Turboprop transition to jet?
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i am happy, but my plane is going to die in less than 5 years, and flying in summer with thunderstorms around at fl180 is not the most enjoyable time. cat 1, no a/P most times, bad manteinance.
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Orichetti,
I am in your same boat (???) except that I am slightly luckier with the type, mine being ultra-popular. As a matter of fact I have come to the point where I am sought by operator that surf the web and read my profile in the likes of LinkeIn. However I am experiencing your same syndrome, stuck on type, n jet time and age (at least for the airlines) not on my side.
What can I suggest? Well, I'll second those who say network like nuts. That's how I got my first (cursed) job when I was just a FI with 500hrs of SEP. If it happened once then it may happen again. I keep promising myself next move will be upwards and not sideways but then reality kicks in. Corporate is probably the only way to go for me, not sure whether it applies to you as well but worth considering, IMHO. Airline flying is OK in a legacy or a well-structured LoCo but I wouldn't join ANYONE just to fly an A320. It has to be "survivable" financially too.
I'd rather not comment on those who take the "...P2F path to avoid this misery..." because it would drag this OT but it's really frustrating to read those words.
Best luck with you search
I am in your same boat (???) except that I am slightly luckier with the type, mine being ultra-popular. As a matter of fact I have come to the point where I am sought by operator that surf the web and read my profile in the likes of LinkeIn. However I am experiencing your same syndrome, stuck on type, n jet time and age (at least for the airlines) not on my side.
What can I suggest? Well, I'll second those who say network like nuts. That's how I got my first (cursed) job when I was just a FI with 500hrs of SEP. If it happened once then it may happen again. I keep promising myself next move will be upwards and not sideways but then reality kicks in. Corporate is probably the only way to go for me, not sure whether it applies to you as well but worth considering, IMHO. Airline flying is OK in a legacy or a well-structured LoCo but I wouldn't join ANYONE just to fly an A320. It has to be "survivable" financially too.
I'd rather not comment on those who take the "...P2F path to avoid this misery..." because it would drag this OT but it's really frustrating to read those words.
Best luck with you search
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Jet time?
Load of rubbish that companies get excited about "jet time". A jet is a type of power plant, not an aircraft in spite of top gun thinking. Some get excited about wide body time.
A turbo fan is easier to operate than a turbo prop this day and age. Yes the older turbo jet engine had to be managed with a little more planning with regards to spool up etc. Yes the speeds are a little higher but relative. Think "time to station", as a priority. Speed is just a number.
To me, who has operated light, medium and heavy turbo jet powered aircraft, a turbo prop experienced person has done the apprenticeship and very employable, over a sausage factory graduate any day of the week. Air experience is what it is all about in my view. You can't gain experience sitting in a class room.
As for swept wing, not a problem.
You can teach a monkey to ride a bike but you may have trouble getting it to read road signs.
Load of rubbish that companies get excited about "jet time". A jet is a type of power plant, not an aircraft in spite of top gun thinking. Some get excited about wide body time.
A turbo fan is easier to operate than a turbo prop this day and age. Yes the older turbo jet engine had to be managed with a little more planning with regards to spool up etc. Yes the speeds are a little higher but relative. Think "time to station", as a priority. Speed is just a number.
To me, who has operated light, medium and heavy turbo jet powered aircraft, a turbo prop experienced person has done the apprenticeship and very employable, over a sausage factory graduate any day of the week. Air experience is what it is all about in my view. You can't gain experience sitting in a class room.
As for swept wing, not a problem.
You can teach a monkey to ride a bike but you may have trouble getting it to read road signs.
Last edited by Sop_Monkey; 3rd Apr 2015 at 08:29.
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SM...
You are trying to knock down an oped door with me, mate. Unfortunately neither you or I are sitting in any hiring board so...
I had a shot at a CL605-job a while ago in LTN. The CP was a Yank and he said he would had literally kidnapped a guy like me from is SPA seat. Unfortunately the principal picked someone in Nice on the basis that...he was rated.
