Turkish Airlines THY working conditions - worse than announced?
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As an " OFF DAY" can include minimum rest ( although SHT OPS states otherwise) it is worth being back the day before a flight if commuting.. a " duty day" can start with a roster change to an early start and you could be left with your trousers down if not careful.. without doubt, it is the pilot whom is responsible for ensuring he/she is properly rested and " fit for duty" .. I have seen some guys literally hanging in the seat after the planned 8 hour day becomes a 14/15 hour stint..
Regarding the medical report and having to come to office if sick.. complete nonsense.. on-line reporting system in place,as posted an acknowledgement of report received is sent to your inbox..I believe Turkish law requires the SGK payments to be adjusted for sick days.
Required to fly "off day" is you say NO that's the end of it..they just call someone else.
Regarding people leaving in droves? not sure where this rumour comes from..maybe on the A320 fleet, seen no hard evidence of this on the Boeing fleets..but numbers are comparative, its a big airline.
The " real issue" is the training times, most LTI and TRI are working flat out and still guys are taking months to get through line sectors. Some FO groups that joined December have less than 20 hrs training to date.. as an example..
Having said that, sitting at home on full salary, whilst boring, can be lucrative! One FO I spoke with did 3 hours in April, that works out to 4000 lira an Hour.. more than my lawyers
Regarding the medical report and having to come to office if sick.. complete nonsense.. on-line reporting system in place,as posted an acknowledgement of report received is sent to your inbox..I believe Turkish law requires the SGK payments to be adjusted for sick days.
Required to fly "off day" is you say NO that's the end of it..they just call someone else.
Regarding people leaving in droves? not sure where this rumour comes from..maybe on the A320 fleet, seen no hard evidence of this on the Boeing fleets..but numbers are comparative, its a big airline.
The " real issue" is the training times, most LTI and TRI are working flat out and still guys are taking months to get through line sectors. Some FO groups that joined December have less than 20 hrs training to date.. as an example..
Having said that, sitting at home on full salary, whilst boring, can be lucrative! One FO I spoke with did 3 hours in April, that works out to 4000 lira an Hour.. more than my lawyers
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Regarding the salary increase: I received an email from one of the recruitment agencies stating there was a 20% increase in Salary. I replied saying I worked here and this was a lie and was basically fraudulent. Here was the reply
Thank you for the your email.
We are engaged by Turkish Airlines to advertise current terms for their open roles on offer. As of the 7th April 2015 we were informed by the airline that the salaries would be increased by the amount stated as below. We were also informed this would take immediate effect.
This is not mis-leading nor is this fraudulent.
A few pilots I previously placed with THY have been in contact informing me that they did not receive an increase in their latest salary over this weekend so I have been in contact with THY to advise this. I am sure there is a reasonable explanation in any case.
I recommend for you to follow up with the airline directly pertaining to the salary increase.
The "reasonable explanation" would be very interesting to hear!!
If this is true then THY has basically lied to th
e recruitment agencies. There was no extra pay rise at all. I was told by one of the locals that they accounted for 80 hours per month which gives you 10 hours overtime, and used that figure to promote a pay rise.
For those considering coming here, please do your homework as there is no increase in salary at all. With this recent "smoke and mirrors" campaign, the THY management have proved they will deceive and stretch the truth (at best) to make the job sound more appealing. IMO this makes things far worse.
Unfortunately this is the way the Turkish think. It's normal in their culture to "try it on" when it comes to money, however, they haven't realised yet that this is not the way most other cultures work.
Thank you for the your email.
We are engaged by Turkish Airlines to advertise current terms for their open roles on offer. As of the 7th April 2015 we were informed by the airline that the salaries would be increased by the amount stated as below. We were also informed this would take immediate effect.
This is not mis-leading nor is this fraudulent.
A few pilots I previously placed with THY have been in contact informing me that they did not receive an increase in their latest salary over this weekend so I have been in contact with THY to advise this. I am sure there is a reasonable explanation in any case.
I recommend for you to follow up with the airline directly pertaining to the salary increase.
The "reasonable explanation" would be very interesting to hear!!
If this is true then THY has basically lied to th
e recruitment agencies. There was no extra pay rise at all. I was told by one of the locals that they accounted for 80 hours per month which gives you 10 hours overtime, and used that figure to promote a pay rise.
For those considering coming here, please do your homework as there is no increase in salary at all. With this recent "smoke and mirrors" campaign, the THY management have proved they will deceive and stretch the truth (at best) to make the job sound more appealing. IMO this makes things far worse.
Unfortunately this is the way the Turkish think. It's normal in their culture to "try it on" when it comes to money, however, they haven't realised yet that this is not the way most other cultures work.
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What basic salary did you sign for and what do you get now?
Some was posting 18000 TL basic and the new is 21000 TL basic...thats about 20 % rise no?
If you joined few days before the announcement then maybe the increase was already factored in...
In any case lets not go into culture thing...i worked all over the world and believe me when I say a business oriented airline has not much to do with its country people.
