Flybe
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Under four years ago Flybe were less than 24 hours away from the shutters coming down and the locks put on the doors. Historically they've been loss making and relied on subsidies from the late Jack Walker. The operation is, in my opinion, still too big to consistently profitably meet the niche that they undoubtedly have. Consider these risks before signing up. In no way do I want to see Flybe fail, quite the opposite, but you have to go into it with your eyes open.
Join Date: Sep 1999
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The airline is a going concern continuing its operations back into profitability. It is in a far better position than it had ever been and stronger to manage challenges.
It requires a bond / sign up for people to remain with them.
It is exactly the same position as many other airlines - with Brexit and other forces changing - it is inevitable there will be significant risks.
They are not asking for money upfront - this is a paper bond which is payable if you choose to leave.
If you want a job then that's the deal - although I can see it not going down too well with skippers and current Q400 people going for this deal.
Which leaves flybe in a position where they still remain short on people -> leading to cancelling flights = challenging times!
It requires a bond / sign up for people to remain with them.
It is exactly the same position as many other airlines - with Brexit and other forces changing - it is inevitable there will be significant risks.
They are not asking for money upfront - this is a paper bond which is payable if you choose to leave.
If you want a job then that's the deal - although I can see it not going down too well with skippers and current Q400 people going for this deal.
Which leaves flybe in a position where they still remain short on people -> leading to cancelling flights = challenging times!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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RAFAT, I have made nothing up, and was in fact looking forward to working from home. My interview was conducted by a guy, not the usual lady, (This is not the place to mention names) but I don't believe that would have made any difference. It was only afterwards when I spoke to a few people, that I knew in the company, they confirmed the bond was correct. The figures, and time line quoted by Jilder Pilot are spot on, as well as his assessment of the company. I was prepared to have some form of bond to cover the ground course, but £18000 is excessive.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I assume you're joining because you want to work for flybe? If that's the case then the bond should be largely irrelevant. If you're not planning on leaving then it won't cost you a penny.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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WMB - Well if you're correct, then to charge you, a Q400 rated pilot, with a bond of £18,000 is unreasonable. It's a training bond and if you don't need all of the training then you shouldn't be charged all of the bond.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Why not sign over your house and first born whilst you're at it using that logic? It's largely irrelevant as after all, you're 100% not going to leave......
Join Date: Jun 2007
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AFA, I think you're mis-interpreting the logic. You're not signing over anything even if the bond is £100k so why would you sign over your first born and house? Yes plans change etc, but you can say that about anything, like why pay Ryanair £30k for a type rating to then realise it's not what you thought it was, or why pay £120k for flight training to only realise the job isn't what it cracked up to be. Yes I agree it's pretty disgraceful making a type rated bod sign an £18k bond but there are choices in life, and those choices are either don't join, call them up and ask exactly why the bond needs signing and what is it for exactly or just get on with it.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Hi everyone...
so the website says starting salary of 64000pounds...is that a good salary if you choose to base yourself in Southampton?
I am asking as i dont live in EU or UK...
and coming off a B737 with no job now would it be a consideration, i know it is going from jet to turbo prop but work is work at the end of the day...your opinions please...
so the website says starting salary of 64000pounds...is that a good salary if you choose to base yourself in Southampton?
I am asking as i dont live in EU or UK...
and coming off a B737 with no job now would it be a consideration, i know it is going from jet to turbo prop but work is work at the end of the day...your opinions please...
Join Date: Dec 2006
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The reason I posted here is to provide some information for others, as I was unaware of the bond prior to interview. A certain amount of bond to cover the ground course and such like is entirely reasonable, but it was the amount and duration that I had the problem with. Many of you have stated why worry if your not going to leave? That is entirely true, but when you find out that the company requires £18000 over three years, you get a bit suspicious. Given the fact that the company is recruiting DEC in the first place is unusual, as there always used to be enough talent in the right seat, ready to make the move. If the guys & girls are leaving, rather than upgrade, then the company has serious problems. From my suspicions point of view it seems that HR is well aware of this, and the large size of the bond is a way to ensure that new joiners have no choice but to stay, once the shine wares of the new job. This is entirely my point of view as an outsider, looking in, and I am sure many reading this will be better placed to pass judgement than me.
Last edited by WMB; 26th Jul 2016 at 09:50. Reason: Error
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Hi WMB
I think the reason for this is that Flybe have had a problem with new pilots arriving, and Flybe having spent money on their type rating, then moving on within a couple of years, months, or even before they’ve finished the type rating course. You cant blame people for doing that after all Flybe is a regional airline paying regional airline salaries, it’s a mainly turboprop operator when most pilots would prefer to fly jets, and has had in the non too distant past (although I don’t think this is a immediate problem now) a question mark over its financial viability.
And that is probably the point of the large bond – it doesn’t hurt those for whom Flybe is the right choice and who want to stay, but it does discourage those who just want to use Flybe as a stepping stone, and in that light is possibly quite a smart move on the part of the company.