Game over
You are trying to knock down an oped door with me, mate. Unfortunately neither you or I are sitting in any hiring board so...
I had a shot at a CL605-job a while ago in LTN. The CP was a Yank and he said he would had literally kidnapped a guy like me from is SPA seat. Unfortunately the principal picked someone in Nice on the basis that...he was rated.
Game over
Journey Man,
"With the deepest of respect this warrants, your comments seem to be made with the pithy abandon of someone whose never experienced those wonderful, 'glamorous' opportunities."
Then all is not what it seems then Journey Man.
From Gliders to Ultralights to a mustering business to Ag to floats to international survey and now Aeromed. All of which has afforded me 3 investment properties a shed full of motorcycles and a rather nice fishing rod. But more importantly it has given me a contented disposition and happiness. It matters not a hoot that I may never monitor a shiny fat jets path along a predetermined route and I cannot help but feel if more pilots were a little more ambivalent toward a jet job then those companies might just need to lift their game regarding employee's.
However your last point regarding the OP is valid, my bliss won't help his transition, but it might just help to foster a frame of mind that accepts the present scenario with happiness. After all it maybe that he never transitions to a jet and spends the rest of his flying career in a TP. I hate to see pilots become miserable when upward progression stalls, nothing good comes from disgruntled or depressed pilots.
PS. I don't lend my tools.
Best of luck ORICHETTI
"With the deepest of respect this warrants, your comments seem to be made with the pithy abandon of someone whose never experienced those wonderful, 'glamorous' opportunities."
Then all is not what it seems then Journey Man.
From Gliders to Ultralights to a mustering business to Ag to floats to international survey and now Aeromed. All of which has afforded me 3 investment properties a shed full of motorcycles and a rather nice fishing rod. But more importantly it has given me a contented disposition and happiness. It matters not a hoot that I may never monitor a shiny fat jets path along a predetermined route and I cannot help but feel if more pilots were a little more ambivalent toward a jet job then those companies might just need to lift their game regarding employee's.
However your last point regarding the OP is valid, my bliss won't help his transition, but it might just help to foster a frame of mind that accepts the present scenario with happiness. After all it maybe that he never transitions to a jet and spends the rest of his flying career in a TP. I hate to see pilots become miserable when upward progression stalls, nothing good comes from disgruntled or depressed pilots.
PS. I don't lend my tools.
Best of luck ORICHETTI
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Flybe
OP i don't know where you are based but have you tried Flybe? We are crying out for crews as so many are departing to Jet2, BA etc and I'm flying close to 100 hrs in the coming months. Every person on my course was an experienced pilot and with some positive news expected on Tuesday it could be the right move for you. Expect 30K with no type rating costs as an initial FO and 2 - 3 years on a command with your experience depending on base in the current climate, not bad in this day and age
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This is whats happen when you listen to these old school pilot..
Do instructing, then air taxi, then turbo prob, then jet..DONT PAY FOR TYPE RATING, I never did...Everyone agrees, yeah yeah, group hug, then this happens, you get stuck! things have changed since 1970
Do instructing, then air taxi, then turbo prob, then jet..DONT PAY FOR TYPE RATING, I never did...Everyone agrees, yeah yeah, group hug, then this happens, you get stuck! things have changed since 1970
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This is whats happen when you listen to these old school pilot..
Do instructing, then air taxi, then turbo prob, then jet..DONT PAY FOR TYPE RATING, I never did...Everyone agrees, yeah yeah, group hug, then this happens, you get stuck!
Do instructing, then air taxi, then turbo prob, then jet..DONT PAY FOR TYPE RATING, I never did...Everyone agrees, yeah yeah, group hug, then this happens, you get stuck!
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If you are one of the ones which gives this old advise to new starters then yes..you people hate change, but aviation has changed so we must to. Air taxi, then turbo prob, then jet no longer works..
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I payed less than 35 k for my atpl, and never payed for a type rating. so for now i am happy of the way i did everything.
