain that they may be stationed elsewhere. Again, I doubt if this would not be a selling point!
Explain the hours, I really doubt very many people think this is a 9 to 5 job.
A system operator vs a ship commander? Have you noticed how the younger generation spends their time? You may not like the rules, but the automation certainly has made things better and safer.
Speaking of changing horses, how often does anyone stay at one employer these days? Staying at one place these days is more of a negative attribute than anything else. That usually only benefits the employer, not the employee. In programming, more that 3 years at one location means you are not successful at interviewing.
Explain to people how it works and let them decide.
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Are you limited to talking only about airline flying? What about instructing, corporate jets, charter/medevac, aerial survey, forest fire suppression, crop dusting, bush flying, flying floats in the North West, or any kind of helicopter flying. It is a big field with many avenues.
I wouldn't recommend it, but I think an honest summary of the profession would include many positives. Even sticking to modern airline flying.
The training cost is slightly misleading. Let's assume that it costs £100k to get a job these days. Time from zero to hero is only around 24 months. Starting salaries are high compared with other careers. I know plenty of 21-25 year old FOs earning £50k. Those pilots will probably get their commands and £100k+ before they're 30 years old.
Conversely, a future doctor or lawyer will study for twice or three times as long and earn half the money upon qualification. By the age of 30 those professionals might be earning as little as a third of the money taken home by an airline Captain.
If you think I exaggerate, let me add that this taken from personal experience. What's more, I know that airline flying is far easier and much more exciting (though it is like comparing apples and pears) than the work a lawyer might do on an average day.
The training cost is slightly misleading. Let's assume that it costs £100k to get a job these days. Time from zero to hero is only around 24 months. Starting salaries are high compared with other careers. I know plenty of 21-25 year old FOs earning £50k. Those pilots will probably get their commands and £100k+ before they're 30 years old.
Conversely, a future doctor or lawyer will study for twice or three times as long and earn half the money upon qualification. By the age of 30 those professionals might be earning as little as a third of the money taken home by an airline Captain.
If you think I exaggerate, let me add that this taken from personal experience. What's more, I know that airline flying is far easier and much more exciting (though it is like comparing apples and pears) than the work a lawyer might do on an average day.
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I would, as long as you realise what you are getting yourself into.
Full-time it is not a sustainable lifestyle. So safe money when you make money and go part-time a.s.a.p.
Having a family is tough when you're not around for two-thirds of the month, but it greatly depends on the character of your better half. She might even enjoy not having you around all the time 😉
It surely beats going to the same office every day. But by the end of the day you're still a regular blue-collar worker. So either you safe money, invest and try to find financial independence from your employer or go into a different direction entirely.
Follow your passion. No matter what your take home pay will be. But be aware of the impact it can have on your social life.
My 2 cents
Full-time it is not a sustainable lifestyle. So safe money when you make money and go part-time a.s.a.p.
Having a family is tough when you're not around for two-thirds of the month, but it greatly depends on the character of your better half. She might even enjoy not having you around all the time 😉
It surely beats going to the same office every day. But by the end of the day you're still a regular blue-collar worker. So either you safe money, invest and try to find financial independence from your employer or go into a different direction entirely.
Follow your passion. No matter what your take home pay will be. But be aware of the impact it can have on your social life.
My 2 cents
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Originally Posted by Bokito
But by the end of the day you're still a regular blue-collar worker.
And my personal opinion after many many years of flying would be YES. I still enjoy the flying! Beats the hell out of office wallahering