As far as your suspicions are concerned, well Flybe has good bits and bad bits: Great people, great training, and a very professional safety and operational culture. Also, once the effects of the recent pay deal are realized in a couple of years, it will have some of the best-paid turboprop pilots anywhere, along with relatively high percentage pension contributions. On the other hand even high turboprop pay doesn’t compare favorably to global average pilot salaries, and Flybe is mainly a turboprop operation with a small jet fleet (the ongoing existence of a jet fleet within the company is in any case probably not a dead certainty), and rostering, partly due to the pilot shortage, is pretty ‘bloody’ at the moment, with full timers averaging close to a 5 on 2 off pattern, which combined with increasingly long days is probably unsustainable in the long run.
I think the reason for this is that Flybe have had a problem with new pilots arriving, and Flybe having spent money on their type rating, then moving on within a couple of years, months, or even before they’ve finished the type rating course. You cant blame people for doing that after all Flybe is a regional airline paying regional airline salaries, it’s a mainly turboprop operator when most pilots would prefer to fly jets, and has had in the non too distant past (although I don’t think this is a immediate problem now) a question mark over its financial viability.
And that is probably the point of the large bond – it doesn’t hurt those for whom Flybe is the right choice and who want to stay, but it does discourage those who just want to use Flybe as a stepping stone, and in that light is possibly quite a smart move on the part of the company.
As far as your suspicions are concerned, well Flybe has good bits and bad bits: Great people, great training, and a very professional safety and operational culture. Also, once the effects of the recent pay deal are realized in a couple of years, it will have some of the best-paid turboprop pilots anywhere, along with relatively high percentage pension contributions. On the other hand even high turboprop pay doesn’t compare favorably to global average pilot salaries, and Flybe is mainly a turboprop operation with a small jet fleet (the ongoing existence of a jet fleet within the company is in any case probably not a dead certainty), and rostering, partly due to the pilot shortage, is pretty ‘bloody’ at the moment, with full timers averaging close to a 5 on 2 off pattern, which combined with increasingly long days is probably unsustainable in the long run.
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Anodyne. I think all understand and accept the bond where type rating is involved, but the issue raised here is why it is applied to those already type rated and current.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Hi JaxofMarlow
I imagine the argument would be essentially the same: after all, even someone with a type rating still has to be put through an induction, trained to operate Flybe SOPs, and brought through to final line check, all of which uses up training capacity and costs the company money.
I imagine the argument would be essentially the same: after all, even someone with a type rating still has to be put through an induction, trained to operate Flybe SOPs, and brought through to final line check, all of which uses up training capacity and costs the company money.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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AFA, I think you're mis-interpreting the logic. You're not signing over anything even if the bond is £100k so why would you sign over your first born and house? Yes plans change etc, but you can say that about anything, like why pay Ryanair £30k for a type rating to then realise it's not what you thought it was, or why pay £120k for flight training to only realise the job isn't what it cracked up to be. Yes I agree it's pretty disgraceful making a type rated bod sign an £18k bond but there are choices in life, and those choices are either don't join, call them up and ask exactly why the bond needs signing and what is it for exactly or just get on with it.
With respect your comparison with Ryanair or an FTO rather make my point. With them you come out with a type rating or an FATPL after parting with your cash. If you're type rated & left Flybe early for whatever reason what exactly have you got for your £18K?? Notwithstanding ancillary training costs of integrating a new recruit as mentioned above (is the bond for non type rated recruits even more in that case?) & yes I know it reduces.
I think most people understand the difference anyway.
We agree it's disgraceful at least but I have no dog in this fight and no interest in Flybe thank goodness so I'll leave you to it.
Join Date: May 2003
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The 737 rating I can swallow, but a fATPL? One would have to question the veracity of your statement considering 70% of fresh faced students never realise a job in the right hand seat of an airliner. Apart from that it's quite simple isn't it, the OP has three options.
1. Call Flybe asking what he/she is getting for that type of bond and WHY is it that high for already type rated pilots.
2. Don't join.
3. Join and hope he/she doesn't have to leave within the bond period.
And yes I agree with you, reversethrust and everyone else, it is a disgrace to bond for that amount for already type rated pilots but there maybe a legitimate reason why, even if we're struggling to think of one.
1. Call Flybe asking what he/she is getting for that type of bond and WHY is it that high for already type rated pilots.
2. Don't join.
3. Join and hope he/she doesn't have to leave within the bond period.
And yes I agree with you, reversethrust and everyone else, it is a disgrace to bond for that amount for already type rated pilots but there maybe a legitimate reason why, even if we're struggling to think of one.
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The bond appears to be nothing more than a cynical attempt to tie a financial millstone to new recruits, to keep them in the company. Seems strange to apply such a steep bond to direct entry captains (especially type rated ones) since I can't imagine they are in plentiful supply... It will take successful applicants to refuse the offer, otherwise it won't change.