If the rise was implemented over time then pilots got more than they signed for initially...seems increase is just to cover inflation.
Still pay is below market and they will continue to struggle finding qualified candidates,reducing minimum requirements is a double edged sword.
Some was posting 18000 TL basic and the new is 21000 TL basic...thats about 20 % rise no?
If you joined few days before the announcement then maybe the increase was already factored in...
In any case lets not go into culture thing...i worked all over the world and believe me when I say a business oriented airline has not much to do with its country people.
If the rise was implemented over time then pilots got more than they signed for initially...seems increase is just to cover inflation.
Still pay is below market and they will continue to struggle finding qualified candidates,reducing minimum requirements is a double edged sword.
Last edited by de facto; 12th May 2015 at 07:00.
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I signed a few years ago, so what I signed for in Lira is largely irrelevant as the inflation has been insane.
In terms of real use in the real world, my salary has declined approximately $1000 a month. That is when our adjusted yearly increment is applied twice a year, so it can be more of a loss as the months pass until the adjusted inflation rate. The increases are not keeping up with inflation, thus slowly earning less.
The accommodation allowance has remained the same for 6 years, so the purchasing power is far far less than it used to be.
When I joined US$1 = 1.4 Lira, Now its more like 2.7. Do the Math
In terms of real use in the real world, my salary has declined approximately $1000 a month. That is when our adjusted yearly increment is applied twice a year, so it can be more of a loss as the months pass until the adjusted inflation rate. The increases are not keeping up with inflation, thus slowly earning less.
The accommodation allowance has remained the same for 6 years, so the purchasing power is far far less than it used to be.
When I joined US$1 = 1.4 Lira, Now its more like 2.7. Do the Math
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The devil "could be" in the detail " current open roles" this in THY speak means a new joiner MAY get a better contract than an existing employee. Other airlines in Turkey play the same game, " new joiners" can be offered commute but "existing employees" not. Look at the bright side, unlike many high profile airlines, with THY your contract is with the airline directly, not via some trumped up, dodgy as hell " agency" that may leave you with huge tax exposures and no basics: LOL, Medical, Holdiay Pay, Maternity Leave, Compassion Leave, Dental, Housing etc etc. THY has received many NLH 787 applications for the 777 fleet..many EK and FR applications, maybe the grass isn't greener, but it,s no browner either
In real terms, a short haul Captain will net average 29-31K Lira and a LH slightly more. Last month I netted 11K Euro after converting, thats approx 7800 GBP NET or 3000GBP better than if I jump to NLH at Gatwick.. and yes.. I do know several guys at NLH.. FOs, well that's a different kettle of fish, can get stinky..
In real terms, a short haul Captain will net average 29-31K Lira and a LH slightly more. Last month I netted 11K Euro after converting, thats approx 7800 GBP NET or 3000GBP better than if I jump to NLH at Gatwick.. and yes.. I do know several guys at NLH.. FOs, well that's a different kettle of fish, can get stinky..
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That's not a very accurate representation Kirks !
Tell us how much overtime, Sunday Pay, and housing allowance was included. Take that away and I know for certain you didn't earn that much last month.
Tell us how much overtime, Sunday Pay, and housing allowance was included. Take that away and I know for certain you didn't earn that much last month.
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Hi guys, thanks for a good thread, but one thing that is not completely clear to me (excuse me if I misread something earlier), is if upgrades to longhaul are still possible for foreign FO's?
Despite all things written here, I might be interested in joining THY, but only if I can make a step to 777/330 within a reasonable period of time...
Despite all things written here, I might be interested in joining THY, but only if I can make a step to 777/330 within a reasonable period of time...
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Twenty something..It's an entirely accurate representation, however, as you point out it's not a " basic" as always, the smoke obscured the mirror! The real point being in ANY airline it is reasonable to expect additional payments for working off days, night stops, duties over 80 hours a month etc, in essence we are still comparing apples with apples..apart from during training I have never worked a " basic pay" month..my biggest gripe now is the fact many flights are full and getting back home can be an issue..even with the " special paper" from Flight Ops and with the DGCA rules post the German Wings nonsense jump seats are like hens teeth..
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Kirk Kirk as an Irish man you should be worrying about your soul. There ain't not enough Turks in management trying to screw expat and locals ?
Nothing worst than a pilot trying to screw other pilots for his own benefit.
Nevertheless.. your figure are wrong. As a narrow body captain your salary with 70 hours is 21,700 TL. Your figure includes 25 hours overtime and a life of endless duties and multiple sector plus I hear now many dodgy destination in Central Africa. I have still a few ( very few..the most are gone since long ago) friends down there..having a very very sorry life. The 12 hour rest in Istanbul will give the final push..worry not. Funny enough your friend O' Leary is proving a better employer.....go figure.
By the way ..how many hull losses do you plan for the year..
?
Nothing worst than a pilot trying to screw other pilots for his own benefit.