Really i began loading bags on a old md 80´s, checkin agent, dipatcher, and a lot more bad payed jobs on the airport..so i did all the career from the begining. maybe i need to change to a heavy TP and then finally a jet. i am sure the old way of wining experience is still valid.
Really i began loading bags on a old md 80´s, checkin agent, dipatcher, and a lot more bad payed jobs on the airport..so i did all the career from the begining. maybe i need to change to a heavy TP and then finally a jet. i am sure the old way of wining experience is still valid.
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Not in the UK it's not. You get stuck between the letters TP and jet. The system is geared up now so someone well financed and capable of passing paperwork can be placed as a temporary cheap to pay - does the same job- pilot. Sorry, "cadet" then after a few hard years they get standard wack. Albeit an eroded wack. Turboprop is almost a separate cottage industry career path with a definite ceiling in the UK
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I disagree. In the UK things are moving once again and the system is un-clogging at a rate of knots as the retirement profile returns to normal.
Everyone is moving up a level. Loads of people in my old TP outfit have or are about to move on... Norwegian, Cathay, BA, Flybe, Wizz, Garuda... that's just off the top of my head.
But we all have >10t time and to go back to the OP, I think that is his immediate issue to moving on, not the market right at this moment imo.
Everyone is moving up a level. Loads of people in my old TP outfit have or are about to move on... Norwegian, Cathay, BA, Flybe, Wizz, Garuda... that's just off the top of my head.
But we all have >10t time and to go back to the OP, I think that is his immediate issue to moving on, not the market right at this moment imo.
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Things are moving
I have to agree with Wodka, from what I can see the attitude seems to have changed to ' only cadets' to 'maybe a mix is better'. OP i went from flying a DHC6 onto the Q400 and have friends in the last year who have gone from the same up onto Saabs and Falcons, and the Falcon guys earn a hell of a lot more than your average Airline captains. Its not quite the meteoric rise of an Easyjet cadet but hell its about the journey not the destination, you have plenty of time ahead of you to fly jets, take the little steps first if you can. For those who have applied to Flybe but heard nothing I would urge you to follow it up as i have seen it work for others. Best of luck but be forewarned the handy days are over, expect to fly 800 hrs a year minimum and plenty of 6 sector days
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I also started flying late 90's never paid for a rating, and trained modular. Having also been a TP captain I have sat next to cadets who bitch about pay and conditions. I love watching there faces when I point out they caused the problem, and as they have been willing to pay for everything to get ahead screw everyone else! The like of CTC are cancer in my opinion, it's a way of protecting jobs for the rich kids and keep the bean counters happy! It's so sad passionate aviators are effectively barred from the industry as the cannot afford a bull**** cadet course!
Be careful what you wish for, I enjoyed TP flying now a 320 driver, and in all honesty it's sooooooo boring! If I got the same salary to fly a Cessna I would quit today!
Be careful what you wish for, I enjoyed TP flying now a 320 driver, and in all honesty it's sooooooo boring! If I got the same salary to fly a Cessna I would quit today!
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The whole thing is a disaster.
I went flying school - citation - 146 -757-787.
I was lucky, that sort of progression is hard to find.
Networking, got me, nowhere at all. I don't believe it's much use. Do airline HR people hang out in pubs waiting for desperate pilots to come chat them up.
I think the UK situation fell apart, when a lot of the small TP operators disappeared and conversely the larger charter firms amalgamated or changed their policies on giving 3 yr bonds to new guys.
I wish you luck in your search.
I went flying school - citation - 146 -757-787.
I was lucky, that sort of progression is hard to find.
Networking, got me, nowhere at all. I don't believe it's much use. Do airline HR people hang out in pubs waiting for desperate pilots to come chat them up.
I think the UK situation fell apart, when a lot of the small TP operators disappeared and conversely the larger charter firms amalgamated or changed their policies on giving 3 yr bonds to new guys.
I wish you luck in your search.
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I'm a heavy prop, glass cockpit, first officer. First job after flying school and I've been doing this for 4 years now.
I know I don't have any reason to complain, good base (in my home country), good roster (2on 1 off), good money(three times what WizzAir offered me) and great colleages (all of them flown only props all their life).
