Ryanair in Copenhagen ... or not
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Location: Denmark
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If you won't join them, beat them! -part two
Ladies and gentlemen,
Referring to the informative posts by Dusk2dawn on Febr. 4th
resp. Feb. 12th I would like to add the following twist to this saga:
It looks as if there's nothing to celebrate .... yet!
At a press conference in CPH yesterday Ryanair bosses David
O'Brien and Eddie Wilson stated that they would speed up their
CPH launch to March 18th, initially with a DUB-CPH route. FR will
be using A/C and crews based in DUB, thus making any industrial
action by the Danish unions illegal. Mr. Wilson added that in fact
FR could operate any of the planned routes from CPH from
other bases.
A Danish lawyer, Mr. Michael Møller Nielsen, a Labour law
specialist 'discreetly' attended the press conference, indicating
that FR is willing to roll out the heavy artillery against the
Danish Unions. Mr. Nielsen confirmed to a journalist that his
firm would be assisting FR in connection with their meeting
with the Danish Labour Court due on February 26th.
Besides there's the intended meeting with Serviceforbundet -
representing the Flight Personnel Union. It appears that the
parties have yet to agree on a date; Mr.John Dybart of
Serviceforbundet had apparently declined to meet with FR at
a short notice (yesterday!)and suggested two other dates, which in
turn were declined by Mr. O'Brien!!
It lead Mr. O'Brien to throw his toys out of the pram, accusing
Mr. Dybart of avoiding a Ryanair meeting whatsoever! To prove
his point Mr. O'Brien handed out copies of their mail correspondence
to the journalists!
Another FR press conference is due later this month!
Source: Check-in, a Danish news site for the Airline and travel industry.
So I'm afraid it's still undecided who'll end up with egg on their faces!
Referring to the informative posts by Dusk2dawn on Febr. 4th
resp. Feb. 12th I would like to add the following twist to this saga:
It looks as if there's nothing to celebrate .... yet!
At a press conference in CPH yesterday Ryanair bosses David
O'Brien and Eddie Wilson stated that they would speed up their
CPH launch to March 18th, initially with a DUB-CPH route. FR will
be using A/C and crews based in DUB, thus making any industrial
action by the Danish unions illegal. Mr. Wilson added that in fact
FR could operate any of the planned routes from CPH from
other bases.
A Danish lawyer, Mr. Michael Møller Nielsen, a Labour law
specialist 'discreetly' attended the press conference, indicating
that FR is willing to roll out the heavy artillery against the
Danish Unions. Mr. Nielsen confirmed to a journalist that his
firm would be assisting FR in connection with their meeting
with the Danish Labour Court due on February 26th.
Besides there's the intended meeting with Serviceforbundet -
representing the Flight Personnel Union. It appears that the
parties have yet to agree on a date; Mr.John Dybart of
Serviceforbundet had apparently declined to meet with FR at
a short notice (yesterday!)and suggested two other dates, which in
turn were declined by Mr. O'Brien!!
It lead Mr. O'Brien to throw his toys out of the pram, accusing
Mr. Dybart of avoiding a Ryanair meeting whatsoever! To prove
his point Mr. O'Brien handed out copies of their mail correspondence
to the journalists!
Another FR press conference is due later this month!
Source: Check-in, a Danish news site for the Airline and travel industry.
So I'm afraid it's still undecided who'll end up with egg on their faces!
Last edited by oyviv; 13th Feb 2015 at 21:42. Reason: typo
Transparency International
First Labour Court session
From the FPU union website:
Arbejdsretten har holdt første møde om Ryanair
FPU on meeting with Ryanair
Arbejdsretten har holdt første møde om Ryanair
February 26th, 2015
Flight Personel Union (FPU) and its parent organisation, Serviceforbundet, today met with Ryanair in the Labour Court, which in the near future will decide whether a conflict against the Irish airline will be legal.
The Labour Court has today begun examining whether the FPU and Serviceforbundet legally can run an industrial conflict against Ryanair, if the Irish airline does not wish to enter a Danish agreement.
The Labour Court has decided that it is an urgent case, and the court will hold its next meeting on 26 March 2015. Here, the Labour Court decide when it will take its final decision.
"This was the initiating meeting. We are happy that it is a matter of urgency. That was what we wanted. Now the case moves and we await a decision, "says Thilde Waast chairman of FPU.
Today's meeting of the Industrial Court comes after the FPU and Serviceforbundet Friday last week in London met with Ryanair. Here, the Danes had a draft agreement with subsequently also been sent to Ryanair.
