Qatar 2015/2016

[trigger21]

With all the negativity surrounding Qatar Airways over the years, I am hearing rumours of improvement. Better pay, working conditions etc. can anyone shed more light?
Also hear they are looking at commuting rosters and overseas basing in order to meeting flight crew requirements.

Anyone in the know feel free to share!

[Flying Clog]

I have quite a few friends who work for this bunch and they're bloody miserable. An absolutely dire place by all accounts, despite all the gold and bright lights.

I've heard their stories..

I feel sorry for them. At least the Virgin chaps on sabatical had light at the end of the tunnel, and had a bit of fun dune bashing and so on. And they were rightly chuffed to move on as soon as they got the chance!

I can't think of a worse major airline to fly for. Emirates is having a mass exodus as pilots FINALLY realise that it's all smoke and mirrors. But the unmentionable airline about a 100k south seems ok, for now.

Nasty business if you ask me.

AVOID AT ALL COST....

NB...

I ended up, 10+ years ago, heading to the far east as opposed to the middle east option, and for many years I regretted it, as I saw my colleagues getting their commands in the sandpit after only 3-5 years. Now, however, I feel I've dodged a massive bullet...

And another NB...

The number of deaths in the construction build up to the world cup should be a SHAME on the country, and they should be stripped of the privilege and abolished for any and all sporting events in the future.

What an utter DISGRACE.

[DooblerChina]

Originally Posted by Flying Clog

I have quite a few friends who work for Qatar and they're bloody miserable. An absolutely dire place by all accounts, despite all the gold and bright lights. Of all the slave driving camel shagging airlines operating in the cesspit, this seems to be a real stinking messy pile of poo, and one should avoid at ALL cost.

I've heard their stories..

I feel sorry for them. At least the Virgin chaps on sabatical had light at the end of the tunnel, and had a bit of fun dune bashing and so on. And they were rightly chuffed to move on as soon as they got the chance!

I can't think of a worse major airline to fly for. Emirates is having a mass exodus as pilots FINALLY realise that it's all smoke and mirrors. But the unmentionable airline about a 100k south seems ok, for now.

At the end of the day, these bastards have been very successful at slave driving for many, many years, it's only in the last decade or two that they've been 'running whites'.

Nasty business if you ask me.

AVOID AT ALL COST....

NB...

I ended up, 10+ years ago, heading to the far east as opposed to the middle east option, and for many years I regretted it, as I saw my colleagues getting their commands in the sandpit after only 3-5 years. Now, however, I feel I've dodged a massive bullet...

And another NB...

The number of deaths in the construction build up to the Qatari world cup should be a SHAME on the country, and they should be stripped of the privilege and abolished for any and all sporting events in the future.

What an utter DISGRACE.

So you're on the fence?

[gorter]

I've got a couple of mates there too. They have no complaints. They went with their eyes wide open and with the idea that it wasn't a career. Go there, keep their heads down make enough money to pay off the mortgage and come back to Europe.

They got their loved ones on side. The old adage happy wife happy life is particularly important. I'm sure it has its problems and many have probably fallen foul of a very authoritarian system. I have many friends in various middle eastern airlines. The ones that hate it there hate it because their families hate it. The ones that get on do so with the support of that family.

[casablanca]

I'm personally impressed with all of the improvements in the last year and especially last six months
Like "Gorter" said, I also came here with my eyes wide open and wasn't really considering it long term.........but it is moving in the right direction and now I have to say if it stays this way I have to rethink my options.
I fly with Europeans, Australians, Asians, Americans , S.Americans etc.....I honestly hear very little bitching and most people are relatively happy ( 777 fleet)
I personally find a huge difference in quality of life depending on where you live in Doha. There are still a lot of cons but the pros are increasing and if you are lucky and don't fall into trouble, it can be a good job.

[LLuCCiFeR]

And another NB...

The number of deaths in the construction build up to the Qatari world cup should be a SHAME on the country, and they should be stripped of the privilege and abolished for any and all sporting events in the future.

What an utter DISGRACE.

Very true, but unfortunately people like gorter only think about themselves and their bl**dy mortgage:

Go there, keep their heads down make enough money to pay off the mortgage and come back to Europe.

