Norwegian B787 - LGW based
Join Date: Nov 2015
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Received a few days ago, all Gross Payments, UK Gatwick base:
➢Captains: Salary £7,470.
➢Relief Captains: Salary £5,810.
➢First Officers: Salary £4,150.
➢Fixed per diem: £830
Thats it except for ~£50 phone allowance.
total pay is same as easy-jet basic, forSkipper anyway. Not highly competitive if you are currently employed in europe.
The nitty gritty details and details of "how you will be expected to work to max EASA duty hours "
of the contract i cannot disclose so sugest you apply !
Probably ok jobin 5 years time .with rostering sorted. Contract suits none UK residency.
➢Captains: Salary £7,470.
➢Relief Captains: Salary £5,810.
➢First Officers: Salary £4,150.
➢Fixed per diem: £830
Thats it except for ~£50 phone allowance.
total pay is same as easy-jet basic, forSkipper anyway. Not highly competitive if you are currently employed in europe.
The nitty gritty details and details of "how you will be expected to work to max EASA duty hours "
of the contract i cannot disclose so sugest you apply !
Probably ok jobin 5 years time .with rostering sorted. Contract suits none UK residency.
Join Date: Nov 2010
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“It doesn’t look so bad” ………….
Beginning in late 2012 Norwegian began its journey of broken promises to contract pilots. The first, was to unilaterally abolish the promised on/off rotation. Many later expressed regret at leaving the rock solid 5/4 at Ryanair, and some returned. The second, was the promise of direct (CORE) employment.
In this instance, CORE refers to the directly employed Scandinavian pilots. Their privileges are the government employment laws, labor rights and labor principles workers are guaranteed directly with their employer - the entity controlling your working life. These virtues are not “banal” or merely “interests” to be granted at the whim of management. Unfortunately, they can be circumvented by unprincipled organizations.
There are no laws applicable to airline expansion preventing additional crew being directly employed by the airline. Agency sourced crew, or direct employment circumvention, allows Norwegian to gain a huge competitive advantage over their rivals, but at the severe cost to the workers of the aforementioned employment laws, labor rights and labor principles with their effective employer – Norwegian (such a scheme does not comply with the EU US Open Skies Agreement, therefore a US permit cannot be issued).
Union bullying was mentioned on another thread. There is no bullying by the union at Norwegian. On the contrary, it is the upper echelons within the Fornebue rats nest who seek to masterfully hammer home their anti-union and selected crew bullying tactics. This, while hypocritically soliciting a just culture open-door policy, peppered with disingenuous comments of “good union relations” from a paid mouthpiece (DN News Aug 7, 2015), and, after dismantling an airline into three divisions during a lawful union strike!
However, bullying is not exclusive to Norwegian and they appear to have found a willing and proficient partner in OSM.
Intimidation of the workforce:
DN News, Mar 4, 2015
“Pilots are threatened with losing their jobs if they refuse to transition to OSM”
DN News, Dec 13, 2012
"Within Norwegian threats of reprisals against crew being used in daily operations"
Nettavisen News, July 10, 2013
"English [Norwegian] intimidates officers and employees from expressing themselves"
DN News, Nov 14, 2013
"None of them [agency crew] want to come forward for fear of their future with Norwegian"
E24 News, Jan 26, 2015
"Threatened pilots to sign a new contract using aggressive tactics and threats to revoke contracts if pilots did not sign"
Intimidation of selected crew:
Dagbladet News, March 3, 2015
"Feeling exposed to a witch hunt from Kjos" - “Dream job was a nightmare” [sacked cabin crew]
DN News, Dec 4, 2015
"It emerged very strong testimony in court which in my opinion very damaging to confidence in the management of the company and created the basis for settlement. A continuation of what we heard on Tuesday would have been so devastating for Norwegian short and long term that the company had no choice but to arrive at settlement" [the out of court settlement of a sacked Safety Officer]
There are many other reports in the Scandinavian media of Norwegian’s misguided idea of “labor relations”. No doubt, Scandinavians in particular find the abhorrent treatment of workers by Norwegian to be grossly offensive to the region’s reputation for quality of working life. It is no wonder that “Half of Norwegian’s pilots want to quit” and “75% of pilots surveyed would not recommend Norwegian as an employer” - DN News, Sep 26, 2015.
