Flybe
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As a recent exFlybee I can only affirm what has been written in all of the above informative posts. Regarding the attitude of training departments towards ex Turbo prop guys the current situation is only positive in my experience, they seem to appreciate our basic flying skills and ability to think a little bit outside the box. Just passed my skills test on a 100t Boeing and no issues so far apart from trying to find the ALTSEL on numerous occasions in panic!
To summarise, training departments in the UK will continue to give Flybe/Eastern guys a shot for the foreseeable future... but the real test will be when things slow down, whether or not the HR departments will let them in the door when there are plenty of jet guys applying for the same jobs.
To summarise, training departments in the UK will continue to give Flybe/Eastern guys a shot for the foreseeable future... but the real test will be when things slow down, whether or not the HR departments will let them in the door when there are plenty of jet guys applying for the same jobs.
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Sadly I don't think they will. This is nothing to do with skillsets. It's more to do with costs. Surely a trained person on the same type will be cheaper. Milk it now for when it all changes the same cycle will return.
Right now - if you can't find the crew having the same type ratings - then it goes to the second level down the food chain, TP guys and girls.
When that erodes - it will be instructors or cadets....hopefully
Right now - if you can't find the crew having the same type ratings - then it goes to the second level down the food chain, TP guys and girls.
When that erodes - it will be instructors or cadets....hopefully
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Q400
Having flown Q400, E-Jet and now Airbus I have to say the Q400 was the most demanding to fly - which is precisely why the jet prejudice is a nonsense. I'm not sure that I'd class a Q400 as slippery though (except in comparison to an airborne wheelbarrow! ;-)
My advice to those still at Flybe or even thinking of joining is to think hard about what you want from the job of being a pilot. There's upsides and downsides to all flying jobs. I once chatted to a 777 Captain who had flown everything from instructing in Cessna's through turboprops at Eastern and then small jets before finally flying the heavies. He said to me that his job satisfaction had proved to be inversely proportional to his paycheck and he bloody hated sitting there for 11 hours at a time staring at a 4000 mile ocean in the middle of the night but was trapped by the salary.
If Flybe offered a 5/3 fixed roster pattern that would in my view make a big difference because it would dramatically improve lifestyle and people would be more inclined to tolerate the downsides like low pay and roster disruption. Ironically as they are so short of crew they're probably less likely to do this now than ever and yet it's precisely the kind of measure that could solve their staff attrition issues in the longer term.
I also think it will be interesting to see if Saad stays. Many suspect he's only in it for the money and his 3 year contract involved a huge bonus if he managed to significantly improve the share price 3 years after taking over. In fact the share price is (I think) lower than when he joined so he may decide to leave anyway which may leave the way open for a more charismatic leader with more flair, better people skills and the ability to re-energise the workforce. What Flybe needs is someone like Branson or Colin Marshall with a genuine passion for aviation and customer service, the intellect to innovate and the ability to create passion in his staff and a bit of theatre around the brand.
Sadly I suspect Saad is a bean counter who lacks flair. He intimidates his staff and I'm not sure if he really cares about his passengers. If you read the financial sites he doesn't seem to have impressed the city analysts or investors. He went around sacking and demoting (often capable and experienced) managers left right and center while spouting meaningless phrases he picked up on an MBA course. He sacked stacks of pilots only to find himself recruiting to replace them almost immediately, he grounded a fleet of jets for months and then realised (as an 'O' level economics student could have told him) that by doing that he was still paying all the leases but not earning any revenue from them to offset that so he put them back in the air again. He has opened and closed bases all over the place which led people to wonder if there was cohesion to the strategy. He shed and lost excellent staff who had a strong sense of loyalty and customer service ethic. Fundamentally his biggest failing is that he hasn't managed to take his staff, the city or perhaps even his customers with him quite the way one might have hoped.
Thankfully Flybe weathered the storm but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he decides to seek his fortune elsewhere.
My advice to those still at Flybe or even thinking of joining is to think hard about what you want from the job of being a pilot. There's upsides and downsides to all flying jobs. I once chatted to a 777 Captain who had flown everything from instructing in Cessna's through turboprops at Eastern and then small jets before finally flying the heavies. He said to me that his job satisfaction had proved to be inversely proportional to his paycheck and he bloody hated sitting there for 11 hours at a time staring at a 4000 mile ocean in the middle of the night but was trapped by the salary.
If Flybe offered a 5/3 fixed roster pattern that would in my view make a big difference because it would dramatically improve lifestyle and people would be more inclined to tolerate the downsides like low pay and roster disruption. Ironically as they are so short of crew they're probably less likely to do this now than ever and yet it's precisely the kind of measure that could solve their staff attrition issues in the longer term.
