Turkish Airlines THY working conditions - worse than announced?
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What!!
I'm stunned to read anyone who is an expat pilot is getting paid in anything other than US dollars, Euros, British pounds or Gold coins.
I might be contracting for US defence sector companies, but I've never seen a contract that even hinted at paying a pilot in what is in effect a very dodgy currency if you don't live in Turkey. It's even a bit Iffy if you do live there.
I hope no one is silly enough to use a local bank account, cos if there is a run on government bonds it could be toast overnight.
When flying for a small company in third world countries, some chaps are sensible enough to ask for cash in hand (Prior to take off, if it's a tough job).
One chap who did a test flight in the Far East asked for and got 5K usd before first flight, then bent it and left the next day with 50 one hundred dollar bills in his pocket.
He thought he was on a winner, until he got home, as I had them swapped for good colour photo copies that nearly got him arrested at his own bank!
PS: I bet the P2F & P2type contract loans are denominated in Euros or dollars. If they are not, the interest rate will be in orbit soon.
NEVER PAY FOR TRAINING UNLESS YOU REGARD AN AIRLINE AS SOME TYPE OF CHARITY, BUT be careful of paying the "Church of the 7th day Airbus group" for any kind of seat!
I might be contracting for US defence sector companies, but I've never seen a contract that even hinted at paying a pilot in what is in effect a very dodgy currency if you don't live in Turkey. It's even a bit Iffy if you do live there.
I hope no one is silly enough to use a local bank account, cos if there is a run on government bonds it could be toast overnight.
When flying for a small company in third world countries, some chaps are sensible enough to ask for cash in hand (Prior to take off, if it's a tough job).
One chap who did a test flight in the Far East asked for and got 5K usd before first flight, then bent it and left the next day with 50 one hundred dollar bills in his pocket.
He thought he was on a winner, until he got home, as I had them swapped for good colour photo copies that nearly got him arrested at his own bank!
PS: I bet the P2F & P2type contract loans are denominated in Euros or dollars. If they are not, the interest rate will be in orbit soon.
NEVER PAY FOR TRAINING UNLESS YOU REGARD AN AIRLINE AS SOME TYPE OF CHARITY, BUT be careful of paying the "Church of the 7th day Airbus group" for any kind of seat!
Last edited by skyship007; 24th Aug 2015 at 13:30.
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Tk
Guys first of all u dont know whats goin on turkey right now and everyone has an idea in this topic.
-Euro,dollar,quid are increasing against turkish liras due to political reasons cos all the parties which are in the parliament, didnt make an agreement to make a government and thats why these things are affecting TRY against dollar after new election we can compare it again.
-Second of all some people keep annoying with tk.I think u guys ve really opportunity working as a pilot in this company as a foreigner.I'm a turkish and no european companies are givin me that kinda opportunity right now.I can give you an example,if i wanna work for LX,LH,AF or x company in europe,First condition will be like you must hold eu citizenship so that means i will be directly eliminated.As a result even if i know everything,it means that i will not work for lufthansa right?But whole you guys who live in europe ve this opportunity and working for our flag carrier company.
-Thirdly have u ever made a research how many foreign pilot works for lufthansa i mean non german or the same thing for BA or AF as well and compare all the figures with TK.I'm sure that u will see the difference after u searched or For example do you know that TK wants a university degree from turkish pilots but not from foreigners...Just get much more info guys..If ur aim is really being a part of aviation here is the chance. U can use it.
-Lastly,maybe when u converted all these numbers it doesnt look like too much but when u look at the whole conditions in turkey tk is offering a good money for the crew(pilots and fa).its an example like teachers are getting around 2000 TL per month and pilots are getting 14000TL per month so noone can say me that 14000TL is not enough money for turkey cos its really quite good money.
-Before making a criticize think twice and consider what kinda opportunities u have.if its not working on u,Tk also will not push u so hard and dont work for this airline as well.Its simple
-Euro,dollar,quid are increasing against turkish liras due to political reasons cos all the parties which are in the parliament, didnt make an agreement to make a government and thats why these things are affecting TRY against dollar after new election we can compare it again.
-Second of all some people keep annoying with tk.I think u guys ve really opportunity working as a pilot in this company as a foreigner.I'm a turkish and no european companies are givin me that kinda opportunity right now.I can give you an example,if i wanna work for LX,LH,AF or x company in europe,First condition will be like you must hold eu citizenship so that means i will be directly eliminated.As a result even if i know everything,it means that i will not work for lufthansa right?But whole you guys who live in europe ve this opportunity and working for our flag carrier company.
-Thirdly have u ever made a research how many foreign pilot works for lufthansa i mean non german or the same thing for BA or AF as well and compare all the figures with TK.I'm sure that u will see the difference after u searched or For example do you know that TK wants a university degree from turkish pilots but not from foreigners...Just get much more info guys..If ur aim is really being a part of aviation here is the chance. U can use it.