"Examples of staff contracts shows that Ryanair cabin crew secured only 11 months' salary per year, that they must change working country at very short notice, and even pay their own uniforms and ID cards. This is why we act, to ensure our future colleagues in Denmark reasonable terms, "says Thilde Waast.
Ryanair has so far rejected to enter into a collective agreement for its staff in Copenhagen. Therefore, FPU and Serviceforbundet announced conflict in accordance with the Danish model.
As Ryanair previously announced that the airline will take legal action against any conflict, the National Labour Organisation (LO) has asked the Labour Court to decide whether a conflict would be lawful.
Flight Personel Union (FPU) and its parent organisation, Serviceforbundet, today met with Ryanair in the Labour Court, which in the near future will decide whether a conflict against the Irish airline will be legal.
The Labour Court has today begun examining whether the FPU and Serviceforbundet legally can run an industrial conflict against Ryanair, if the Irish airline does not wish to enter a Danish agreement.
The Labour Court has decided that it is an urgent case, and the court will hold its next meeting on 26 March 2015. Here, the Labour Court decide when it will take its final decision.
"This was the initiating meeting. We are happy that it is a matter of urgency. That was what we wanted. Now the case moves and we await a decision, "says Thilde Waast chairman of FPU.
Today's meeting of the Industrial Court comes after the FPU and Serviceforbundet Friday last week in London met with Ryanair. Here, the Danes had a draft agreement with subsequently also been sent to Ryanair.
"Examples of staff contracts shows that Ryanair cabin crew secured only 11 months' salary per year, that they must change working country at very short notice, and even pay their own uniforms and ID cards. This is why we act, to ensure our future colleagues in Denmark reasonable terms, "says Thilde Waast.
Ryanair has so far rejected to enter into a collective agreement for its staff in Copenhagen. Therefore, FPU and Serviceforbundet announced conflict in accordance with the Danish model.
As Ryanair previously announced that the airline will take legal action against any conflict, the National Labour Organisation (LO) has asked the Labour Court to decide whether a conflict would be lawful.
FPU on meeting with Ryanair
Last edited by dusk2dawn; 26th Feb 2015 at 19:22. Reason: Add URL re meeting with Ryanair (English text)
Transparency International
The following is from the "Danish Broadcasting Corporation" (DR-News) today (09 MAR 2015) with assistance from Google Translate and Yours Truly.
Advokat: Ryanair har en dårlig sag | Nyheder | DR
Advokat: Ryanair har en dårlig sag | Nyheder | DR
Spring offers an exciting labor dispute when the Irish budget airline Ryanair as planned makes its inroads in Copenhagen at the end of March.
Ryanair will establish base in Copenhagen, and it has made the (central) Labor Organization (LO) to pull Ryanair in the Labor Court of Denmark.
When an airline establishes base somewhere, it means namely that their employees must live where the base is located.
LO therefore believes that Ryanair should enter into a Danish collective agreement with their employees, but this is rejected by Ryanair.
LO has given notice of a blockade of Ryanair, and the Labor Court must now decide whether it can validates the blockade.
Peter Breum, a labor lawyer with Elmer & Partners, estimates that Ryanair is faced with a bad case.
- I believe that the Danish labor will recognize LO's right to perform a conflict, and then supporting conflicts will be established to put an end to baggage handling, fuel for Ryanair aircraft and more, so it is impossible to operate an aircraft he says.
Hard to get a case before the court
Ryanair has told DR-News that they will try to have the case brought before the European Court of Justice if they do not succeed in the Labor Court.
That will be a bit of a challenge, says Peter Breum.
- I think that Ryanair will have a hard time getting the case to the ECJ. It only happens if the Labor Court believes that the directives claimed are unclear in some way.
ECJ only raises cases where a national court - such as the Labor Court - asks the court about it, or if a European Commissioner requests so.
Companies and individuals can not simply demand to be tried a case before the European Court of Justice.
If Ryanair loses in the Danish Labour Court, the airline will argue that Denmark is violating EU rules on workers free movement.
Ryanair may, for example, complain to the Commission in the hope of having the matter raised at the European Court of Justice.
Labor struggles are also part of the EU
Peter Breum think, however, that Ryanair also here will struggle to succeed with their arguments.
- To establish a professional organization and fight for a collective agreement, it is something that is also rooted in the EU.
Ryanair's first flight takes off on schedule from Copenhagen on 18 March. The base in Copenhagen is scheduled to be established on 26 March.
Ryanair will establish base in Copenhagen, and it has made the (central) Labor Organization (LO) to pull Ryanair in the Labor Court of Denmark.
