Easyjet DEP recruitment
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Plastic787 - my hearty congratulations that you have been offered a job at BA, and may I genuinely encourage you to accept such a great opportunity. There may or may not be hundreds of pilots about to leave easyJet - I frankly hope you are right, as it puts pressure on terms and conditions which can only be good news for those who do not leave. As others have pointed out, however, it does not matter how many people leave - they will primarily be replaced by young lads with their parents' money who will gladly accept no salary whatsoever for a couple of years if that is what the deal was. Sure, they will bleat and whine about it, but they will still take the deal - and that is where the problem lies. In the all-important supply and demand statistics, there are way more people willing to work for easyJet than they have jobs to give out - that means low salaries for inexperienced First Officers, which they will just lap up. It is a very harsh and depressing assessment, but pretty accurate nonetheless.
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In the past easyJet had been always a DEC airline & BALPA playing a self-interest game maintaining the status-quo on expense of our fellow colleagues.
CTC is a perverted way of pilot´s employment and should had never started from the beginning. BA is happy to take our highly motivated and trained FO/CPTs just to be replaced by cheaper cadets from the sausage factory. It does not take a crystal ball to imagine what is going to happen: Look at new trainer contracts, new bases T&C ....
Let me quote Niemoller:
"
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
I think it´s just a matter of time, until reality is spread around the flight schools. It is likely that at the end we will suffer a shortage of qualified people (see US market). Luckily the airline offering the most decent T&C will not face the same problem. In the long-term it does pay off to treat people with some decency.
CTC is a perverted way of pilot´s employment and should had never started from the beginning. BA is happy to take our highly motivated and trained FO/CPTs just to be replaced by cheaper cadets from the sausage factory. It does not take a crystal ball to imagine what is going to happen: Look at new trainer contracts, new bases T&C ....
Let me quote Niemoller:
"
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
I think it´s just a matter of time, until reality is spread around the flight schools. It is likely that at the end we will suffer a shortage of qualified people (see US market). Luckily the airline offering the most decent T&C will not face the same problem. In the long-term it does pay off to treat people with some decency.
Last edited by ezy320; 9th Dec 2015 at 02:36. Reason: ed
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When EasyJet and ryanair reach critical mass and there is no expansion planned there will be no more requirement for cheap replacements. By that time the new joiners will be time barred on poor contracts for many many years. There will be very desperate unemployed or self improvers willing to fill the limited places available.
The wannabes are responsible.
The wannabes are responsible.
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Actually if there are any people to blame apart from the guys who create these contracts, its the old pilots. They were already in the union and had the chance to fight it. But since most of the older pilots are captain or SFO they don't care about FO's.
Good example is easyJet Lisbon base. After the industrial actions the contracts improved significantly for captains and SFO's. Guess what has changed for SO's and FO's? Nothing. Because there weren't any at the time.
Good example is easyJet Lisbon base. After the industrial actions the contracts improved significantly for captains and SFO's. Guess what has changed for SO's and FO's? Nothing. Because there weren't any at the time.
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CMB: The reason FO's got double is because when creating the NEC, eJ cut out all loyalty pay for FO's, thus making the entire bonus performance related.
The FO's got 9.2% (pro-rated) whereas an eJ captain with 2-4 years got 9.6% including loyalty pay, 5-9 years got 14.6% and 10 years or over got 19.6%!
The FO's didn't get more...quite the opposite in fact. I hope this helps.
The FO's got 9.2% (pro-rated) whereas an eJ captain with 2-4 years got 9.6% including loyalty pay, 5-9 years got 14.6% and 10 years or over got 19.6%!
The FO's didn't get more...quite the opposite in fact. I hope this helps.
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In_The_Deen - that is not really an accurate statement of affairs, although I wish it was. This is smoke and mirrors at its finest! The figures you refer to add on 'loyalty bonus' for captains, which as you know is nothing to do with a 'bonus' but is a replacement for incremental pay that other airlines pay and has been in existence since the very beginning of easyJet.