-Lastly,maybe when u converted all these numbers it doesnt look like too much but when u look at the whole conditions in turkey tk is offering a good money for the crew(pilots and fa).its an example like teachers are getting around 2000 TL per month and pilots are getting 14000TL per month so noone can say me that 14000TL is not enough money for turkey cos its really quite good money.
-Before making a criticize think twice and consider what kinda opportunities u have.if its not working on u,Tk also will not push u so hard and dont work for this airline as well.Its simple
Last edited by TK1; 24th Aug 2015 at 22:12.
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TK 1 I think you are showing your self the limited understanding of the rest of world you have in Turkey.
Turkey has been trying ( or pretending to be willing ) to access the EU for 40 years and you can just blame your Government if you still are out of it and cannot work there. Beside Turkish license are not really well seen in many other part of the world. Why? Well look at the English levels... all 6 in Turkey but not many can really have a real conversation. Its your "style" the real problem dude.
You are mentioning LH BA AF and you say you cannot work there? Well they don't need you and don't need me regardless of nationality. And beside none of them as a requirement for a university degree (which is by the way plainly stupid as it drains resources from other sectors of economy to put them in a job that requires other skills often not present in "scholars"). Its just a way for the airforce mafia to limit access to the profession of civilians and the same time make themselves " important". Looking at the accident statistics it would seem THY should look for people with the right skills and attitude not for engineers driven to aviation way too many times just by money as yourself admit.
But Turkish do desperately needs foreigners as many other airline in the world do. But unlike these other airlines THY refuses to provide them with a fair deal.A currency protection or payment in real money is the international standard along with a transparent and fair approach on career progression. Your problems all comes from your blurring "hyper nationalistic" view, inherent frustrations and the fact that Turks often think they are smarter than they actually are and this, trust me will bring more pain to Turkey and might seal the fate of THY. As you say nobody forced us to work for THY.In fact I and hundreds of other professional aviators, stunned by the THY approach, left already. Many followed and much more will if you don't stop acting like they are your slaves because trust me ..you got it completely wrong and are just making fools of yourselves. Expat are not really interested in the sociopolitical dynamics of your country. Even if I think is evident to many what is going they don't want to get involved. They want to do their job, get an amount of money consistent with it and have time to go home see their families that they still have to maintain in their currencies USD or EUR. Expat don't give a damn that you are happy with your now 3900 Euro per month FO salary because they can make 8000 in a real airline in the Gulf or 5000 back home flying for a low cost carrier for example. The advantages of Istanbul over the Gulf were the climate, the European and democratic feel, its vicinity to Europe and the salaries that were not bad at all when I left with the lira at 2 or something against the EURO. Now that it is more and more clear that the European feel is vastly a mockery money is risible, rosters are not survivable and going home for the vast majority is almost impossible,,, you are left with the climate ( that in winter sucks by the way) ...not enough...sorry and many will be departing by year end. The chauvinist will be satisfied..worry not.
Turkey has been trying ( or pretending to be willing ) to access the EU for 40 years and you can just blame your Government if you still are out of it and cannot work there. Beside Turkish license are not really well seen in many other part of the world. Why? Well look at the English levels... all 6 in Turkey but not many can really have a real conversation. Its your "style" the real problem dude.
You are mentioning LH BA AF and you say you cannot work there? Well they don't need you and don't need me regardless of nationality. And beside none of them as a requirement for a university degree (which is by the way plainly stupid as it drains resources from other sectors of economy to put them in a job that requires other skills often not present in "scholars"). Its just a way for the airforce mafia to limit access to the profession of civilians and the same time make themselves " important". Looking at the accident statistics it would seem THY should look for people with the right skills and attitude not for engineers driven to aviation way too many times just by money as yourself admit.
But Turkish do desperately needs foreigners as many other airline in the world do. But unlike these other airlines THY refuses to provide them with a fair deal.A currency protection or payment in real money is the international standard along with a transparent and fair approach on career progression. Your problems all comes from your blurring "hyper nationalistic" view, inherent frustrations and the fact that Turks often think they are smarter than they actually are and this, trust me will bring more pain to Turkey and might seal the fate of THY. As you say nobody forced us to work for THY.In fact I and hundreds of other professional aviators, stunned by the THY approach, left already. Many followed and much more will if you don't stop acting like they are your slaves because trust me ..you got it completely wrong and are just making fools of yourselves. Expat are not really interested in the sociopolitical dynamics of your country. Even if I think is evident to many what is going they don't want to get involved. They want to do their job, get an amount of money consistent with it and have time to go home see their families that they still have to maintain in their currencies USD or EUR. Expat don't give a damn that you are happy with your now 3900 Euro per month FO salary because they can make 8000 in a real airline in the Gulf or 5000 back home flying for a low cost carrier for example. The advantages of Istanbul over the Gulf were the climate, the European and democratic feel, its vicinity to Europe and the salaries that were not bad at all when I left with the lira at 2 or something against the EURO. Now that it is more and more clear that the European feel is vastly a mockery money is risible, rosters are not survivable and going home for the vast majority is almost impossible,,, you are left with the climate ( that in winter sucks by the way) ...not enough...sorry and many will be departing by year end. The chauvinist will be satisfied..worry not.