When an airline establishes base somewhere, it means namely that their employees must live where the base is located.
LO therefore believes that Ryanair should enter into a Danish collective agreement with their employees, but this is rejected by Ryanair.
LO has given notice of a blockade of Ryanair, and the Labor Court must now decide whether it can validates the blockade.
Peter Breum, a labor lawyer with Elmer & Partners, estimates that Ryanair is faced with a bad case.
- I believe that the Danish labor will recognize LO's right to perform a conflict, and then supporting conflicts will be established to put an end to baggage handling, fuel for Ryanair aircraft and more, so it is impossible to operate an aircraft he says.
Hard to get a case before the court
Ryanair has told DR-News that they will try to have the case brought before the European Court of Justice if they do not succeed in the Labor Court.
That will be a bit of a challenge, says Peter Breum.
- I think that Ryanair will have a hard time getting the case to the ECJ. It only happens if the Labor Court believes that the directives claimed are unclear in some way.
ECJ only raises cases where a national court - such as the Labor Court - asks the court about it, or if a European Commissioner requests so.
Companies and individuals can not simply demand to be tried a case before the European Court of Justice.
If Ryanair loses in the Danish Labour Court, the airline will argue that Denmark is violating EU rules on workers free movement.
Ryanair may, for example, complain to the Commission in the hope of having the matter raised at the European Court of Justice.
Labor struggles are also part of the EU
Peter Breum think, however, that Ryanair also here will struggle to succeed with their arguments.
- To establish a professional organization and fight for a collective agreement, it is something that is also rooted in the EU.
Ryanair's first flight takes off on schedule from Copenhagen on 18 March. The base in Copenhagen is scheduled to be established on 26 March.
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FR inaugural flight blockade CPH??
Ryanair inaugural flight FR632 ex DUB arrived CPH 14.03z,
scheduled to return at 14.30z. The a/c was met by a group of
ramp workers waving the Danish flag, a somewhat ambigous
welcome however perceived by some passengers as a
'cute and nice' gesture, according to a Radio Denmark journalist
o/b.
As I type (15.50z) EI-EVO is still on the apron waiting to be
refuelled. The police have arrived to remove the alledged
picketers, who were standing outside the security area,
or so they claim!
It goes without saying that Ryanair now sees this as illegal
industrial action rather than a coincidental delay!
The events are still being covered live by Radio Denmark web-TV!
The question is how this will affect further proceedings regarding
the announced industrial action (see above) against Ryanair!
I trust that one of the 'flying Danes' on this forum will keep you
posted on the further developments in the coming weeks!
scheduled to return at 14.30z. The a/c was met by a group of
ramp workers waving the Danish flag, a somewhat ambigous
welcome however perceived by some passengers as a
'cute and nice' gesture, according to a Radio Denmark journalist
o/b.
As I type (15.50z) EI-EVO is still on the apron waiting to be
refuelled. The police have arrived to remove the alledged
picketers, who were standing outside the security area,
or so they claim!
It goes without saying that Ryanair now sees this as illegal
industrial action rather than a coincidental delay!
The events are still being covered live by Radio Denmark web-TV!
The question is how this will affect further proceedings regarding
the announced industrial action (see above) against Ryanair!
I trust that one of the 'flying Danes' on this forum will keep you
posted on the further developments in the coming weeks!
Last edited by oyviv; 19th Mar 2015 at 09:12. Reason: correction
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quote
What was the schedule off chocks time in Z ? Did they nicely
trigger the 3 hour compensation delay payment for passengers ?
unquote
STD was 14.30z. Off chocks is ATD, if my memory serves me right!
As for the 3 hour compensation: I wouldn't know; at the end
of the day I suppose it's up to Ryanair. However I doubt that they're
obliged to pay any compensation as they were the innocent party
in the delay!
What was the schedule off chocks time in Z ? Did they nicely
trigger the 3 hour compensation delay payment for passengers ?
unquote
STD was 14.30z. Off chocks is ATD, if my memory serves me right!
As for the 3 hour compensation: I wouldn't know; at the end
of the day I suppose it's up to Ryanair. However I doubt that they're
obliged to pay any compensation as they were the innocent party
in the delay!
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Quote
Ryanair and innocent party in the same sentence... Ha ha oxymoron
They're anything but innocent, they created the situation !
unquote
Well, that's one way of putting it and I don't disagree as such
!
However the unions knew that by operating the flight from their
DUB-base Ryanair was off limits today and that the FR
tolerance threshold would be low regarding any 'delays' or
dawdling on the part of the handlers!