For those not familiar with what is being discussed here, easyJet do not pay incremental pay and you get more money on promotion, except if you are a new joiner as an FO - in which case your salary goes up as you reach the first few 'gates' (Second Officer - First Officer - Senior First Officer). As the NEC (New Entrant Contract) was negotiated some years ago, part of the deal was that First Officers no longer received a 'loyalty bonus' but instead advanced up in salary terms by reaching certain gates. Captains, however, maintained their incremental pay which was incorrectly known as a 'loyalty bonus'. This loyalty bonus gives 5% on basic to Captains after 2 years, 10% after 5 years and 15% after 10 years - paid each year on the anniversary of joining the Company. The 'performance bonus' being incorrectly associated with the incorrectly-named 'loyalty bonus' is a more recent gift to the employees over and above the other deals, whereby if the company is successful each year you get a percentage of basic onto your salary (or in your pension fund if you prefer). For First Officers it was pro-rata 9.2% and the Captains got 4.6%.
The salary package is quite complex. To summarise for those interested in such matters, a UK-based captain working for easyJet will be paid as follows (after the payment of this year's 2% pay rise):
1. £98,855 Basic.
2. £31.26 per 'sector' flown (I work on 430 a year) - roughly £13,440.
3. 5%, 10% or 15% on basic paid each year after 2, 5 and 10 years' service respectively - known as a 'loyalty bonus'.
4. Up to a 5% on basic bonus depending on company performance - this year it was 4.6%.
5. 7% of basic paid by easyJet into your pension pot.
6. In addition you can put up to £150 per month into one share scheme which is 'buy one get one free' and a further £350 into another share scheme per month which comes out after 3 years and has historically generated thousands in tax free profits.
7. Furthermore, for each of the last few years pilots have received two weeks' salary in shares limited to £3,000 (which for Captains is always the limiting value).
8. Finally, given that most pilots are shareholders, there have been a number of dividends and special dividends, although there is not one this year. For each of the last two years I got around £2,000 net.
9. If you are a Trainer you get 12.5% for a Line Trainer, 15% for TRI, 17.5% for TRE (all pensionable and added to basic for your 'loyalty bonus'). There are around 170 or more Training Captains at easyJet so the opportunities are there if you want to go for it.
The key thing about all of the above is that it is available to every single First Officer at easyJet on promotion to Captain. Many CTC cadets are captains after 5 years, so they may start on £1000 a month, but they certainly do not stay that way for long. No doubt we all consider ourselves worth more, but outside of a national carrier I am struggling to think where you will get that deal. You may not think it is great, but it is hardly a financial catastrophe. It is vital you come here knowing what it is you are signing up to - that is it to the best of my knowledge. I hope that helps.
For those not familiar with what is being discussed here, easyJet do not pay incremental pay and you get more money on promotion, except if you are a new joiner as an FO - in which case your salary goes up as you reach the first few 'gates' (Second Officer - First Officer - Senior First Officer). As the NEC (New Entrant Contract) was negotiated some years ago, part of the deal was that First Officers no longer received a 'loyalty bonus' but instead advanced up in salary terms by reaching certain gates. Captains, however, maintained their incremental pay which was incorrectly known as a 'loyalty bonus'. This loyalty bonus gives 5% on basic to Captains after 2 years, 10% after 5 years and 15% after 10 years - paid each year on the anniversary of joining the Company. The 'performance bonus' being incorrectly associated with the incorrectly-named 'loyalty bonus' is a more recent gift to the employees over and above the other deals, whereby if the company is successful each year you get a percentage of basic onto your salary (or in your pension fund if you prefer). For First Officers it was pro-rata 9.2% and the Captains got 4.6%.
The salary package is quite complex. To summarise for those interested in such matters, a UK-based captain working for easyJet will be paid as follows (after the payment of this year's 2% pay rise):
1. £98,855 Basic.