Last edited by porkflyer; 25th Aug 2015 at 11:04.
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TK1, you're post would indicate you are not fond of the Yabanci Pilot.
Saying the average wage in Turkey is 2000 Lira pm (US$680pm = US$157 p/w!!) then comparing what a "Pilot" gets in support of how lucky we should feel, just shocks me. Without going into obvious details this shows your complete lack of understanding of how the world works. You are stuck in the Turkish mindset.
I appreciate you have an opinion on the foreigner in TK. I actually can understand and Empathise with you. However, your argument just doesn't have any value to someone who pays their bills in Europe or other first world countries. Even living in Turkey, they will retire back home and have nothing of value by working here. We don't all live in Turkey my friend!
Don't try to make it out that the Turkish are so nice that they have expats! It's purely out of the need for qualified drivers. If TK went through a slump, the Yabanci Pilots would be gone in a heart beat!
BTW, generally a "Degree" in Turkey, is not the same as a "Degree" in Europe.
Saying the average wage in Turkey is 2000 Lira pm (US$680pm = US$157 p/w!!) then comparing what a "Pilot" gets in support of how lucky we should feel, just shocks me. Without going into obvious details this shows your complete lack of understanding of how the world works. You are stuck in the Turkish mindset.
I appreciate you have an opinion on the foreigner in TK. I actually can understand and Empathise with you. However, your argument just doesn't have any value to someone who pays their bills in Europe or other first world countries. Even living in Turkey, they will retire back home and have nothing of value by working here. We don't all live in Turkey my friend!
Don't try to make it out that the Turkish are so nice that they have expats! It's purely out of the need for qualified drivers. If TK went through a slump, the Yabanci Pilots would be gone in a heart beat!
BTW, generally a "Degree" in Turkey, is not the same as a "Degree" in Europe.
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A little mouse told me the reason why THY doesnt increase Captain's pay is because they simply can not.
The Union of pilots and cabin crews are tied which means an increase in pilots pay would automatically warrant an increase in cabin crews and those they have plenty.
Some airlines provide currency protection for the few, but i bet those dont have unions.
Concerning the Lira fall,it is in pair with the recent political,geographical growing issues in turkey but also due to the recent markets correction seen around the world...yes PORK in our beloved Europe as well.
Even your ryan shares fell by 10 percent in a few days,but dont worry corrections dont last long and trend normally goes back up in its own time,so you can play golf in peace.
The well informed mouse also told me that many pilots have left and I dont doubt that many more will follow in 4-5 months as the interview process and 3 months notices delay the actual facts.
The salary package still wont be improved as the Government and therefore THY believe their currency will improve...just wait for the yanks economy to bubble and burst yet again ,the feds will devalue the USD and cash will go back to Turkey to enjoy 9-10% deposit rates.
Without ups and downs ,markets wouldnt make any money now would they?
The Union of pilots and cabin crews are tied which means an increase in pilots pay would automatically warrant an increase in cabin crews and those they have plenty.
Some airlines provide currency protection for the few, but i bet those dont have unions.
Concerning the Lira fall,it is in pair with the recent political,geographical growing issues in turkey but also due to the recent markets correction seen around the world...yes PORK in our beloved Europe as well.
Even your ryan shares fell by 10 percent in a few days,but dont worry corrections dont last long and trend normally goes back up in its own time,so you can play golf in peace.
The well informed mouse also told me that many pilots have left and I dont doubt that many more will follow in 4-5 months as the interview process and 3 months notices delay the actual facts.
The salary package still wont be improved as the Government and therefore THY believe their currency will improve...just wait for the yanks economy to bubble and burst yet again ,the feds will devalue the USD and cash will go back to Turkey to enjoy 9-10% deposit rates.
Without ups and downs ,markets wouldnt make any money now would they?
Last edited by de facto; 25th Aug 2015 at 10:00.
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"UPS and downs" in the Lira. You gotta be F###king joking right??!!
Have a look at history. Any ups are followed by much much larger downs, the long term trend has not and will not change. For the Delusional on here, that trend is DOWN!!
Have a look at history. Any ups are followed by much much larger downs, the long term trend has not and will not change. For the Delusional on here, that trend is DOWN!!
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Never said the TL/USD trend was or will be up
I said that markets including currency ups and downs are inevitable and when corrections happen,they are followed by an uptrend,an uptrend which lasts depending on many factors,political,economy,markets sentiment..
Twentyyears...i only wish you can move to china,the capitalism way of expat hiring will fit you perfectly,just as it fitted me.
I said that markets including currency ups and downs are inevitable and when corrections happen,they are followed by an uptrend,an uptrend which lasts depending on many factors,political,economy,markets sentiment..
Twentyyears...i only wish you can move to china,the capitalism way of expat hiring will fit you perfectly,just as it fitted me.
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De Facto..Ryanair is changing and offering now direct employment with pension and tax paid in the country you are based in. If you weigh in regular fixed pattern 5/4 5/3 rosters, fast upgrades, and substantial expansion I would not be surprised if many expat FO/CPT working for THY will soon depart just for your reference..