Nevertheless.. your figure are wrong. As a narrow body captain your salary with 70 hours is 21,700 TL. Your figure includes 25 hours overtime and a life of endless duties and multiple sector plus I hear now many dodgy destination in Central Africa. I have still a few ( very few..the most are gone since long ago) friends down there..having a very very sorry life. The 12 hour rest in Istanbul will give the final push..worry not. Funny enough your friend O' Leary is proving a better employer.....go figure.
By the way ..how many hull losses do you plan for the year..
?
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Pork Sausage dont worry my soul was sold to the devil years ago! Looking at the Pay scales, I agree with your basic figure, but you neglected to mention the 3 monthly extra salary, ( contractual) so that effectively would push a SH Captain put to 28K lira without O/T or night stops. Probably as Yabanci they will never fly at weekends.. but nevertheless. I am not saying THY is utopia but compared to Africa ( read ebola, and infested rooms, and women) Turkey is paradise..but it's a personal choice..I'll be having a glass with MOL in August and relay your compliments!
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Increase of salary ?
I confirm , there is no increase .
Worse; due to the change € / TL the pilots lost 8% in the last 2 months .
And everybody agreed; it would be even worse in the coming months
Why these recruitment agencies are playing this dirty game ?
I still thrusted few of them until now. Maybe I was naive.
Leave Turkish airlines playing this dirty game alone .
I confirm , there is no increase .
Worse; due to the change € / TL the pilots lost 8% in the last 2 months .
And everybody agreed; it would be even worse in the coming months
Why these recruitment agencies are playing this dirty game ?
I still thrusted few of them until now. Maybe I was naive.
Leave Turkish airlines playing this dirty game alone .
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There was a time, years ago where you could identify a good agency from the others. Today, you talk on the phone with parc or aviationcv and you think they are the very same agency... 
level.
level.
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Kirk... I had no doubt you was going to have a glass with MOL. Say hello to him and his Irish friends at Boeing from me and thank him to have rendered an appealing and respected job into a kind of circus of cheap looser. You find it soft as people have unfortunately lesser and lesser balls and are for sale for an Iphone. In effect the category is nowadays one small notch above truck drivers in Turkey often on par. Unfortunately it will not work.. wait and see the devastating effects on safety in the following years. Its already started. It was a good plan but still tell him the last word is not said yet..laughs the most who laughs the last. You mentioned Ebola. It actually stands to human beings as Irish stand to civil aviation and Europe. ...cheerio!
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Typical theme of the Industry.... Make the "checks" more stringent
Wouldn't this add fuel to an already raging fire?
Problem is, the real fix will cost money. More Pilots and better conditions. Ain't gonna happen yet IMO as the Airlines will exert too much pressure to the people that matter. This will be another face saving, public reasurance that we have now got to do more rigorous checks. Problem solved!
Wouldn't this add fuel to an already raging fire?
Problem is, the real fix will cost money. More Pilots and better conditions. Ain't gonna happen yet IMO as the Airlines will exert too much pressure to the people that matter. This will be another face saving, public reasurance that we have now got to do more rigorous checks. Problem solved!
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Lost Value
As long as they do not get the turn in Ankara as long the T & C are not going up. I do not mean the value of the currency only. Alot of lipservice and window dressing but nothing of substance.
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12 hour rule
The 12 hour rule as it is called by some is not a new thing invented by Turkish Airlines but the required rest time one needs to have in accordance with the flight duty and rest time limitations laid down by the DGCA of Turkey.
One may feel fit to fly arriving for check in right after traveling to one's designated home base but the journey there already counts as duty time and will probably lead to the flight not being legal. Normally no one will know when one actually arrived at their home base and how much rest time one actually had but if there is an incident of any kind investigators will look at every detail and they will find out that you were not legal to carry out this particular flight. The recent runway excursion and hard landing incident shows that at any time something can occur which will lead to investigators making sure that company employees are abiding by regulations.
Sometimes the official rest times will not necessarily lead to us feeling more rested, nevertheless it is our responsibility as pilots to make sure we are rested according to the regulations and not according to what we feel is right (meaning less than 12 hours at home base).
I don't quite understand how a company insisting on this is labeled "a third world outfit"? On the contrary....
One may feel fit to fly arriving for check in right after traveling to one's designated home base but the journey there already counts as duty time and will probably lead to the flight not being legal. Normally no one will know when one actually arrived at their home base and how much rest time one actually had but if there is an incident of any kind investigators will look at every detail and they will find out that you were not legal to carry out this particular flight. The recent runway excursion and hard landing incident shows that at any time something can occur which will lead to investigators making sure that company employees are abiding by regulations.
Sometimes the official rest times will not necessarily lead to us feeling more rested, nevertheless it is our responsibility as pilots to make sure we are rested according to the regulations and not according to what we feel is right (meaning less than 12 hours at home base).
I don't quite understand how a company insisting on this is labeled "a third world outfit"? On the contrary....