Yes, by "keeping your head down" and strictly following orders (Befehl ist Befehl, like in Germany during 1933-1945) you'll be a great 'captain!' By the way, what do you mean with: "...and come back to Europe?" Which airline, unless you're on furlough like the Virgin people, is going to hire you in Europe? Spoiler alert: nobody!

p.s. I stumbled across this story recently: TELL THE BARCELONA FOOTBALL CLUB TO DROP QATAR AIRWAYS AS A SPONSOR UNTIL IT TREATS WORKERS FAIRLY! | SumOfUs

[320goat]

It is quite clear that some people feel qualified to comment with little or no knowledge of what work or life is like in Qatar.

LLuCCiFeR; you take the statement of "keeping you head down" and then make reference to nazi Germany, I have never heard so much bull.

Keeping your head down out here means following the NOPs and not being known to the management, not unlike a lot of companies. The ME is famous for a lack of employment law so you can be easily fired for mistakes, but the fact is, if you can back up your decisions (which you should be able to do working for any company!) then you can carry out your job as captain as you would for any carrier.

I agree that human rights abuses are appalling; fortunately what has happened in Qatar has been well documented and I believe has led to improvements in working conditions out here, but as ever there is a lot more room for improvement hopefully brought about by more pressure from the world media and governments.

As for working out here; my family are very happy. Stable roster, flying under 80 hours a month with 13/14 days off a month. Still a bit short on housing allowance and it would be nice to be paid for all dead heading (probably only a matter of time) but there have been many improvements in Ts & Cs out here. Schooling can be an issue, Ramadan is painful compared to BAH, DBX or AUH, and not so much to do here compared to other places

It is not for everyone but may I suggest if you haven't lived or worked out here then you are not so qualified to comment.

Regards

[gorter]

I don't live there and have never been there. I am merely relaying what my friends who do live there tell me. I wasn't making any comment about anything outside of working for Qatar Airlines as that has nothing to do with the OP's topic. If you wish to discuss that may I suggest Jet Blast as an appropriate forum.

Comparing working for Qatar airways as following orders for the Nazi's makes you sound a little bit (okay a lot) like a drama queen. And yes my family were directly affected by that regime as were many millions of others.

[LLuCCiFeR]

Comparing working for Qatar airways as following orders for the Nazi's makes you sound a little bit (okay a lot) like a drama queen.

I never said that. I said that your mentality as a captain (keeping your head down, just do your job and follow orders), regardless where and for whom you work, is similar to that of many Germans during the Nazi era. Deliberately ignoring human rights abuses in the Middle East just for personal gain and your sacred mortgage.

But I still wonder: unless you're doing it for a retirement gig (not really a long term career move), who will take you as a DEC in Europe once you've had enough of the Middle East, you get fired for not wearing your hat and/or the mortgage is paid off?

[gorter]

Off the top of my head. Ryanair, EasyJet and Jet2 are all currently taking DEC's. That's without doing any research.

[320goat]

I think you are wrong LLuCCiFeR, I hope that between the world cup and QR joining the oneworld alliance and many other interactions the Qataris have with big business around the globe the world will maintain pressure to ensure workers out here receive better treatment as time goes on.

There is money out here whether we like it or not, the only thing that will help the workers out here is pressure from the world stage.

By the way LLuCCiFeR, who said "following orders"......

Regards

[LLuCCiFeR]

Off the top of my head. Ryanair, EasyJet and Jet2 are all currently taking DEC's. That's without doing any research.

Hmmm, right, let's see... So you can swap jobs, because all those people in the LHS are leaving for the Middle East in droves as they've had enough of 4 sector days and 900 low cost short haul hours per year with 20 minute turn arounds?

When do you dumbos realize that it's one giant game of musical chairs of chasing quick money, chasing quick upgrades, and chasing quick shiny jet ratings? And it's not only that the chairs get fewer and fewer, they also get smaller and smaller in terms of T&C.

My advice: buy a house which fits your wallet and not your ego.

[320goat]

Got to love the WWW, anyone with an internet connection and tablet can join in!

Maybe I should add one of those pictures of a head banging against a wall for effect.

[Flytdeck]

Incremental improvements

320. Always thought the head bangy icon was quite symbolic. Think of "intelligence" being on the left side of the wall, the wall representing "EGO" and the head thing represents "self expression". Forum remarks are often inhibited by the inability to overcome one's EGO which otherwise could lead to an intelligent statement (which is often the case in life OUTSIDE the online world). Just look at the flat spot on my bald head!