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TK
Some people didnt understand what i talked about and i dont understand why u guys get offended?
-I will try to explain it again then.When i gave the salary of teachers,it was just an example and it means this money is enough to live but ofc pilots are getting much more this and how is that possible u still dont like this money?
-I look at the advantages what i have so thats why im looking at from this window.As i see that u dont ve too much options like me if ure thinking about tk as well.Ofc AF,BA,LH etc dont need us but making a generalization will not bring any benefit..How do you know that i dont have that kinda skills?? You can try at first and then you can say that ohh u dont have that? Why do you block me ******* stupid passport reasons?? At least tk doesnt block someone else and they are getting the one who is really good .We are talking aviation not political things so this aviation should be international and these rules like citizenship issues should not be an obstacle in front of me.
-When we comes to eu policy,everyone knows that we are waiting in front of door of eu i dont know how many years 40,50? People dont belive in that we will be in eu and for maybe 10 years turkey didnt do anything for eu and there is no progress now.You know why even getting bulgaria and some of countries like bulgaria in eu and saying turkey ohh ure even worse than bulgaria (last example is greece i know that u know whats goin on in greece and how much money eu will send them more) means for the turkish people this is a christian community and stop to try to get in eu.Bulgaria is in eu right now and if you go both bulgaria and turkey,you can see the difference and why its like this.In addition to,Some of european people claims turkey doesnt have a land in europe..I wanna ask you a question Cyprus has a land in eu??? Open a map and look at this map ofc i know that turkey has small land in europe but we still have right just look at the cyprus pls.Another issue is that due to our population if we will enter eu,we will send a lot of member to eu parliament but french and german presidents dont like this situation as well so thats why france and germany never want to take turkey in eu.Pls dont defend eu rules against turkey cos we know whats going on.We are not stupid just put urself into our position and start to think about it.You cant say that ohh this aspect is not good according to me cos its not working on me.Its the same mate ur aspect doesnt work on me as well.
-twentyyearstoolate,this sentence directly to you mate.You have really no idea about my country and it makes me really laugh.You made a generalization again how do you know that a "Degree" in Turkey, is not the same as a "Degree" in Europe.. I graduated from Middle East Technical University as a mechanical engineer go and search about it.Its in top 100 uni. in the world. and im sure that this education much more better than many universities in europe.I dont care other people who graduated from bulshi... universities.And TK doesnt even want something from foreign pilots..It's just eu people has a lot of opinions or they are smart? No i dont think so according to me this TK system is retarded.I can give you an example cos we got experienced all these things before both turkish and eu pilots.
-Last word is about english level..I went a lot of countries in europe,ve been there and i saw one thing.Except uk and dutch people,rest of europe has more or less the same english education.UK its their own native language and dutch people are also good at this but the rest such as belgium,germany,french,italy,spain etc noone can say me that they have really good english level.its individual thing.Probably you saw this video this captain hakan and f/o kerem doesnt have good english in this video? and trust me TK has that kinda pilots who are really good in english.Only talking about bad things will not bring any benefits.Click to video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G97_JGce7_E
-Lastly,as i said before if currency is really disturbing you or turkish people or whatver the reason is.Instead of talking why turkish doesnt give this money or this option,you have plenty of option guys.You can find a company in europe or you can go to middle east carriers such as qatar,etihad or emirates.Do not apply and thats it.
-Regards,
-I will try to explain it again then.When i gave the salary of teachers,it was just an example and it means this money is enough to live but ofc pilots are getting much more this and how is that possible u still dont like this money?
-I look at the advantages what i have so thats why im looking at from this window.As i see that u dont ve too much options like me if ure thinking about tk as well.Ofc AF,BA,LH etc dont need us but making a generalization will not bring any benefit..How do you know that i dont have that kinda skills?? You can try at first and then you can say that ohh u dont have that? Why do you block me ******* stupid passport reasons?? At least tk doesnt block someone else and they are getting the one who is really good .We are talking aviation not political things so this aviation should be international and these rules like citizenship issues should not be an obstacle in front of me.
-When we comes to eu policy,everyone knows that we are waiting in front of door of eu i dont know how many years 40,50? People dont belive in that we will be in eu and for maybe 10 years turkey didnt do anything for eu and there is no progress now.You know why even getting bulgaria and some of countries like bulgaria in eu and saying turkey ohh ure even worse than bulgaria (last example is greece i know that u know whats goin on in greece and how much money eu will send them more) means for the turkish people this is a christian community and stop to try to get in eu.Bulgaria is in eu right now and if you go both bulgaria and turkey,you can see the difference and why its like this.In addition to,Some of european people claims turkey doesnt have a land in europe..I wanna ask you a question Cyprus has a land in eu??? Open a map and look at this map ofc i know that turkey has small land in europe but we still have right just look at the cyprus pls.Another issue is that due to our population if we will enter eu,we will send a lot of member to eu parliament but french and german presidents dont like this situation as well so thats why france and germany never want to take turkey in eu.Pls dont defend eu rules against turkey cos we know whats going on.We are not stupid just put urself into our position and start to think about it.You cant say that ohh this aspect is not good according to me cos its not working on me.Its the same mate ur aspect doesnt work on me as well.