2. £31.26 per 'sector' flown (I work on 430 a year) - roughly £13,440.
3. 5%, 10% or 15% on basic paid each year after 2, 5 and 10 years' service respectively - known as a 'loyalty bonus'.
4. Up to a 5% on basic bonus depending on company performance - this year it was 4.6%.
5. 7% of basic paid by easyJet into your pension pot.
6. In addition you can put up to £150 per month into one share scheme which is 'buy one get one free' and a further £350 into another share scheme per month which comes out after 3 years and has historically generated thousands in tax free profits.
7. Furthermore, for each of the last few years pilots have received two weeks' salary in shares limited to £3,000 (which for Captains is always the limiting value).
8. Finally, given that most pilots are shareholders, there have been a number of dividends and special dividends, although there is not one this year. For each of the last two years I got around £2,000 net.
9. If you are a Trainer you get 12.5% for a Line Trainer, 15% for TRI, 17.5% for TRE (all pensionable and added to basic for your 'loyalty bonus'). There are around 170 or more Training Captains at easyJet so the opportunities are there if you want to go for it.
The key thing about all of the above is that it is available to every single First Officer at easyJet on promotion to Captain. Many CTC cadets are captains after 5 years, so they may start on £1000 a month, but they certainly do not stay that way for long. No doubt we all consider ourselves worth more, but outside of a national carrier I am struggling to think where you will get that deal. You may not think it is great, but it is hardly a financial catastrophe. It is vital you come here knowing what it is you are signing up to - that is it to the best of my knowledge. I hope that helps.
Last edited by Count of Monte Bisto; 10th Dec 2015 at 21:07. Reason: Typo
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As you rightly say, these reflect only figures on the UK contract, otherwise we would not have attracted all the guys from ex-Monarch. Different story for our new bases in LIS, OPO, BCN, & AMS. Also VCE and NAP different rostering policy as DEC.
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Monte Bisto , by far the best post on EZ uk TnCs . Period.
Why would anyone not go to EZ ? Even if you go BA and manage a conmand in 5 yrs still willbe £30-40k short of EZ. .
Enough said .
Why would anyone not go to EZ ? Even if you go BA and manage a conmand in 5 yrs still willbe £30-40k short of EZ. .
Enough said .
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But after 5 years at EZY you'll be close to burning out and seriously contemplating part time. Full time is unsustainable (if you want a life away from flying) so expect to take at least 25% off the Count's figures.
Why would anyone not go to EZ ? Even if you go BA and manage a conmand in 5 yrs still willbe £30-40k short of EZ. .
easyJet is a great company no doubt but if you're based at LGW it's very, very difficult to make the case that it's sustainable over a career (as the poster above has alluded to).
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Because you´ll not enjoy the wealth you have accumulated during these years due to damaging health effects. Oh yes, if you don´t like it here just leave we have plenty of others. Supply and Demand. Or maybe you are not suitable for this job? Please go and quit.
Or just become a trainer: Sim is less tiring and rewarding than being frequently exposed on the line
Or just become a trainer: Sim is less tiring and rewarding than being frequently exposed on the line
Last edited by ezy320; 10th Dec 2015 at 12:22.
Yes it isn't all about money, but bear in mind that easyJet LGW does not mean bad lifestyle.
Home most nights.
Car park (potentially) 5-10 minutes from the crew room (good luck doing that in LHR).
More money earlier on in your career (may equal better lifestyle for you and your young family, rather than when you're 65).
If the lifestyle you want is longhaul, then ezy isn't for you, obviously. However I'm not sure shorthaul BA is (at the moment) any better than ezy LGW.
I'm not saying it's all roses, it is hard work, and there are issues to be resolved (ie. sustainable career - which BALPA is working on), but for me personally, I wouldn't make the jump to BA.
Home most nights.
Car park (potentially) 5-10 minutes from the crew room (good luck doing that in LHR).