Norwegian has turned hypocrisy into an art form and has the affront to declare on its website:
“We place great importance on ensuring compliance with employees’ basic human rights as outlined in the International Labor Organization’s core conventions”
The Norwegian regime has previously summarily dismissed agency pilots and cabin crew without cause or permitting individuals to respond to any allegations made against them - a blatant violation of ILO core conventions and further testament to Norwegian’s insincerity toward meaningful labor relations. As an agency pilot, you have no employment law, labor rights nor labor principles directly with Norwegian - the entity controlling your working life.
In consideration of all above, you may understand why CEO Bjorn Kjos smiles with apparent blissful satisfaction when photographed standing closely behind Norwegian crew.
Beginning in late 2012 Norwegian began its journey of broken promises to contract pilots. The first, was to unilaterally abolish the promised on/off rotation. Many later expressed regret at leaving the rock solid 5/4 at Ryanair, and some returned. The second, was the promise of direct (CORE) employment.
In this instance, CORE refers to the directly employed Scandinavian pilots. Their privileges are the government employment laws, labor rights and labor principles workers are guaranteed directly with their employer - the entity controlling your working life. These virtues are not “banal” or merely “interests” to be granted at the whim of management. Unfortunately, they can be circumvented by unprincipled organizations.
There are no laws applicable to airline expansion preventing additional crew being directly employed by the airline. Agency sourced crew, or direct employment circumvention, allows Norwegian to gain a huge competitive advantage over their rivals, but at the severe cost to the workers of the aforementioned employment laws, labor rights and labor principles with their effective employer – Norwegian (such a scheme does not comply with the EU US Open Skies Agreement, therefore a US permit cannot be issued).
Union bullying was mentioned on another thread. There is no bullying by the union at Norwegian. On the contrary, it is the upper echelons within the Fornebue rats nest who seek to masterfully hammer home their anti-union and selected crew bullying tactics. This, while hypocritically soliciting a just culture open-door policy, peppered with disingenuous comments of “good union relations” from a paid mouthpiece (DN News Aug 7, 2015), and, after dismantling an airline into three divisions during a lawful union strike!
However, bullying is not exclusive to Norwegian and they appear to have found a willing and proficient partner in OSM.
Intimidation of the workforce:
DN News, Mar 4, 2015
“Pilots are threatened with losing their jobs if they refuse to transition to OSM”
DN News, Dec 13, 2012
"Within Norwegian threats of reprisals against crew being used in daily operations"
Nettavisen News, July 10, 2013
"English [Norwegian] intimidates officers and employees from expressing themselves"
DN News, Nov 14, 2013
"None of them [agency crew] want to come forward for fear of their future with Norwegian"
E24 News, Jan 26, 2015
"Threatened pilots to sign a new contract using aggressive tactics and threats to revoke contracts if pilots did not sign"
Intimidation of selected crew:
Dagbladet News, March 3, 2015
"Feeling exposed to a witch hunt from Kjos" - “Dream job was a nightmare” [sacked cabin crew]
DN News, Dec 4, 2015
"It emerged very strong testimony in court which in my opinion very damaging to confidence in the management of the company and created the basis for settlement. A continuation of what we heard on Tuesday would have been so devastating for Norwegian short and long term that the company had no choice but to arrive at settlement" [the out of court settlement of a sacked Safety Officer]
There are many other reports in the Scandinavian media of Norwegian’s misguided idea of “labor relations”. No doubt, Scandinavians in particular find the abhorrent treatment of workers by Norwegian to be grossly offensive to the region’s reputation for quality of working life. It is no wonder that “Half of Norwegian’s pilots want to quit” and “75% of pilots surveyed would not recommend Norwegian as an employer” - DN News, Sep 26, 2015.
Norwegian has turned hypocrisy into an art form and has the affront to declare on its website:
“We place great importance on ensuring compliance with employees’ basic human rights as outlined in the International Labor Organization’s core conventions”
The Norwegian regime has previously summarily dismissed agency pilots and cabin crew without cause or permitting individuals to respond to any allegations made against them - a blatant violation of ILO core conventions and further testament to Norwegian’s insincerity toward meaningful labor relations. As an agency pilot, you have no employment law, labor rights nor labor principles directly with Norwegian - the entity controlling your working life.