-twentyyearstoolate,this sentence directly to you mate.You have really no idea about my country and it makes me really laugh.You made a generalization again how do you know that a "Degree" in Turkey, is not the same as a "Degree" in Europe.. I graduated from Middle East Technical University as a mechanical engineer go and search about it.Its in top 100 uni. in the world. and im sure that this education much more better than many universities in europe.I dont care other people who graduated from bulshi... universities.And TK doesnt even want something from foreign pilots..It's just eu people has a lot of opinions or they are smart? No i dont think so according to me this TK system is retarded.I can give you an example cos we got experienced all these things before both turkish and eu pilots.
-Last word is about english level..I went a lot of countries in europe,ve been there and i saw one thing.Except uk and dutch people,rest of europe has more or less the same english education.UK its their own native language and dutch people are also good at this but the rest such as belgium,germany,french,italy,spain etc noone can say me that they have really good english level.its individual thing.Probably you saw this video this captain hakan and f/o kerem doesnt have good english in this video? and trust me TK has that kinda pilots who are really good in english.Only talking about bad things will not bring any benefits.Click to video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G97_JGce7_E
-Lastly,as i said before if currency is really disturbing you or turkish people or whatver the reason is.Instead of talking why turkish doesnt give this money or this option,you have plenty of option guys.You can find a company in europe or you can go to middle east carriers such as qatar,etihad or emirates.Do not apply and thats it.
-Regards,
Last edited by TK1; 25th Aug 2015 at 14:15.
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De Facto..Ryanair is changing and offering now direct employment with pension and tax paid in the country you are based in. If you weigh in regular fixed pattern 5/4 5/3 rosters, fast upgrades, and substantial expansion I would not be surprised if many expat FO/CPT working for THY will soon depart just for your reference..
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De Facto..Ryanair is changing and offering now direct employment with pension and tax paid in the country you are based in. If you weigh in regular fixed pattern 5/4 5/3 rosters, fast upgrades, and substantial expansion I would not be surprised if many expat FO/CPT working for THY will soon depart just for your reference..
we all are and cuts our wages by two without blinking an eye.No thanks.
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Middle East Technical University Rankings | Top Universities
http://www.topuniversities.com/unive...=false+search=
TK1 METU is below 400th in the World... 187 out of 200 best university are in Europe sorry.You are making all this fuss about higher education that I say again it is not required in aviation if not at times in the US where out of high school they can barely count to 10. Still sure THY can impose in his cadets this requirements as high school in Turkey seems to be not the best.Still thinking that this will make you a better pilot is wrong and seen the fact that unlike Turkey high school education in EU is very good ( to a point that you get an associate degree in the US) imposing the same requirement on expat experienced pilot or discriminating them for upgrade its one of the most stupid thing I have ever happen to see. But doing differently would be admitting your " inferiority". But don't worry we all know Turkey is the best country in world, THY the best airlines, Turks the best pilot....ok ok !! Ah forgot..In the country you mention pilot has to take real English tests with reliable results. In Turkey.. ah ah ah..I remember all level 6 come one... at least make it a 4 !!
http://www.topuniversities.com/unive...=false+search=
TK1 METU is below 400th in the World... 187 out of 200 best university are in Europe sorry.You are making all this fuss about higher education that I say again it is not required in aviation if not at times in the US where out of high school they can barely count to 10. Still sure THY can impose in his cadets this requirements as high school in Turkey seems to be not the best.Still thinking that this will make you a better pilot is wrong and seen the fact that unlike Turkey high school education in EU is very good ( to a point that you get an associate degree in the US) imposing the same requirement on expat experienced pilot or discriminating them for upgrade its one of the most stupid thing I have ever happen to see. But doing differently would be admitting your " inferiority". But don't worry we all know Turkey is the best country in world, THY the best airlines, Turks the best pilot....ok ok !! Ah forgot..In the country you mention pilot has to take real English tests with reliable results. In Turkey.. ah ah ah..I remember all level 6 come one... at least make it a 4 !!
Last edited by porkflyer; 25th Aug 2015 at 16:33.
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Tk
Im asking you again whats your problem? i really dont understand why you behave like this.
According to this research i told you.It's official website of the uni as well and these were published.
ODTÜ is placed among the ?Top 100 Universities by Reputation? | METU | Middle East Technical University
ODTÜ Ranked 12th Among the Asia Universities | METU | Middle East Technical University
-Noone told you that turks are the best pilots or thy is the best airline ever dont behave like 12 years old kid.Im telling you all these things with reasons and showing you examples.I dont even know who you are and i really dont understand why you are attacking instead of listening someone who is talking from that country..
