Monarch 2015
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Twiglet. I've been in that position. And the effect of threats from management that the airline will close and therefore need to hammer pay and conditions to surivive rarely fail to work on the workforce.
A fair amount of companies that end up staying in business have according to them scraped through using this tactic and dodged the bullet. Of course, nothing to do with overall business wastage, poor price point, lease deals, hedging errors etc etc. And funny that the next round of senior managers aren't exactly on 60k a year "all found". The companies that do go out of business tend to go quick without bullying the staff to believe its their fault that their perceived high pay and days off are jeopardising the company. It's the same old story. Badly managed, don't say anything for years. The accountants pick up the phone just giving the bottom line. As a manager you crap yourself, realise to fix the years of mis management/bad descisions takes too long. So then pick on the lowest common denominator to pick up your bill, then take the quick way. Blame it on them, the workers, they'll buy it. They're stupid.
Not saying there's a lot to do be done in this situation, as calling bluff when a company is threatening to shut its doors takes a brave man, but the airline world has recently seen more than its fair share of this trick.
A fair amount of companies that end up staying in business have according to them scraped through using this tactic and dodged the bullet. Of course, nothing to do with overall business wastage, poor price point, lease deals, hedging errors etc etc. And funny that the next round of senior managers aren't exactly on 60k a year "all found". The companies that do go out of business tend to go quick without bullying the staff to believe its their fault that their perceived high pay and days off are jeopardising the company. It's the same old story. Badly managed, don't say anything for years. The accountants pick up the phone just giving the bottom line. As a manager you crap yourself, realise to fix the years of mis management/bad descisions takes too long. So then pick on the lowest common denominator to pick up your bill, then take the quick way. Blame it on them, the workers, they'll buy it. They're stupid.
Not saying there's a lot to do be done in this situation, as calling bluff when a company is threatening to shut its doors takes a brave man, but the airline world has recently seen more than its fair share of this trick.
is the big freeze over?
Join Date: Jun 2004
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@ HP bleed,
Couldn't agree more! Anyone considering Monarch should do their research! Airline bought out by venture capitalists, currently part time in the winter and a summer slogging! Not the place it was!
Couldn't agree more! Anyone considering Monarch should do their research! Airline bought out by venture capitalists, currently part time in the winter and a summer slogging! Not the place it was!
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@ HP bleed,
Couldn't agree more! Anyone considering Monarch should do their research! Airline bought out by venture capitalists, currently part time in the winter and a summer slogging! Not the place it was!
Couldn't agree more! Anyone considering Monarch should do their research! Airline bought out by venture capitalists, currently part time in the winter and a summer slogging! Not the place it was!
Join Date: Aug 2010
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All pilots at Mon are on forced part year working which equates to slightly less than 85%. There was some talk about this being increased to 92% for next year, but with the recent issues in Egypt I would not hold your breath on any change for the foreseeable future.
Command, well who knows! My guess would be quite a long time. With no expansion plans and captains reluctant or unable to leave due to the recent pension massacre, you are basically reliant on age related retirements which are few and far between. Without a change in circumstance i.e mass expansion I think you could be easily looking at 10 to 15 years and let's be honest in this industry can anyone even be sure Mon will exist by then (or even next week)!
Command, well who knows! My guess would be quite a long time. With no expansion plans and captains reluctant or unable to leave due to the recent pension massacre, you are basically reliant on age related retirements which are few and far between. Without a change in circumstance i.e mass expansion I think you could be easily looking at 10 to 15 years and let's be honest in this industry can anyone even be sure Mon will exist by then (or even next week)!
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That's what they told me 3 years ago and I am still a long way down the seniority list. Unfortunately they seem to use command as a carrot to dangle to stop people leaving, to be honest they have very few other "carrots" available to them these days.
Anyone joining today will have at least 200 F/Os in front of them, obviously not all will have the hours (but that will change with time) and not all will meet the grade but it's still a vast number ahead of you. The airline is not expanding or expected to for a number of years (or ever) and the captains are all very reluctant to leave, so you are reliant on retirements. Because of the changes last year many captains were hit hard on their pensions so are now all planning to work till 65.
So to be honest I don't believe anyone has any chance of command for many many years possible 10 or more and who can say if monarch will even be here by then. There are some great reasons to join Mon but unfortanately this is not one.
Anyone joining today will have at least 200 F/Os in front of them, obviously not all will have the hours (but that will change with time) and not all will meet the grade but it's still a vast number ahead of you. The airline is not expanding or expected to for a number of years (or ever) and the captains are all very reluctant to leave, so you are reliant on retirements. Because of the changes last year many captains were hit hard on their pensions so are now all planning to work till 65.
So to be honest I don't believe anyone has any chance of command for many many years possible 10 or more and who can say if monarch will even be here by then. There are some great reasons to join Mon but unfortanately this is not one.
Last edited by Enzo999; 2nd Dec 2015 at 11:45.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sale
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Just for a bit of balance regarding time to command.
I waited 8 years.
Command courses are running this year for F/O's that have been in the company as low as 4.5 years.
Many captains are not contemplating going back full time when that happens in the next couple of years.
Some captains will retire early rather than go on the 737 max when it arrives.
Some are now considering part-time working, now that it is in a more agreeable format.
Also, the fleet size maybe 30 but probably towards the 45 including firm orders.
We aren't as competitive T&C's wise, so the churn of F/O's might be higher than in previous years. (When it was quite high anyway).
Also, there would presently be just 183 F/O's above you
That's a positive spin on things. Possibly, reality might be somewhere in the middle.
If you really want to know the time to command, get one of these:
I waited 8 years.
Command courses are running this year for F/O's that have been in the company as low as 4.5 years.
Many captains are not contemplating going back full time when that happens in the next couple of years.
Some captains will retire early rather than go on the 737 max when it arrives.
Some are now considering part-time working, now that it is in a more agreeable format.
Also, the fleet size maybe 30 but probably towards the 45 including firm orders.
We aren't as competitive T&C's wise, so the churn of F/O's might be higher than in previous years. (When it was quite high anyway).
Also, there would presently be just 183 F/O's above you
That's a positive spin on things. Possibly, reality might be somewhere in the middle.
If you really want to know the time to command, get one of these:
Join Date: May 2002
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183 is close to 200 hence a smiley face.
The EASA FTLs have battered us this year, so expect many to stay on PYW or go onto PYW.
Thought I'd provide information as accurately as I know for anyone interested.
The EASA FTLs have battered us this year, so expect many to stay on PYW or go onto PYW.
Thought I'd provide information as accurately as I know for anyone interested.
and the captains are all very reluctant to leave
Of those who left last winter (captains and f/os), most have a right to return, with seniority above anyone joining now.
Plumbum Pendular
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Expansion will be coming, but unlike before the restructure it will be measured and controlled. I think that there will be expansion long before the 737s are delivered.
Who ever said Monarch were bought by venture capitalists have got it wrong. It is a family investment trust with a very different business model than your average asset stripping VC. Having said that they are not stupid....
Who ever said Monarch were bought by venture capitalists have got it wrong. It is a family investment trust with a very different business model than your average asset stripping VC. Having said that they are not stupid....