Addressing the original topic, after working at QA for several years, have found this to be a reasonable workplace especially after recent improvements including:

• Access to ID90 and ID50 on QA for non family members
• Increase in housing allowance
• Increase in base pay
• Benefit savings plan option
• Improved sequential days off
• Reduction in restrictions on roster building and bidding
• Deadhead pay for freighters (50%)
• Business class deadhead
• Improved medical benefits

There are some items that have devolved such as redefinition of Ultra Long Haul with subsequent reduction in layover time, airport layover hotels and a general reduction in the standard of hotel selected (YUL and LAX are prime examples though there are many more).

There are nice areas to live here that meet the needs of single, couple, or family. Company housing is still very limited which often means that one must subsidize accommodation, even after the increase. There is plenty of selection at different price points, especially after the exodus of energy workers.

Summers are HOT ("how hot are they????"). They are so hot, the heat waves are big enough to surf on; I saw two trees fighting over a dog; the refrigerator will not give up ice cubes without a struggle. It is HOT (and often humid). It is also thoroughly air conditioned; everywhere. Indoor activities such as basketball, tennis, badminton, squash, racquetball, and ice hockey (yes, ICE hockey) are available for a little coin and a few moments exposed to the heat between the automobile and the facility. The best option my be to have family return home for summer vacation and "tough it out" as a single.

Working for Qatar Airways may be more difficult that say, a legacy carrier but after chatting with crew members who have arrived here after following varied paths, it is an improvement on MOST carriers. The best possible situation is likely arriving as a DEC and having your family settle here with you. The F/Os I work with are diligent and hard working as their promotion hinges on a sterling work and exam record. It is not easy and engenders a certain amount of constant stress which can easily carry over into personal lives.

Working conditions for most of the general laborers is abysmal. There is a wide cultural gulf in this area which is being exposed to the world through the media. Though improvements have been promised there seems to be no incentive (or ability) to follow through. There are many opportunities to converse with a diverse range of people and many tell disturbing stories of their time here. There are also opportunities to assist and I like to think (or possibly delude) that our presence here makes a positive difference. There are signs that incremental improvements are being made and that world opinion my finally overcome the reticence of Qatar's rulers (and they ARE rulers, NOT leaders) for positive, humanitarian change.

Working here is what you make of it. Some like it, some hate it. This is a good skit for me though I am here for a finite period. Those considering long-term employment may have a different opinion though there are pilots (and others) who have been here for over a decade and are committed to this airline. Recently our management have moved to improve facets of our jobs and I am hopeful this trend will continue. Those seeking a secure position in a growing airline, there are many more worse opportunities out there and frankly, depending on your experience, few better that I know of. This is my personal opinion but remember that head bashing icon? My wall is just as thick as the next person's.

[320goat]

Excellent post Flytdeck; sums up my sentiments precisely.

[Global_Global]

Originally Posted by Flying Clog
I have quite a few friends who work for Qatar and they're bloody miserable.

The question was probably more about actual experience with QR rather than 2nd hand gossip me guesses... Unless your friends can't write of course.....

[LLuCCiFeR]

Got to love the WWW, anyone with an internet connection and tablet can join in!

Hmm, plenty of good arguments in that post. Were you talking about yourself perhaps?

Anyway, good luck with your 'strategy' and good luck trying to get in as a DEC with a European low cost in 5-10 years time. By then they should be on a Z100 scale as a freelance contractor, as by that time hundreds if not thousands of pilots want to escape from the Middle East, all willing to fly for peanuts in a more moderate climate. All that money you've supposedly made by then in the Middle East will be instantly wiped out.

You might have a nice and paid off house by then, the question is: can you still afford to pay the utility bills and putting the kids through school working for a EU low cost?

[LLuCCiFeR]

How short is your memory?

Ignorance is bliss dear Clog, ignorance is bliss... (<-- here's that wall-banging smiley again for you 320goat!)

This is the next generation magenta line pilots. They've mutated even beyond the magenta line, this is the tunnel vision magenta line pilot generation.

Their ability to understand the big picture in aviation and their level of indebtedness has degraded to such an extend, that they can only resort to short term thinking and fooling themselves that these are sensible long term career moves.

[gorter]

Did Akbar al Baker sleep with your wife or something?

[Black Pudding]

In this world, we have positive people, and then sometimes we have negative people. ie glass half full, half empty.


Please, if you're a negative half glass empty person, don't apply as I don't want to spend my time at work listening to your crap.


I have been here just over 5 years and very happy with regards work, 320 fleet.


If you can think of a better place to live and work, post here and I will have a think. Until I see anything better, I'll take each day as it comes.


The fact of the matter is this, only people with an axe to grind tend to waste time here posting crap. Those that are happy are far to busy getting on with life.