-I'm telling you there are also good people in that company who has good education good ENGLISH level as well.I showed you this video do you think that these pilots dont have good english level??Every LH pilot has a really good english level or AF pilot..Yeah maybe ure from the uk and its ur native language but i dont think that every pilot ve that kinda skills from other companies,i came there(eu) i saw it by my eyes,cos i travelled with all these companies as well.
-From whole these sentences picking one and making some comments will not be good for us.If you are gonna talk to me about my country and about my flag carrier company you should show me with an examples like i showed you.
-I will show you another news maybe you can translate from turkish to english.1 year ago a pilot from romania who was a tk captain were landed to taxi way instead of runway.If that captain was a turkish,i dont even know what kinda things you would even consider.That doesnt mean that every foreign will bring good things to our company thats what i am saying and thinking.If you are a good one why not take your chance and do your best im not against.
THY’NİN YABANCI PİLOTU PİSTİ ŞAŞIRDI
-I will not tell you again.IF you dont like the things about tk or turkey,DO NOT come this country.Simple!
According to this research i told you.It's official website of the uni as well and these were published.
ODTÜ is placed among the ?Top 100 Universities by Reputation? | METU | Middle East Technical University
ODTÜ Ranked 12th Among the Asia Universities | METU | Middle East Technical University
-Noone told you that turks are the best pilots or thy is the best airline ever dont behave like 12 years old kid.Im telling you all these things with reasons and showing you examples.I dont even know who you are and i really dont understand why you are attacking instead of listening someone who is talking from that country..
-I'm telling you there are also good people in that company who has good education good ENGLISH level as well.I showed you this video do you think that these pilots dont have good english level??Every LH pilot has a really good english level or AF pilot..Yeah maybe ure from the uk and its ur native language but i dont think that every pilot ve that kinda skills from other companies,i came there(eu) i saw it by my eyes,cos i travelled with all these companies as well.
-From whole these sentences picking one and making some comments will not be good for us.If you are gonna talk to me about my country and about my flag carrier company you should show me with an examples like i showed you.
-I will show you another news maybe you can translate from turkish to english.1 year ago a pilot from romania who was a tk captain were landed to taxi way instead of runway.If that captain was a turkish,i dont even know what kinda things you would even consider.That doesnt mean that every foreign will bring good things to our company thats what i am saying and thinking.If you are a good one why not take your chance and do your best im not against.
THY’NİN YABANCI PİLOTU PİSTİ ŞAŞIRDI
-I will not tell you again.IF you dont like the things about tk or turkey,DO NOT come this country.Simple!
Last edited by TK1; 25th Aug 2015 at 17:57.
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Tk
Yeah he is.But he is a turkish right? I pay attention not only captain but also first officer as well according to me he has a good level and he can be good one in future.my point is that there are many pilots we have like those one.Everyone is really good?? I cant say that but i can really say that we have pretty good one especially who are younger and not related with military.
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TK1: "He is Turkish right!" Well, he has Turkish Parents yes. But raised in Australia and when he came to Turkey he couldn't speak Turkish, so of course his English is excellent as it's his native language. You use this as an example of the Turkish Pilots. I'm sorry to say but he is not representative of the general English level.
I do agree with you that the younger Turkish Pilots (Not Military!!) have a good understanding of English. Hopefully that continues.
You do need to broaden your horizons and maybe look at other parts of the world, as your arguments come across as a pissed of Turk with an attitude.
BTW, your University is pretty low compared to world standards, and that is, as you say, one of your top universities. Don't get me wrong, this is not a dig at the Turkish individual. I have flown with many young FO's who are very intelligent and switched on, and would run rings around me in terms of their intelligence. However, I'm more talking about the Turkish "System" of education. That is just not on par with the "top universities". In general, someone from Europe who has finished High School would have a far higher education standard. Not the individuals fault, but the system they have been subjected to.
Unfortunately your country's leadership is not concerned with your well being or education.
At the end of the day, we are looking from an International perspective which is where we have to pay our Bills, as was previously posted. We don't live in Turkey, and do not work in Jobs that pay 2000 Lira. I earn less now than I did 15 years ago, and don't appreciate being told by a local how lucky I am!
You are right in the way that "If we don't like it we can leave". Problem is, it's not so simple. Remember THY constantly change the goal posts, as it suits them, so what we signed for is not necessarily what we have now. Maybe you're used to this in Turkey, but where I come from, a contract is a contract, and doesn't change on a constant basis.
Is it any wonder your Union is a wet rag? How the hell are they supposed to achieve anything when you're so happy that you earn more than a teacher in Turkey!! Time to go and buy that Mercedes C180!
I do agree with you that the younger Turkish Pilots (Not Military!!) have a good understanding of English. Hopefully that continues.
You do need to broaden your horizons and maybe look at other parts of the world, as your arguments come across as a pissed of Turk with an attitude.
BTW, your University is pretty low compared to world standards, and that is, as you say, one of your top universities. Don't get me wrong, this is not a dig at the Turkish individual. I have flown with many young FO's who are very intelligent and switched on, and would run rings around me in terms of their intelligence. However, I'm more talking about the Turkish "System" of education. That is just not on par with the "top universities". In general, someone from Europe who has finished High School would have a far higher education standard. Not the individuals fault, but the system they have been subjected to.
