Norwegian Pilots Not Happy
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Play Station;
I’m all for union representation and “one for all and all for one” - I’m also for the reality of human nature.
It would have been more akin to unfolding events to have penned, “Welcome to the world of the contractor” to your colleagues and union members up North. Their ‘collective’ days are numbered, they just don’t know it yet – sadly, by the end of the week, they will. Before that though, many will have secured an OSM or other contract for themselves, despite your support, directions to unite and courageous call to arms.
“WE ARE ONE GROUP of Norwegian pilots” – Really, so we can expect ALL the non-union agency pilots to fully support their union colleagues?
Neither you nor any other agency pilots are protected from immediate termination if you refuse a work order to zip over to Scandinavia to replace a striking colleague (isn't there a name for that). Are you going to be the first courageous one to refuse to go?
The demise of the “core” started when you joined Norwegian, at the time Helsinki and Malaga bases were first opened with agency crew. All were given the promise of full time employment directly with Norwegian after, what was it, one or two years, when the base was established and making profit. The union had every opportunity to take action then, but did not. They let Kjos blow wind up all their asses and everyone else’s, including those naive agency pilots who thought permanent employment with Norwegian was guaranteed. Some agency Captains even left to join Norwegian as F/O’s – will they now return as agency Captains or agency F/O’s, how ironic.
The Scandinavian union pilots will be hung out to dry. Not one agency pilot will refuse a flight replacing them. Slowly but surely, most if not all, will sign an OSM or other contract, with no benefits, no union representation and no Norway government labor law protection.
Just to rub salt in the wound, Kjos will use this bankruptcy ploy as a way of “cleansing”all the union pilots he ever wanted to get rid of. Company seniority will not apply.
All for one and one for all - in your dreams. Sorry chums, but these are the cold, hard facts of today's airline world WE have collectively allowed.
I’m all for union representation and “one for all and all for one” - I’m also for the reality of human nature.
It would have been more akin to unfolding events to have penned, “Welcome to the world of the contractor” to your colleagues and union members up North. Their ‘collective’ days are numbered, they just don’t know it yet – sadly, by the end of the week, they will. Before that though, many will have secured an OSM or other contract for themselves, despite your support, directions to unite and courageous call to arms.
“WE ARE ONE GROUP of Norwegian pilots” – Really, so we can expect ALL the non-union agency pilots to fully support their union colleagues?
Neither you nor any other agency pilots are protected from immediate termination if you refuse a work order to zip over to Scandinavia to replace a striking colleague (isn't there a name for that). Are you going to be the first courageous one to refuse to go?
The demise of the “core” started when you joined Norwegian, at the time Helsinki and Malaga bases were first opened with agency crew. All were given the promise of full time employment directly with Norwegian after, what was it, one or two years, when the base was established and making profit. The union had every opportunity to take action then, but did not. They let Kjos blow wind up all their asses and everyone else’s, including those naive agency pilots who thought permanent employment with Norwegian was guaranteed. Some agency Captains even left to join Norwegian as F/O’s – will they now return as agency Captains or agency F/O’s, how ironic.
The Scandinavian union pilots will be hung out to dry. Not one agency pilot will refuse a flight replacing them. Slowly but surely, most if not all, will sign an OSM or other contract, with no benefits, no union representation and no Norway government labor law protection.
Just to rub salt in the wound, Kjos will use this bankruptcy ploy as a way of “cleansing”all the union pilots he ever wanted to get rid of. Company seniority will not apply.
All for one and one for all - in your dreams. Sorry chums, but these are the cold, hard facts of today's airline world WE have collectively allowed.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My apologies for the limitations of "Google Translate", this was posted today by PARAT the umbrella Union of which NPU is a part.
If you "read between the lines" a bit, and substitute the Word "Norwegian" for "English" (why does it do that ? ? ) it is fairly readable.
Parat, via Google Translate
Freedom
Pilot Life at English
02.03.2015Anonym mate
The majority of my friends on Facebook who do not know the conditions of Aviation has no knowledge and ability to understand what we strikes, and therefore can easily come to buy the company's propaganda.
The post below is written by a helmsman in English, and shared on Facebook. Parat know the identity of the mate who has written the post, but who wish to remain anonymous.
Dear Facebook Friends.
This is a long post, sorry for that, but it is a complex issue that can not be explained by three sentences.
As you probably have got with you in the media is Norwegian pilots now on strike. We know that this creates some problems for anyone who plans to travel with us as long as it is ongoing. This is something we very sad. Our employer is also trying to defame us with media initiatives where high wages we have and how spoiled we are. Whatever I had to write to you about my views on the matter will surely be subjectively since I am a party to the conflict. However, I thought to share some objective facts.