I also think it will be interesting to see if Saad stays. Many suspect he's only in it for the money and his 3 year contract involved a huge bonus if he managed to significantly improve the share price 3 years after taking over. In fact the share price is (I think) lower than when he joined so he may decide to leave anyway which may leave the way open for a more charismatic leader with more flair, better people skills and the ability to re-energise the workforce. What Flybe needs is someone like Branson or Colin Marshall with a genuine passion for aviation and customer service, the intellect to innovate and the ability to create passion in his staff and a bit of theatre around the brand.
Sadly I suspect Saad is a bean counter who lacks flair. He intimidates his staff and I'm not sure if he really cares about his passengers. If you read the financial sites he doesn't seem to have impressed the city analysts or investors. He went around sacking and demoting (often capable and experienced) managers left right and center while spouting meaningless phrases he picked up on an MBA course. He sacked stacks of pilots only to find himself recruiting to replace them almost immediately, he grounded a fleet of jets for months and then realised (as an 'O' level economics student could have told him) that by doing that he was still paying all the leases but not earning any revenue from them to offset that so he put them back in the air again. He has opened and closed bases all over the place which led people to wonder if there was cohesion to the strategy. He shed and lost excellent staff who had a strong sense of loyalty and customer service ethic. Fundamentally his biggest failing is that he hasn't managed to take his staff, the city or perhaps even his customers with him quite the way one might have hoped.
Thankfully Flybe weathered the storm but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he decides to seek his fortune elsewhere.
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^^^^^^^ Can only echo Desk Pilots post above. Having met the man on more than one occasion I was left completely underwhelmed by him both as a leader and a strategist.
90% of his decisions seem to be to scrap something and then re-introduce it 6 months to a year later under a different banner, with zero accountability or recognition of previous mistakes.
90% of his decisions seem to be to scrap something and then re-introduce it 6 months to a year later under a different banner, with zero accountability or recognition of previous mistakes.
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I don't think the leases work like that, desk plot and whitemonk. It's not a simple case of the aircraft cost a one off x amount to operate and then he realised it would pay to fly them, to think that is a little naive. There's a whole wrath of associated costs. The engines were owned by the Walker Trust so I'm led to believe and then leased back to Flybe, the airframes were a separate entity. Then factor in sky high fuel prices, and (according to the company) sky high crew and high fuel burns then those associated costs mount up if they fly. If they don't fly then the only thing you pay for is the airframe lease costs because Saad got rid of the other cost (crews). The engines aren't being used and no fuel is being burnt. But then came Project Blackbird. There was no way on this God's earth that these jets were going to be sold. You could see it right from the start. There's only 138 sold worldwide since the aircraft's inception. We possessed 14 by 2008 which at that time equated to 20% of the world's fleet of 195s. Up until we got rid of the first one we possessed 11% of the world's fleet so that tells you a story doesn't it, well it tells me that as beautiful as the aircraft is to fly, they are commercial dogs, nobody wants them, that's not my opinion, that's fact and couple that with a very, very high cost base, high leasing costs and high fuel costs, the 195s were never going to stay, or so we thought. As Project Blackbird was in full swing I think it became abundantly clear that nobody wanted the 195s. So now we're stuck with them, and the reason they're flying again is because we have done deals with airports to drive down the associated costs. Couple this with a much lower cost base and fuel that's 50% cheaper then all of a sudden they might just break even - just, which is obviously alot better than a loss. Let's face it, we were (& still are with handouts) flying these aircraft on domestic routes, mainly in the uk. Apart from a few trunk routes if airlines could make money flying jets over 100 seats on UK domestic routes then airlines would be doing it in abundance, but they're not, this tells you a story as well.
You now have a fleet of flying dildos, which wouldn't look out of place with Ann Summers written on the side instead
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Integrated for the quality of training, and the possibility of referrals and mentoring opportunities.
Back to Flybe. Historically I honestly believe Jersey European existed as a means to Legally "launder" money (purely metaphorically speaking) via expensive aircraft leases out to the offshore bases of the paper companies who owned most of the aircraft.
With a lot of the Q400s and the E195s this historical flaw is one of their big hurdles to recovery. The Republic Q400s are a good step, and the sooner they get out of the E195s and the expensive Q400s run out of lease and can be re-acquired on better terms the sooner their cost base will become manageable.
Ham Salad, certainly has one hand tied behind his back, as did Jim before him. LHR is a gon starter, as they costs are even more than at LGW, who drove Flybe out of the airport and very nearly out of business altogether....
Back to Flybe. Historically I honestly believe Jersey European existed as a means to Legally "launder" money (purely metaphorically speaking) via expensive aircraft leases out to the offshore bases of the paper companies who owned most of the aircraft.