But still, something is bothering me, there is no career advancement and for a mid 20's guy this is killing me.
I know that basicly every other job would be a step back in terms&conditions but I still send out CV's because I want to keep on "advancing" my career and the only way to advance right now is to get jet hours. I see all my old flying school buddies who flown boeings for 3 years getting jobs in Turkey and in the desert. Again; I know I shouldn't complain but I'm honest and say that jealousy is something we all have from time to time, even though I'm home a lot, have a great motorcycle to work on and still have money left for food.
It's just that there is no motivation, no growth in my career so I've been applying everywhere for over a year now.... and never got anything back, including companies like FlyBe who, apperently are begging pilots to join them.
If you talk to anybody and explain them; What do you think creates experience, a 5 hour flight staring at a screen or 5 landings and take off's in 5 hours in icing, turbulence and all the crap you can find around FL160? You can all guess what they will say.
Unfortunately the HR department doesn't see it this way. I don't see this changing and I don't blame them for thinking like this, it's just the way it is for the TP guys.
Corporate is the way to go some of you say, but is it not so that for every corporate jet vacancy they either want a type rating or jet hours? Networking is fast becoming a thing of the past, or maybe it is where I live.
I just keep on trucking and try to find fulfillment in other things. I know in the near future I won't get it from my career.
I know I don't have any reason to complain, good base (in my home country), good roster (2on 1 off), good money(three times what WizzAir offered me) and great colleages (all of them flown only props all their life).
But still, something is bothering me, there is no career advancement and for a mid 20's guy this is killing me.
I know that basicly every other job would be a step back in terms&conditions but I still send out CV's because I want to keep on "advancing" my career and the only way to advance right now is to get jet hours. I see all my old flying school buddies who flown boeings for 3 years getting jobs in Turkey and in the desert. Again; I know I shouldn't complain but I'm honest and say that jealousy is something we all have from time to time, even though I'm home a lot, have a great motorcycle to work on and still have money left for food.
It's just that there is no motivation, no growth in my career so I've been applying everywhere for over a year now.... and never got anything back, including companies like FlyBe who, apperently are begging pilots to join them.
If you talk to anybody and explain them; What do you think creates experience, a 5 hour flight staring at a screen or 5 landings and take off's in 5 hours in icing, turbulence and all the crap you can find around FL160? You can all guess what they will say.
Unfortunately the HR department doesn't see it this way. I don't see this changing and I don't blame them for thinking like this, it's just the way it is for the TP guys.
Corporate is the way to go some of you say, but is it not so that for every corporate jet vacancy they either want a type rating or jet hours? Networking is fast becoming a thing of the past, or maybe it is where I live.
I just keep on trucking and try to find fulfillment in other things. I know in the near future I won't get it from my career.
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Harry seaside
If you talk to anybody and explain them; What do you think creates experience, a 5 hour flight staring at a screen or 5 landings and take off's in 5 hours in icing, turbulence and all the crap you can find around FL160? You can all guess what they will say.
I hope you know that 5 hours on jet isnt only about staring at screens. The longer haul you do the more managing you do. As in managing the whole flight, be it pax issues, crew issues, tech issues etc. the more pax you carry also increases the chances of medical, security etc problems. As an airline pilot, take off landing aint not the only applicable experience. Try not to see this from you own TP experience only. Till then keep learning, theres lots more above FL160 then you know now.
If you talk to anybody and explain them; What do you think creates experience, a 5 hour flight staring at a screen or 5 landings and take off's in 5 hours in icing, turbulence and all the crap you can find around FL160? You can all guess what they will say.
I hope you know that 5 hours on jet isnt only about staring at screens. The longer haul you do the more managing you do. As in managing the whole flight, be it pax issues, crew issues, tech issues etc. the more pax you carry also increases the chances of medical, security etc problems. As an airline pilot, take off landing aint not the only applicable experience. Try not to see this from you own TP experience only. Till then keep learning, theres lots more above FL160 then you know now.