I have spent 15 years of my life and overall more than a million dollars on education and maintenance of certificates, Typeratings and sundry. I have moved around the world in 10 years in pursuit of the "big job" with stability and orderly conditions. Meanwhile social and family have been put on hold.
I am 44 years and have not the opportunity to purchase their own housing due to lack of equity. It is used to get where I am today as helmsman on B737 in English. This sounds like whining and I regret? No, not the slightest. Had I failed to do this and developed my skills in the job I had before I started to fly as I had today been a sales manager in a larger company with fringe benefits, good pay and had repaid the house I bought in 1993 and which today is worth over three million. I regret? No, even a bad day in the air is better than the best day I had in office with a burning desire to fly. Just want everyone to know that they do not come into this job without sacrificing much on the road.
What is amazing conditions we have as an employer says makes us too expensive and spoiled? In my case it is as follows:
- An officer position with a salary in a salary rise beginning at 300,000 - and tops out at approximately 690 000, - I am a piece up on the ladder after three years in the "company"
- In addition we have the diet that we are on a business trip and will be covered expenses for having to acquire food outside the home, and as you might know it is not entirely free to eat out in the motherland.
- We can sell a day off and then we double day's wages, in other words the same as other people have about them working overtime by 100%. Is that so unreasonable?
- We have a loss of license insurance that is payable if AME takes away from us our medical certificate so we must stop flying. It is not something we can "take out" nor is anyone interested in it, because we want to fly. If we have to stop flying so we have no competence to enter into another profession other than low-paid unskilled jobs. This insurance is to cover the huge investment we have made to get into the pilot profession and cover, to a certain extent, some of the lost revenue. It is currently at 60G (5.3 million) but stepped down from age 51, so if you lose the certificate as 58-59 year old so most people who do it are, then it greatly reduced to only 15-20% of this. We must pay tax on insurance premiums and pr. date, this means that I have almost 5000, - kr. paid less per month.
- We have a defined benefit pension that will give us 60% of annual salary from we go by that pilot until National Insurance enters at 67 years of age. (At 30 years of qualifying, I'm going to clear max 20 years and thus significantly less). This pension insurance we have because we are legally required to stop in our profession several years before we get a pension from the state, what should a living off then?
- To get the collective agreement with the conditions I have described above, I am available for the company up to 13 hours per. day for 5 days followed by 4 days off. Disposable all day, everyday as holiday, Christmas and Easter, max one weekend per. month free. According EU legislation, we can fly a maximum 900 hours per year, but this is only the time in the air. We can have up to 2000 hours working hours (time from attendance until we go home, possibly in a hotel). Last year I flew 897 hours, but it's just the time in the air. On a day with 6 hours of flight time, I often 8-10 hours working time.
- Sometimes begin my work hours at. 4:30 in the morning and lasts 12 hours. During the 12 hours I have not break and must eat food in the cockpit while I'm flying and sitting and calculating data for the next landing to take place in a short and smooth path, and in the dark in Finnmark with 150 passengers behind me. Other times we start late at night and flying trip - return Mediterranean / or the Canary Islands in 9-13 hours without a break to land again at home into the morning hours.
We are except from the Working Environment Act what it comes breaks and working!
- We live as glamorous, we travel around the lies in hotels? Yes, sometimes having flown / worked in 9-11 hours we arrive into a hotel at. 11:00 p.m. after the restaurant has closed. But that's okay, I have some crackers in my bag. And then we picked at. 5:30 the next day before breakfast is opened, but it is okay for kl. 7:00 when we get in the air so'll buy the company a dry Sandwich on me that I can eat while I'm planning approach to next destination. Glamorous?
Those who have famille with children can never know whether they will participate in birthdays, confirmations, Christmas, football games etc. etc.
For this I had on previous paycheck paid 29 500 kr. Had albeit holiday in parts of January, when I have full diet I end up at around 33 000, - paid because of the high taxes on insurance. Is it unreasonable?
The last eight years have wage settlement in Norwegian adjusted salary up by less than the consumer price index so that real wages have declined. Last year adjustment + 0.7%
The reason that this year we ended strike:
Some history about English.
Norwegian started its low cost operation in Norway with B737 for something over 10 years ago in a tough market and with limited resources. Extremely motivated staff both in Cockpit and cabin and on the ground made it a great success. Eventually went expansion out to Sweden and Denmark and the pilots there was the same collective bargaining agreement as the Norwegian. There was only one employer and one pilot group. The pilots were flexible and worked hard to deliver a good product to the passengers, there were problems due to weather / technical so asked people happy and worked extra. This resulted in trust by the employer and gradually improving the conditions negotiated.