Unfortunately your country's leadership is not concerned with your well being or education.
At the end of the day, we are looking from an International perspective which is where we have to pay our Bills, as was previously posted. We don't live in Turkey, and do not work in Jobs that pay 2000 Lira. I earn less now than I did 15 years ago, and don't appreciate being told by a local how lucky I am!
You are right in the way that "If we don't like it we can leave". Problem is, it's not so simple. Remember THY constantly change the goal posts, as it suits them, so what we signed for is not necessarily what we have now. Maybe you're used to this in Turkey, but where I come from, a contract is a contract, and doesn't change on a constant basis.
Is it any wonder your Union is a wet rag? How the hell are they supposed to achieve anything when you're so happy that you earn more than a teacher in Turkey!! Time to go and buy that Mercedes C180!
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TK1:
while i do respect your point of views and congratulate in you in aleast trying to understand the yabanci mentality and having said this let me pose the other side of the equations to you...
i might be mistaken but this is one of the slef centred views i have come across more so in my 9 Years in Turkish Aviation than any other country or carrier i have flown for... Yes we should be fortunate that THY was hiring during the GFD years but this is by no mean a opportunity to expect a expat to have a meanor to be lucky to have a job and shut up..
some of the remarks here exhibit high levels of imaginations and equal amounts of bull$#it never the less its a median where by people can convey their views openly.. Your seem to be upset by looking at the issue from your perspective as a LOCAL and not an expat..
I have spent 10 years in this country and i like it as it suits my lifestyle and as a single person i am not bound to any responsibilities other than my expensive tastes Unlike the majority of expats in THY who have families and expenses pegged on currencies such as the USD and Euro... so to give an example with regard to pilot vs teacher salaries is meaningless... it would not matter if pilots where earning 100,000 Lira /Mth if the value of it was on par with the Zimbabwe Dollar.. lets face it the majority of expats here have families loans and hobbies etc that are either in USD or EURO.. next time you go to purchase a car in turkey you would know the feeling unless your content of driving the localk TOFAS or Murat cars. better yet try taking a 30% salary cut and im sure you would be singing in the same quire as these gentalman.
Now when you say look at these airlines and give exmples...IT IS IMPORTANT TO COMPARE A APPLE TO APPLES and not Something ELSE... You look at these leagcy carriers they have all PLANED their growth and made changes to the operation foundation to accommodate the growth LH, LXetc wil not go an order 300 airframes without first studying the needs. THY ont he other hand works the other way around Order first and find a solutions as the problem arises.. this is a typical business model with any rap[id expansion... The other note is THEY have the LUXURY to stipulate their requirements and they HAVE plenty of feeders to there workforce.. Just compare G.A scene in Turkey and Germany... In Germany you have ample amounts a flight training organisations you have a very busy charter and regional network which provide the cycle of human resources, military and not to mention LH very completive cadet program... where as in turkey You have a handful (3-4) of "suitably qualified" flight schools, limited military feeder and virtually NO G.A... so it comes to supply and demand ... when there is a Abundant supply you can ask for a citizen with PHD and be fluent in 5 langues if you like but at the end of the day THY has the demand but VERY LIMITED SUPPLY...
regardless please read the previous comments....
With all due respects and i dont mean to offend you but a degree is worth as much as the paper it is printed on.. The degree will only teach you a discipline not a skill.. a skill is developed over time with experience and having the right mentality to learn. when i say this i know the education system here in Turkey i even done the equivalency for MY DEGREE from a RESPECTED university. This degree nonsense was put in place because of the Turkish educational systems shortcomings not not because it made one a better aviator or manager... nor does memorising answers to quesations make you more inteligent either
i understand you dont like or you have reservations from foreigners but if your really love and respect THY refrain from such comments as this will not help your cause or THY.. at the end of the THY need expats (for the time being) at a resource and professional level. you have the opportunity to learn and vast amount of information from skilled aviators/manages who have specialised experiences that you may lack.. rather than shutting the door on improvement and just saying shut up and be thankful.. discuses your issues in an objective manor... ITS CALLED constructive criticism... there is a saying .. the safety and health of an organisation is not judged by its success it but of constructive criticism that takes place prior.
may be look at it from the other perspective if you didnt have expats would THY continue to grow as much..it could be that were are aiding in employing more locals crew that you think??
as for the language barrier we understand English is not your native language nor is most of Europe Asia or Latin America.. there are problems from each region and bound to be questionable level 6 certificates having g said this from a PROFESSIONAL standpoint and a SAFETY one as well.. we are professionals and THE common Language in Aviation is English. There as some that can communicated at a very good level of English and some lets say confuse them selves when they just say hello... nevertheless it wouldn't matter if your Chuck Yeager and know how to fly with sniper skills if you don't understand whats going on around you... its the fundamentals of S.A CRM Derision Making
H.T may be of Turkish Origin but he was Raised in Australia until his mid 20's mate ....his whole mentality and way of thinking exhibited more Aussie -western traits when he first came thus His native language is English and Not Turkish.. rule of primacy you can cover a cake with fondon and icing but at the end of the day the cake is whats inside .. btw the FO was educated in USA
my advice if you want to know or figure out all this hype here... come with an open mind and sit down with a few of us over a beer and talk... simple as that...
