Brookfield Aviation.

[tubby linton]

Those of you under contract with Brookfield Aviation may find the location of their headquarters rather surprising.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...cheaper-pilots

[Dan Winterland]

British law for British based pilots? Anyone suffering these contracts may do well to look at the case of Crofts vs VETA (The UK shell company of Cathay Pacific in the UK). But beware, the Crown decided that UK based CX pilots were liable for UK Tax and NI.

http://www.cathaypilotsunion.org/Crofts/UKET.htm

[Roti Canai]

I heard they have another address in the Caribbean. I looked at some of the
B AV offer's and spoke to a guy I know on contract in SE Asia, They don't sound very good so I did not go ahead.

[inuit32]

Be careful with Brookfield aviation. Don't thrust them. I was asked to pay my plane ticket for a simulator check, they reassured me that I will get reimbursed immediately after the assessment. It never happen, their only comment was, we are really sorry.

I hope they will go down.

[anson harris]

Don't thrust them

I'd really love to thrust them though?

[anson harris]

Childish jokes aside - anybody that has signed a Brookfield contract since, err, forever, will be aware that they are based in the UK.

[piratepete]

BROOKFIELD.
Im on a second 12 month contract with them.Pay is on time, no issues, very very professional IMHO, Peter.

[RAT 5]

PP: out of curiosity what type of contract were you on? Was it for an EU based operation? Did you need to construct a convoluted Ltd. Co. in a foreign country? Where are you living and where is you airline based? These are relevant questions to understand your answer in relation to the topic.

[Jwscud]

I see from the RPG that anyone who has ever been based in Germany under a BRK contract for Ryanair is very likely to be investigated for the criminal offence of tax fraud. That is in addition to massive bills (up to €1500/month before interest and penalties) for unpaid social insurance.

Glad I'm out of there.

[OhNoCB]

Jwscud, whilst appreciating that this thread is about BRK I feel it should also be mentioned the the German authorities are investigating anyone that has worked in Germany on a BRK or McGinley contract for any period of time at all in the last ~10 years including those that have since left. These pilots are being accused of social tax fraud and if monies due are over a certain amount this can result in an automatic 6 year prison sentence.

Again, I appreciate that this thread is about BRK specifically but thought the above worth mentioning in case anyone was reading from either agency who hasn't received this info.

[ExDubai]

@OhNoCB
Forget about the 6 year prison, that will never happen. The individual amount isn't high enough. But it will be an expensive lesson for those pilots.

[Phileas Fogg]

In one of my previous lives I worked for several years in recruitment and, besides working with several other operators, had flight crew on contract with RYR.

These days I'm a self-employed hotelier, my years in recruitment are a distant memory, my brain cells aren't what they were so I can't recall the UK tax legislation reference, the one bought in to particularly address self-employed IT workers, but I recall the definition of a self-employed person, despite being on contract with one or more than one companies, being that they must work from different locations and not from just one location.

OK flight crew visit maybe two, three or more locations each day of their flying duties but that isn't the point, it is where they report for duty that counts and, as I recall, RYR wouldn't appoint them a fixed base, they would 'float' between bases (because RYR were too tight to pay for crew positioning, hotac etc.) and one month may be working from Germany, another month from UK, another month from Italy etc. etc. etc.

Reading regarding this German investigation, unless the Germans can get hold of the individuals duty rosters, crew records or similar I don't see how they may determine if an individual was working from a fixed base in Germany.

One previous airline I worked for had an aircraft on wet lease with Lufthansa Cityline where the crews would position from/to UK for a week's work in Germany at a time, these crew members were operating short hauls out/in of Germany much the same as many RYR flight crew are but those crew were never expected to pay tax/SS in Germany, they were paying it in UK.

Even if the German authorities decide that Captains X, Y & Z owe them X amount in tax/SS are (Brexit) UK going to start extraditing it's nationals to Germany where said individuals may argue that they were also working from other countries such as UK and Italy and "What gives Germany the right to take tax/SS due to UK and Italy?", I mean they could make any investigation so complicated I would suggest that the German equivalent of the Crown Prosecution Service would dictate "Forget it, it's going to cost too much in public funds to continue pursuing it".

I don't think the referred to individuals have too much to worry about!

[172_driver]

K flight crew visit maybe two, three or more locations each day of their flying duties but that isn't the point, it is where they report for duty that counts and, as I recall, RYR wouldn't appoint them a fixed base, they would 'float' between bases (because RYR were too tight to pay for crew positioning, hotac etc.) and one month may be working from Germany, another month from UK, another month from Italy etc. etc. etc.