In consideration of all above, you may understand why CEO Bjorn Kjos smiles with apparent blissful satisfaction when photographed standing closely behind Norwegian crew.
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Using a tax calculator it's approx 35% deduction from those figures paying tax and national insurance.
I am interested, I have 8000hrs short haul Boeing experience,and with 20+ years left in this game I'm looking for something a bit different, would anyone care to share a roster? Or at least number of trips per month,days off etc?
Also time from Relief captain to full captain, I have 4700 hrs pic on Boeing,I've heard anything from 6mths to......whatever!
In general,ignoring some of the comments on here,is it a good/easy life?
Cheers.
I am interested, I have 8000hrs short haul Boeing experience,and with 20+ years left in this game I'm looking for something a bit different, would anyone care to share a roster? Or at least number of trips per month,days off etc?
Also time from Relief captain to full captain, I have 4700 hrs pic on Boeing,I've heard anything from 6mths to......whatever!
In general,ignoring some of the comments on here,is it a good/easy life?
Cheers.
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I'm in pretty much the same position, local to my base, home every night ,but I cant see myself doing 4 sectors every day for the next 20 odd years,retiring without having tried something different would be a big regret. A small pay cut for a more relaxed life........
I believe you don't actually pay anyone the 30k,I understand it's just held in escrow/bank guarantee.
And it's only 3 years,if I don't like it, I'll leave! (But with a few 787/777 pic hours...)
I believe you don't actually pay anyone the 30k,I understand it's just held in escrow/bank guarantee.
And it's only 3 years,if I don't like it, I'll leave! (But with a few 787/777 pic hours...)
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Join Date: May 2010
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Quote: "I believe you don't actually pay anyone the 30k,I understand it's just held in escrow/bank guarantee. "
When I was looking into it last year, I approached most of the high st banks about providing a bank guarantee. I got replies from "no, dont do that sort of thing" to a look of total incomprehension.
So I would have had to put up the 30k. That is what has happened with friends and former colleagues who have joined.
The money was to be held in Rishworths account in NZ.
I also asked if I would get my bond back if I was made redundant through no fault of my own within the bonding period. Eg bankruptcy, base closure etc, and was told no, because I have a marketable rating. I thought this was very unfair. I could understand it if I left of my own accord within the bond period, but not if it was out of my control.
Kika
When I was looking into it last year, I approached most of the high st banks about providing a bank guarantee. I got replies from "no, dont do that sort of thing" to a look of total incomprehension.
So I would have had to put up the 30k. That is what has happened with friends and former colleagues who have joined.
The money was to be held in Rishworths account in NZ.
I also asked if I would get my bond back if I was made redundant through no fault of my own within the bonding period. Eg bankruptcy, base closure etc, and was told no, because I have a marketable rating. I thought this was very unfair. I could understand it if I left of my own accord within the bond period, but not if it was out of my control.
Kika
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It isn't a marketable rating unless you want to fly in Vietnam, which is one of the few places in the world where you are required to have a 777/787 rating before applying. Almost everyone else will rate you at their expense pending a paper bond.
Master Baiter
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It all boils down to the fact is that it's a really friendly airline. They want to do the right thing. However, the guys at the top down are out to screw you into the ground.
If you have a 777 rating from the ME, desperate to come home then NAS doesn't seem bad. However look at the Gatwick base that isn't a base (It may be when they have six 787s there on G reg) plus the amount of days away you are. It's a pants deal.
You only need to see how many FOs have jumped ship to VS and experienced TRIs in dispute with the new contract AND the management still not getting it.
If you have a 777 rating from the ME, desperate to come home then NAS doesn't seem bad. However look at the Gatwick base that isn't a base (It may be when they have six 787s there on G reg) plus the amount of days away you are. It's a pants deal.
You only need to see how many FOs have jumped ship to VS and experienced TRIs in dispute with the new contract AND the management still not getting it.
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Rishworth sample roster
Hi, if you want to see a sample roster just email Rishworth.
Management are snooping around on forums and chat apps at the moment and as we're only contractors I don't think anyone is putting too much information out sadly.