More money earlier on in your career (may equal better lifestyle for you and your young family, rather than when you're 65).
If the lifestyle you want is longhaul, then ezy isn't for you, obviously. However I'm not sure shorthaul BA is (at the moment) any better than ezy LGW.
I'm not saying it's all roses, it is hard work, and there are issues to be resolved (ie. sustainable career - which BALPA is working on), but for me personally, I wouldn't make the jump to BA.
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I thought fatigue was an industry issue as opposed to ezy having exclusive rights? From those I speak to further round the M25 its not just me at EZY that is suffering.
I'm 10 years in, well under 40, LGW based, and not part time so I don't know where the 5 year figure with burn out was pulled from. I've under 700 hours done this year. Can't remember the last time I broke 750. This summer did take it out of me though towards the end. Definitely could not do this to 65. My union though are very much on the case and the next few months could be very interesting for us all.
Have we a fatigue issue ? Right now, yes.
An attempt to provide a little balance. I'm far from a Orange clone but here goes. We have a few issues though, ridiculous roster instability, a lack of control over the work we do and no quality filter in roster production.
The lack of control is part of the dispute and we will have a bid system. The fatigue levels within the roster are being dealt with in a similar fashion. The crazy roster changes may well be rectified by fixing the two mentioned above.
Starting salary within ezy as a second officer is just over £40k. Moan all you want but as a 20 something cadet if you can't live on that I think you've borrowed too much and probably need to review. Grow up, basically.
If you want to retire with lots of type ratings on you licence then I'd suggest ezy isn't for you. If you want a quick route to £120k and be able to see your kids grow up then we are an option. I've made embarrassing amounts of money from the share schemes. I've a house I could never afford without my time in ezy. I can afford to go part time very soon.
Will BA be what it is now in 10 years time, I doubt it. Was it better 10 years ago, I'm told yes. Were T & Cs better in ezy ten ago ? No. I think we are still on an upward curve, all things considered. The curve is flattening though.
I have been tempted by BA previously but for various reason that ship has sailed. I'm not excited by type rating, I don't want to do days and days away with strangers, I like my command. Is BA better with regards to T&Cs ? Of course it is. I'd be a numpty to say no. The gap is closing though I believe. It has to. What I do now in ezy, you will do tomorrow in BA.
We have our faults in ezy, most definitely we do. Moves are afoot though to fix them. Rectify what I mentioned was wrong earlier and I can cope without the type ratings. To be perfectly honest, if I want to go business class to NY then i'll buy the ticket.
PS In terms of options, we have a training department that is bigger than most airlines. We have bases in most Western European. Some of the contracts aren't great, granted. Most of those contracts will get improved through union involvement. Those joining BA from EZY, I wish you all the best. Great move if it works for you. The more that leave can only be a good thing for those left behind.
I'm 10 years in, well under 40, LGW based, and not part time so I don't know where the 5 year figure with burn out was pulled from. I've under 700 hours done this year. Can't remember the last time I broke 750. This summer did take it out of me though towards the end. Definitely could not do this to 65. My union though are very much on the case and the next few months could be very interesting for us all.
Have we a fatigue issue ? Right now, yes.
An attempt to provide a little balance. I'm far from a Orange clone but here goes. We have a few issues though, ridiculous roster instability, a lack of control over the work we do and no quality filter in roster production.
The lack of control is part of the dispute and we will have a bid system. The fatigue levels within the roster are being dealt with in a similar fashion. The crazy roster changes may well be rectified by fixing the two mentioned above.
Starting salary within ezy as a second officer is just over £40k. Moan all you want but as a 20 something cadet if you can't live on that I think you've borrowed too much and probably need to review. Grow up, basically.
If you want to retire with lots of type ratings on you licence then I'd suggest ezy isn't for you. If you want a quick route to £120k and be able to see your kids grow up then we are an option. I've made embarrassing amounts of money from the share schemes. I've a house I could never afford without my time in ezy. I can afford to go part time very soon.
