Flybe

[JliderPilot]

Thomson ask for 21k over three years off your salary if non rated and 7k off the salary yr 1 if you are rated. So airlines do want to recoup some of their costs, but 18k is over the top.

[AMS]

Their train set and hence if you want a job there - follow the process otherwise you have a choice to not go there.

[Love_joy]

a cynical attempt to tie a financial millstone to new recruits, to keep them in the company

Got it in one. Attrition is high, very high at present. A significant number of others have their affairs in order for an exit this winter.

Moral has seen a significant increase now that pay & scheduling discussion are closed. Q4 drivers have seen a bump that will close the gap to jet in 3 years. FO's joining now will join a common pay scale on day one.

Commands are currently happening for those hitting the 2000TT mark. Jumps on to the Ejet can be less than 12 months from start date if you're willing to go anywhere.

Current downside; stability none. Flying/duty limits regularly reached by some. Overtime however is available 'on tap' for those that want it.

[JliderPilot]

Is the market at last opening up,for turboprop guys

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/14...&cm=2016-08-04

[maxed-out]

That sounds like Wizz.

[JliderPilot]

Improved Terms now for DEC at Flybe, 33 days leave from the start, 12% pension contribution and now only a 2yr bond.

Cabin Crew < Careers < Corporate | Flybe UK

[G-DAVE]

Whats the point of the 10 tonne requirement? Is the airspace or rules of flying different if the aircraft is under 10 tonnes?

[Reversethrustset]

For the same reason all the other airlines place stipulations on their recruiting requirements, to stop a certain demographic from applying, for instance, a captain flying chieftains will not be suited to the operation.

[G-DAVE]

What about stipulating Multi-Crew time and/or turbine/turbo-prop time, as there are many, many decent operations/operators using aircraft under 10 tonnes. There will be hundreds of highly qualified and competent pilots flying aircraft under 10 tonnes that won't be able to apply.

[Reversethrustset]

G-DAVE I don't really see an issue, the stipulations are quite forgiving to be honest. You won't see lower DEC requirements than that at any other major operator in the UK. Easyjet/jet2 all required alot more than that. The Q400 isn't just your usual run of the mill airplane, it's very unforgiving and is difficult to master if you've never flown anything similar before, particularly if you're a new commander to type with a raw chap in the RHS, and believe me anyone taking the job will be flying with alot of inexperience.

[RexBanner]

I think people tend to over exaggerate the difficulty of the Dash. Yeah it can be tricky to land at times and there's some peculiarities to it (particularly Vmo below FL80 - but you just need to be aware of that and slow down, which you can do quickly). I honestly found energy management for example way more challenging going onto the airbus. The dash could slow down and go down. Easily. Admittedly it doesn't take an awful long time to master on the bus but a CDA on the dash was a piece of piss to achieve. Less so on Jets. I loved the dash (would love to have another go at it) and it's a fantastic aircraft to start on, no question. But let's not pretend it's the Space Shuttle ;-)

[G-DAVE]

Reversethrustset; just by reading your post I would wager money that you've never sat in the business end of a commercial flight, let alone have enough knowledge on the subject to pass comment. Sorry, but there are just too many assumptions (and incorrect ones IMHO) in your post that lead me to think that. So, what you're saying is, flying a completely different aircraft to a Dash, as long as it it more than 10 tonnes, is ok, but one that has a MTOW of 9.9 tonnes or less doesn't give you the same skills? How about a large freighter aircraft over 10 tonnes? One sector, evening flights, only two crew onboard? Thats really helping you learn skills for an operation like FlyBe isn't it?!

Rex Banner, you talk sense! I know people who have moved onto the Dash and they say very similar things to you.

[Matey]

Flybe and Thomson have reached an agreement whereby experienced TOM F/Os go to Flybe on a 3 yr career break as direct entry Commanders, and Flybe F/Os go to TOM to gain experience in the RHS of a jet.

[darkbarly]

Rex does talk sense, yes, but always worth bearing in mind 5000shp assymetric will try to invert you and a 30' prop that wont feather will put you in Seneca performance territory but with 30 tons to keep aloft. 2 idiosyncrasies most bus drivers dont need a back up plan for.

[DooblerChina]

Holy Guacamoli ...

What is wrong with you people!! A jet is a jet is a jet!!! A prop is a prop is a prop!!! they are all the same just different. I went from from a Beech Duchess to a 757 and yes it was a learning curve but bugger me it wasn't that big a deal. It took me two months to get it, are we honestly saying that someone can't come from a king air to a Q400?....... B*llocks!!!

Maybe it's about time that we (as in those who fly big jets) acknowledge the fact that any bugger can do it and stop p*ssing on the the guy who is just trying to further his career........

[DooblerChina]

And Matey, i've heard that rumour also..... but come on.... who's going to swap a TOM FO jet job with all the add ons to fly as a Captain on a Dash for less dosh/ work twice as hard and be treated like sh*t?

Ill answer that.... no one!

I'm sorry to talk so frank but it's about time those in the prop/loco brigade realise that there really is so much more available out there......

[vrb03kt]

who's going to swap a TOM FO jet job with all the add ons to fly as a Captain on a Dash for less dosh/ work twice as hard and be treated like sh*t?

I think that one sentence sums it up perfectly!

As for the weight limitation etc, let's just say that I wouldn't want to be the person going directly into the left hand seat of a dash with 1001 PIC hours on a Chieftain/Kingair and with a brand new FO in the RHS. I agree it's not the space shuttle, and it's not that hard to fly, but I'd rather do my multi-crew airline ops learning curve from the right hand seat. I don't see the requirements as they stand as being particularly restrictive.

[Uplinker]

It might not only be about ability to handle the aircraft.

Flybe is a scheduled, passenger airline. They need a certain minimum commercial experience level in the RHS to support and assist the Captain - Not just pressurised aircraft flying experience up at FL250+, but passenger handling on busy four sector days with 1 hour turnarounds.

The Captain will need help from the RHS in managing the turnarounds, and thinking about missing pax, offloading bags, loadsheets, getting cooperation from busy handling agents, catering, wheel chair pax, tug, push back crew etc. - something you just won't get on the same magnitude with a Kingair or Chieftain* where a few pax are brought out to the aircraft together in a minibus carrying their own baggage, with some snacks in a cool box.

Such things can of course be learned, like everything else, but low cost companys cannot afford to have people who are getting to grips with flying busy commercial schedules, becoming swamped with ground handling as well, leaving the Captain to sort everything.

*(No disrespect whatsoever intended towards those who do fly such aircraft.)

[Chesty Morgan]

That's why they do line training.

[Nil further]

I have the good (mis) fortune to sit in the Airbus next to folk who had never flown anything 18 months ago far less a King Air or whatever .

The vast majority,you never know it . Good training and a great attitude and the basic aptitude ,With those ; anyone can fly any civil aircraft around . The whole point is that civvy flying does not require superheroes or astronauts