It's a nice airline, training more than chopping but the rostering is diabolical.
Management are snooping around on forums and chat apps at the moment and as we're only contractors I don't think anyone is putting too much information out sadly.
It's a nice airline, training more than chopping but the rostering is diabolical.
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Cheers nearly man,
I received some info from rishworth, is the allowance taxed the same as the salary or is it paid separately under a different tax rate?
I know it's been asked to death on here already,but realistically what would be the time from relief to full captain, best case/worst case?
It's going to be pretty tough on that salary for a few years! About a £1700 net per month drop from my current lot !!!
I received some info from rishworth, is the allowance taxed the same as the salary or is it paid separately under a different tax rate?
I know it's been asked to death on here already,but realistically what would be the time from relief to full captain, best case/worst case?
It's going to be pretty tough on that salary for a few years! About a £1700 net per month drop from my current lot !!!
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The info I received from Rishworth, I have 7000+ hrs/4500 pic on Boeing, but still go in as relief captain due to no wide body time, the gross salary is £5810 + £830 allowance = £6640 gross , bang that into UK tax calculator = £4461.68 NET. In my current lot I NET average £5617 per month PLUS company pension contribution of around £550 ( matched by me but taken out before tax and the above net figures)
So around £1700 less a month, plus the prospect of banging £30k against my house!
I wonder how many UK based guys are willing to jump at these figures.
So around £1700 less a month, plus the prospect of banging £30k against my house!
I wonder how many UK based guys are willing to jump at these figures.
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The stated recruitment aim was to attract those near retirement, house paid off, etc. But seeing as the recruitment seems to be never ending I'm guessing that supply is/was limited. If more money is needed to attract a younger workforce, then I'm guessing they would need to up the pay for the existing workforce. Something that will probably and sensibly be resisted for as long as possible until it becomes impossible to crew the aircraft. My guess, and theirs, is that they will be able to attract enough crew on the current terms eventually.
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“..they will be able to attract enough crew on the current terms….”
But there remains the issue of Norwegian’s treatment of its workforce:-
“Management are snooping around on forums and chat apps at the moment and as we're only contractors, I don't think anyone is putting too much information out…..”
Nothing shatters the tranquility of a group, creates a fear culture and discourages others from joining, more than a witch-hunt by those having total control over others. It is a matter of record that Norwegian’s have excelled at witch-hunting.
Previously, selected individuals were hauled before an inquisition, suspended, and terminated without representation. Divided, disorganized and powerless colleagues could only witness the shameful treatment (much like today).
http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/03/03/n...kjos/37978024/
A post on another thread is applicable to Norwegian’s unsavory labor practices:-
“I know of a number of politicians who are completely uninterested in their constituent's situation within the industry. Taking action and forcing change is a big challenge, but they were not even entertaining sympathy for the pilots in question”
However, US politicians are very interested and have met the challenge by taking positive action against Norwegian’s unprincipled labor schemes:-
http://files.cwa-union.org/national/...41204-foxx.pdf
Today, E24 Norway News reports that after two years of opposition to their circumvention labor schemes, Norwegian is still waiting approval from the DoT for a US permit:-
Kjos gir ikke opp planene: Har søkt ny USA-lisens med nytt selskap i Storbritannia - Norwegian Air Shuttle - Børs og Finans - E24
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Direct Bondi,
I don't disagree with you at all, but let's not kid ourselves that the US airlines opposing Norwegian's US DoT application care about the Pilots and Cabin Crew. They're only interested in protecting their Transatlantic monopoly. It's all about the Green!
I don't disagree with you at all, but let's not kid ourselves that the US airlines opposing Norwegian's US DoT application care about the Pilots and Cabin Crew. They're only interested in protecting their Transatlantic monopoly. It's all about the Green!
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Bondi, 69 of your 93 posts are Negativity directed at NAS
You clearly have an axe to grind and it must be cpvery sharp now.
However I'm sure those coming on here looking for the real T&Cs are getting fed up with it.
You must have reached bondi now, please go and play in the sun
You clearly have an axe to grind and it must be cpvery sharp now.
However I'm sure those coming on here looking for the real T&Cs are getting fed up with it.
You must have reached bondi now, please go and play in the sun