When I started I recieved a letter from Brookfield with an assigned base. 95 % of my flying was done out of there. There's little doubt as to where I was based. There used to be a little group of pilots known as 'floaters' which would fit your description better and without an assigned base. That changed a few years ago. Perhaps after pressure from EASA (or their extended arm, the IAA) about the little piece of legislation 'every crew member shall have an assigned base'. Following the change they were rostered as deadheading out of their new assigned base (likely the one closest to where they're living) for flying duties in another base.

[ExDubai]

@Phileas Fogg. You didn't get the case. It's all about "bogus self employment". If you are based in Germany and you live there, you have to pay your tax in Germany. A independent contractor isn't obliged to pay certain social security taxes. So if the court decides that those pilots are not self employed, it will get nasty for them (and BRK). And yes, they should be worried, because we are not talking about "peanuts"

[Phileas Fogg]

Following the change they were rostered as deadheading out of their new assigned base (likely the one closest to where they're living) for flying duties in another base.

So if they lived in Bishops Horrible their assigned base would be STN (England & Wales), if they lived in Leiden then AMS (Netherlands), Paris then whatever ****e airfield RYR call Paris (France) etc., even if all of these were positioning to/from Germany to work from there their tax/SS would fall payable in England & Wales, Netherlands, France etc. ... Wouldn't it?

[Phileas Fogg]

@Phileas Fogg. You didn't get the case. It's all about "bogus self employment". If you are based in Germany and you live there, you have to pay your tax in Germany. A independent contractor isn't obliged to pay certain social security taxes. So if the court decides that those pilots are not self employed, it will get nasty for them (and BRK). And yes, they should be worried, because we are not talking about "peanuts"

DXB,

I worked with enough flight crew over 32 years to recognize that many of them are tighter than duck's asses when it comes to breaking in to a pound or a dollar, paying dues etc.

You're suggesting that the RYR crews working out of Germany actually lived there, in my experience of the duck's asses trying to get them to step from their front door from where they lived, UK, Netherlands, France, wherever they expected transport and per diem to be provided just for stepping out of their front door.

I even had them, based in mainland Europe, expecting to take their 8 days off each month in N. America where they were domicile, I mean, never mind the FTL's, they expected to work 22 days on followed by 8 days off and one of the t0ssers, when drunk, assaulted me causing actual bodily harm in a bar one evening because I wouldn't schedule him 22 days on, 8 days off.

Reading between the lines here I'm recognising an envy from individuals that have been compelled to pay tax/SS against those that have managed to escape paying it.

Have I missed anything?

[ExDubai]

Yepp, you missed something
Regular starting/ending point of work is a german base. They need somehow a place to stay. Hahn in the winter time isn't a nice place for an outdoor crash pad. I know that tax avoiding is an somehow a natural habbit. But times changed and the German tax law is by far the most complicated tax law in the world. If they got you on the hook, you're done

[Phileas Fogg]

DXB,

Please define "regular" in the interpretation of German law.

In my experience of working with contractors some 90% of them remained domicile in their home countries and commuted to/from their contracted place of work.

I'm a hotelier, occasionally the cops come asking for guest information, data privacy laws prevent me from providing it, you're suggesting that all German hotels/guest houses etc. shall provide such illegal information and that it is a taxable offence to take a holiday in Germany?

To repeat myself ... I'm recognising an envy from individual(s) that have been compelled to pay tax/SS against those that have managed to escape paying it.

[172_driver]

So if they lived in Bishops Horrible their assigned base would be STN (England & Wales), if they lived in Leiden then AMS (Netherlands), Paris then whatever ****e airfield RYR call Paris (France) etc., even if all of these were positioning to/from Germany to work from there their tax/SS would fall payable in England & Wales, Netherlands, France etc. ... Wouldn't it?

Yes, that's how I see it. It was an amendment to EU legislation on coordination of social security that came into effect in June 2012 - for flight crew the assigned base is used as determination where SS is due. People based pre June -12 may pay Irish SS for a transition period of up to 10 years, unless a change is requested by either employer or employee.

Ironically you mention France, one country that has no Ryanair bases. Guess why? They did not want to play this silly game of Ryanair with based crews on Irish contracts following Irish labour laws.

I don't know the details of the court case to be honest, but before I left I heard people based in Germany moaning words to the effect of 'if you're gonna be fully tax compliant in Germany you'll be paying 60% + in taxes'. That's nothing they tell you in East Midlands at the induction week, but something you figure out as you go along.

[172_driver]

I'm a hotelier, occasionally the cops come asking for guest information, data privacy laws prevent me from providing it, you're suggesting that all German hotels/guest houses etc. shall provide such illegal information and that it is a taxable offence to take a holiday in Germany?

Phileas,

To me it sounds like you're doubting whether the police will be able to find German based pilots or not? Did I get that right?

Remember in the original news article, Ryanair said they are compelled to assist the German investigators in their investigation. If they're true to their word, it shouldn't be too hard to find them.