A scheduled 30 mins. turn-around ended up being a 3 hour
delay, and according to a spokesperson from CPH Airport it's
most likely to be treated as an illegal industrial action! This could
end up being counterproductive for the cause of the unions later on!
Ryanair decided to advance their CPH launch by one week,
and it's not for me to second-guess their agenda.
IMHO the assembled ramp workers, whether off- or on-duty
would have made a greater impact had they just waved their flags,
bowed deeply in front of the aircraft and then trundled off to
a cold Carlsberg in the cafeteria, of course leaving the assigned
handlers to get on with their jobs!
For the record: Due to the pending case in the Labour Court, the
Danish TUC (LO) strongly advised against taking illegal action against
FR today and tonight they denounced any such activity earlier
today.
Ryanair and innocent party in the same sentence... Ha ha oxymoron
They're anything but innocent, they created the situation !
unquote
Well, that's one way of putting it and I don't disagree as such
!However the unions knew that by operating the flight from their
DUB-base Ryanair was off limits today and that the FR
tolerance threshold would be low regarding any 'delays' or
dawdling on the part of the handlers!
A scheduled 30 mins. turn-around ended up being a 3 hour
delay, and according to a spokesperson from CPH Airport it's
most likely to be treated as an illegal industrial action! This could
end up being counterproductive for the cause of the unions later on!
Ryanair decided to advance their CPH launch by one week,
and it's not for me to second-guess their agenda.
IMHO the assembled ramp workers, whether off- or on-duty
would have made a greater impact had they just waved their flags,
bowed deeply in front of the aircraft and then trundled off to
a cold Carlsberg in the cafeteria, of course leaving the assigned
handlers to get on with their jobs!
For the record: Due to the pending case in the Labour Court, the
Danish TUC (LO) strongly advised against taking illegal action against
FR today and tonight they denounced any such activity earlier
today.
Last edited by oyviv; 18th Mar 2015 at 23:04. Reason: addition
Transparency International
Labor Court session March 26
Danish union on the March 26 court meeting
...Google translate of union president statement above..:
...Google translate of union president statement above..:
[no verdict but...] the Labour Court has instead decided that the next meeting will take place on 12 May. The judge expect that the case can then be treated quickly, and the date of the final hearing expected to be fixed shortly thereafter.
It is a shame that we did not get the date yesterday. Ryanair has presented the court for no less than 12 items of EU acts and argue constantly that their employees in Denmark must work under Irish wages and working conditions. The Labour Court has a pile of papers to be read and considered.
In addition, Ryanair does not think that the Danish Labor Court is competent to work with the matter.
It is a shame that we did not get the date yesterday. Ryanair has presented the court for no less than 12 items of EU acts and argue constantly that their employees in Denmark must work under Irish wages and working conditions. The Labour Court has a pile of papers to be read and considered.
In addition, Ryanair does not think that the Danish Labor Court is competent to work with the matter.
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Good on the Danes! Stop the race to the bottom and teach those stupid Pikeys and Poms (switching on brake fans! 
) a lesson by sticking to the CWA and rulebook!! 
The world needs less TTIP, low cost and fast food!
) a lesson by sticking to the CWA and rulebook!! The world needs less TTIP, low cost and fast food!
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And the nationality of the people and the airline that gave you your lucky break into the jet world thus enabling you to move on was......?
Please enlighten me, what do low cost airlines actually GIVE to employees, apart from social dumping and the 'privilege' to be treated like dirt?
Low cost is the cancer of aviation!
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Even if Ryanair would treat their emplyees with respect and decent conditions, the jobs would still be there. If not with them, then with someone else. I don't see any reason not to criticize RYR for paying below local minimum wages, no matter if former cadet or not.
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During the various debates for the soon UK government election many politicians had very strong condemnation that there were >700,000 workers in UK on zero-hour contracts.No workers' rights, pensions, sick pay, holiday pay, protection against being laid off, difficulty in obtaining credit & mortgages etc. etc.
If you look around you will find the profession littered with such contracts. Most we hear about are complained about, but nothing is done about them. There are many excuses, but they are just that, not justifiable reasons. If there is strong political support to end zero-hour contracts and the victims do nothing, including the relevant unions, then they have only themselves to blame. It is almost as if the politicians are inviting information. Last chance!
If you look around you will find the profession littered with such contracts. Most we hear about are complained about, but nothing is done about them. There are many excuses, but they are just that, not justifiable reasons. If there is strong political support to end zero-hour contracts and the victims do nothing, including the relevant unions, then they have only themselves to blame. It is almost as if the politicians are inviting information. Last chance!