With a lot of the Q400s and the E195s this historical flaw is one of their big hurdles to recovery. The Republic Q400s are a good step, and the sooner they get out of the E195s and the expensive Q400s run out of lease and can be re-acquired on better terms the sooner their cost base will become manageable.
Ham Salad, certainly has one hand tied behind his back, as did Jim before him. LHR is a gon starter, as they costs are even more than at LGW, who drove Flybe out of the airport and very nearly out of business altogether....
Last edited by RVF750; 26th Apr 2016 at 09:15.
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Jamest
The latest pay/scheduling offerings have been unanimously rejected by the members. Discussions are taking place with regards an improved offer.
The latest pay/scheduling offerings have been unanimously rejected by the members. Discussions are taking place with regards an improved offer.
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Good to see things are looking positive, but buying monarch would be a step too far.
Flybe boss primes airline for take-off
Flybe boss primes airline for take-off
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Now I might not be able to pass BA's verbal reasoning, but I think we can knock this one on the head right now can't we?
Acquisitions are not core to his growth plan and he dismisses the suggestion Flybe could tie-up with leisure travel-focused Monarch, which is thought to be up for sale.
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I have just seen this comment from RexBanner a few posts back:
Rex took the words right out of my mouth. I had five years at Flybe, left in the great cull of 2013, survived a couple of years in the sandpit and now fly a very big aeroplane for a very big airline. Of all of them, Flybe was by far and away the most enjoyable lifestyle and flying – and considering I now spend my flights choosing 1st class food and planning bunk time instead of saying ‘ALT SEL’, waiting for the aircraft to try and bite me and wondering when I’ll have time for a pee – that says a lot for how good it was. Small bases, going flying with your mates, wonderful camaraderie, banter and social life with the cabin crew, maybe 500hrs per year, no night flying – it was a flying club rather than a job. Put me back at NWI, LGW, NCL or INV and convince me my job was secure, and I’d be as happy as a pig in the proverbial.
Sadly, those days are long gone (along with many of the bases). Friends who are still there are just as poorly paid as before, but have lost most of the lifestyle compensations. Nine days off a month is do-able with short 2-sector days and standbys you can do from home, especially when they rarely call you. It’s not so much fun with 80hrs a month and relentless 4 and 6 sector days. The company used to boast about the great regional lifestyle it offered, but all those little bases with the club-house atmosphere are history.
To be fair, Flybe have got some of the fundamentals spot on. As others have mentioned, the training and safety culture is second to none, which helps to make it a great first job. However, commercially they have all too often been a shambles, stumbling from one crisis or poor strategic decision to the next.
For someone starting out, it’s a good place to get decent training and valuable experience. For a DEC with no mortgage who is running the clock down to retirement and can go part-time it can be a nice little hobby job. For everyone in between – particularly folks with kids and/or big mortgages – it never was much of a career airline, and is even less so these days.
Oh, and for what it’s worth, I’ve flown the Q400, 737 and 777, and the Dash is by some margin the trickiest one to fly. The Boeings are boring - but at least they have ovens.
Pot Noodle anyone?
I can only echo, however, the sentiments regarding Flybe before the January announcement of three years ago. A simply wonderful place to work with opportunities for a great lifestyle. If the archangel Gabriel came down now and told me "Rex you can go back to Flybe with things exactly how they were but the company will be stable and profitable and it will never change but you must stay there until retirement" I would happily give up my long haul ambitions right now and go back.
Sadly, those days are long gone (along with many of the bases). Friends who are still there are just as poorly paid as before, but have lost most of the lifestyle compensations. Nine days off a month is do-able with short 2-sector days and standbys you can do from home, especially when they rarely call you. It’s not so much fun with 80hrs a month and relentless 4 and 6 sector days. The company used to boast about the great regional lifestyle it offered, but all those little bases with the club-house atmosphere are history.
To be fair, Flybe have got some of the fundamentals spot on. As others have mentioned, the training and safety culture is second to none, which helps to make it a great first job. However, commercially they have all too often been a shambles, stumbling from one crisis or poor strategic decision to the next.
For someone starting out, it’s a good place to get decent training and valuable experience. For a DEC with no mortgage who is running the clock down to retirement and can go part-time it can be a nice little hobby job. For everyone in between – particularly folks with kids and/or big mortgages – it never was much of a career airline, and is even less so these days.
Oh, and for what it’s worth, I’ve flown the Q400, 737 and 777, and the Dash is by some margin the trickiest one to fly. The Boeings are boring - but at least they have ovens.
Pot Noodle anyone?