(my apologies for the spelling and grammar after a long day i couldnt find the tenacity to proof read the above )
while i do respect your point of views and congratulate in you in aleast trying to understand the yabanci mentality and having said this let me pose the other side of the equations to you...
I think u guys ve really opportunity working as a pilot in this company as a foreigner.I'm a turkish and no european companies are givin me that kinda opportunity right now.I can give you an example,if i wanna work for LX,LH,AF or x company in europe,First condition will be like you must hold eu citizenship so that means i will be directly eliminated.As a result even if i know everything,it means that i will not work for lufthansa right?But whole you guys who live in europe ve this opportunity and working for our flag carrier company.
some of the remarks here exhibit high levels of imaginations and equal amounts of bull$#it never the less its a median where by people can convey their views openly.. Your seem to be upset by looking at the issue from your perspective as a LOCAL and not an expat..
I have spent 10 years in this country and i like it as it suits my lifestyle and as a single person i am not bound to any responsibilities other than my expensive tastes Unlike the majority of expats in THY who have families and expenses pegged on currencies such as the USD and Euro... so to give an example with regard to pilot vs teacher salaries is meaningless... it would not matter if pilots where earning 100,000 Lira /Mth if the value of it was on par with the Zimbabwe Dollar.. lets face it the majority of expats here have families loans and hobbies etc that are either in USD or EURO.. next time you go to purchase a car in turkey you would know the feeling unless your content of driving the localk TOFAS or Murat cars. better yet try taking a 30% salary cut and im sure you would be singing in the same quire as these gentalman.
Now when you say look at these airlines and give exmples...IT IS IMPORTANT TO COMPARE A APPLE TO APPLES and not Something ELSE... You look at these leagcy carriers they have all PLANED their growth and made changes to the operation foundation to accommodate the growth LH, LXetc wil not go an order 300 airframes without first studying the needs. THY ont he other hand works the other way around Order first and find a solutions as the problem arises.. this is a typical business model with any rap[id expansion... The other note is THEY have the LUXURY to stipulate their requirements and they HAVE plenty of feeders to there workforce.. Just compare G.A scene in Turkey and Germany... In Germany you have ample amounts a flight training organisations you have a very busy charter and regional network which provide the cycle of human resources, military and not to mention LH very completive cadet program... where as in turkey You have a handful (3-4) of "suitably qualified" flight schools, limited military feeder and virtually NO G.A... so it comes to supply and demand ... when there is a Abundant supply you can ask for a citizen with PHD and be fluent in 5 langues if you like but at the end of the day THY has the demand but VERY LIMITED SUPPLY...
Thirdly have u ever made a research how many foreign pilot works for lufthansa i mean non german or the same thing for BA or AF as well and compare all the figures with TK.I'm sure that u will see the difference after u searched or For example do you know that TK wants a university degree from turkish pilots but not from foreigners...Just get much more info guys..If ur aim is really being a part of aviation here is the chance. U can use it.
With all due respects and i dont mean to offend you but a degree is worth as much as the paper it is printed on.. The degree will only teach you a discipline not a skill.. a skill is developed over time with experience and having the right mentality to learn. when i say this i know the education system here in Turkey i even done the equivalency for MY DEGREE from a RESPECTED university. This degree nonsense was put in place because of the Turkish educational systems shortcomings not not because it made one a better aviator or manager... nor does memorising answers to quesations make you more inteligent either
Before making a criticize think twice and consider what kinda opportunities u have.l
may be look at it from the other perspective if you didnt have expats would THY continue to grow as much..it could be that were are aiding in employing more locals crew that you think??
as for the language barrier we understand English is not your native language nor is most of Europe Asia or Latin America.. there are problems from each region and bound to be questionable level 6 certificates having g said this from a PROFESSIONAL standpoint and a SAFETY one as well.. we are professionals and THE common Language in Aviation is English. There as some that can communicated at a very good level of English and some lets say confuse them selves when they just say hello... nevertheless it wouldn't matter if your Chuck Yeager and know how to fly with sniper skills if you don't understand whats going on around you... its the fundamentals of S.A CRM Derision Making
H.T may be of Turkish Origin but he was Raised in Australia until his mid 20's mate ....his whole mentality and way of thinking exhibited more Aussie -western traits when he first came thus His native language is English and Not Turkish.. rule of primacy you can cover a cake with fondon and icing but at the end of the day the cake is whats inside .. btw the FO was educated in USA
my advice if you want to know or figure out all this hype here... come with an open mind and sit down with a few of us over a beer and talk... simple as that...
(my apologies for the spelling and grammar after a long day i couldnt find the tenacity to proof read the above )