Will BA be what it is now in 10 years time, I doubt it. Was it better 10 years ago, I'm told yes. Were T & Cs better in ezy ten ago ? No. I think we are still on an upward curve, all things considered. The curve is flattening though.
I have been tempted by BA previously but for various reason that ship has sailed. I'm not excited by type rating, I don't want to do days and days away with strangers, I like my command. Is BA better with regards to T&Cs ? Of course it is. I'd be a numpty to say no. The gap is closing though I believe. It has to. What I do now in ezy, you will do tomorrow in BA.
We have our faults in ezy, most definitely we do. Moves are afoot though to fix them. Rectify what I mentioned was wrong earlier and I can cope without the type ratings. To be perfectly honest, if I want to go business class to NY then i'll buy the ticket.
PS In terms of options, we have a training department that is bigger than most airlines. We have bases in most Western European. Some of the contracts aren't great, granted. Most of those contracts will get improved through union involvement. Those joining BA from EZY, I wish you all the best. Great move if it works for you. The more that leave can only be a good thing for those left behind.
Last edited by blackred1443; 10th Dec 2015 at 11:33.
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Low hour , high pay airline jobs do not exist anymore . If any pop up , they won't be around long.
Easy is far from perfect but does provide some security & many enjoy it , the conditions aren't generally bad.
BA , a very good airline to work for although don't be under the illusion you're going to be sitting around drinking cocktails !! It's the same job & many at BA will tell you so.
All airlines are now looking to get more & more productivity from their staff & like it or not , many of them including BA look at Easyjet as a template.
It is the future . Management have no respect for pilots anymore , it's all about cost !
Easy is far from perfect but does provide some security & many enjoy it , the conditions aren't generally bad.
BA , a very good airline to work for although don't be under the illusion you're going to be sitting around drinking cocktails !! It's the same job & many at BA will tell you so.
All airlines are now looking to get more & more productivity from their staff & like it or not , many of them including BA look at Easyjet as a template.
It is the future . Management have no respect for pilots anymore , it's all about cost !
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COMB I believe forgot to add our Flexi Benefits scheme. The company gives us cash in an account to spend as you wish. You must spend it though you can't withdraw it as hard cash. I use mine for LOL insurance.
Staff travel is crap so I usually go with another carrier. Crew food is dire but a work in progress for BALPA. We are a very successful company so expectations are strong amongst Union members. Get the bid system in, sort out the rosters and I'm as happy as a pig in .......
Staff travel is crap so I usually go with another carrier. Crew food is dire but a work in progress for BALPA. We are a very successful company so expectations are strong amongst Union members. Get the bid system in, sort out the rosters and I'm as happy as a pig in .......
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It will be interesting how the bid system will work. We went to a strict non-rotational seniority based bidding system at my narrow body short-medium haul company and the lifestyle for the majority of the crew has become virtually unbearable with maximum 8 off in 28 days, alternating night and day flights and single days off. Fatigue reports through the roof and getting worse because so many are now leaving. It had been a disaster for all but the senior 10%. The irony is now that we are so short of crew as a result, even they are struggling to make their bids work.
Prior to the bidding system, the roster was great. Usually 12-14 days off and 850hrs/year.
Anyway, I have question about Porto and Lisbon DEC. Is it possible to get back to the UK regularly. Is jump seat travel possible?
Prior to the bidding system, the roster was great. Usually 12-14 days off and 850hrs/year.
Anyway, I have question about Porto and Lisbon DEC. Is it possible to get back to the UK regularly. Is jump seat travel possible?
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The bid system will work within the current fixed pattern so there should be no change to days off as I understand it. I would imagine it will be earlies/lates, long / short sectors, night stops / no night stops etc etc.
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You might apply for commuter travel, but you´ll nee to prove UK domicile. Commuting will be very difficult tough, because you don´t have a fix roster pattern (which is great for commuters). LGW base would suit you much better I would expect.