In 2011 opened Norwegian base in Finland but this time, instead of hiring pilots in Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA on applicable collective agreement, then offered the pilots began where a contract with an Estonian employment agency owned by a Norwegian with miserable conditions. No insurance, no pension, no tax, no social security (ie sick pay etc. all we have in Norway due. We pay social security contributions and payroll taxes). This avoided airlines having to pay payroll and having an employer responsibility. Everything that is in Nordic labor laws came they then clear away.
Employment on such a contract is completely absent, Norwegian may terminate the contract with the agency with one month's notice and unions are excluded. Open your mouth and protest anything so you will be prompted to submit the uniform, then it straight out. What effect do you think this has on aviation safety with a view to enroll sick or refraining fly if one is tired?
Further expansion in Europe with new bases in Spain and eventually England was made similarly. But the main production was the still from Scandinavia as our colleagues on contract with bad conditions were flown in to Torp, Gothenburg and Oslo to produce flights to the Mediterranean and sometimes even domestic. I was first employment agency contract even with so-called base Malaga and then I flew including Torp Berlin Torp Evenes-Torp.
By expansion to long routes started the company under company in Ireland that have significantly poorer labor laws. This is because Norway will not grant exemptions from laws that made it impossible to use cabin crew from Thailand on the tacos terms.
The pilots in Scandinavia and our union so the which way the bar, we were to be replaced!
Negotiations for the past 3 years has not acted to improve our conditions, but to retain what we had and get attached principle that we should not be outdone by the pilots in their own company on social dumping contracts. This has meant that it has been on the verge of strikes in the last 3 years but in the last hour and overtime, our leader signed a protocol and agreement in principle that we should retain the existing company structure and production in Scandinavia - a deal that the company has broken at the first opportunity and more or less have not bothered.
Now it is clear in Norwegian working life, that in the time between negotiations are called peacetime, and thus does not have any forms of action available is legal, such as strikes. The company has therefore been able to persist them have willed without our pilot union has been able to do other than to report cases to the Labour Court. Judiciary grinder templates unfortunately slowly and meanwhile the company has come up with new twists. All cases that have been tried so far has given pilot union pursuance of breach of contract, but in the meantime, the company has found something new.
The biggest threat came last year while the union and the company put into negotiations on a new collective agreement for the permanent employees pilots (Norway, Sweden, Denmark.) The company created three staffing companies: Norwegian Air Norway, Norwegian Air Resources AB and Norwegian Air Resources Denmark. The transferred pilots in Norwegian Air Shuttle to these companies and went to Stockholm and Copenhagen and offered pilots where temporary agency contracts. Our collective in Scandinavia was split into three agreements with Agencies.
The only thing that stopped the strike last year was that Kjos signed that we still would get a common collective agreement for these three countries, a deal he has since broken.
In this year's negotiations the company wanted to raze our current agreement with major reductions in wages, pensions and insurances. Our association said they are willing to discuss and let both pensions, salaries and insurance in the pot. In addition, we should move from a fixed rota system to a fully variable a, and lose control of large parts of our holiday. In return demanded the pilots that we should have a collective agreement with the "real employer" which is the parent company Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA and a common seniority list for the group. This was totally unacceptable and the company would not an inch of this. And we understand the why, it would have been a brake on divide and conquer strategy to our beloved leader.
The company has just submitted a large deficit and claim that we in Scandinavia have been too expensive and too inflexible. Fact is that we still flying the same routes profitable domestic and southward as we have done all the time, apart from the routes that have been taken away from us and given to contractual bases in Europe.
The big losses coming by Norwegian commitment to long routes with B787 separate from our production and all the antics of reorganization that has given huge costs.
The company claims they went to mediation with a desire to reach the finish and avoid a strike. Simultaneously signed the contracts with charter companies to fly our production and flew up contractors to Scandinavia from contractual bases for conducting strikebreaking. Then it is probably fair clear it was never its intention and avoid strike ?!
The company claims this is not a strike wrestling because when staffing firm Norwegian Air Norway can not deliver pilot services to them during the strike so it is free for them to use pilots from another staffing agency in Spain or England. In other words they make it that we have feared, and set come in 3 years.
The company has operated for the past 3 years is a gradual positioning of the them do today:
Union Crushing!
So far I have written objective facts and not guesswork. But if I should predict further development with my subjective opinion is the one that follows:
-Plan To Kjos and Co. are now and beat Norwegian Air Norway bankrupt and then we are 650 pilots in Scandinavia unemployed and can not strike or have union because "the company" we are "employed" in no longer exists.
- The moment he turned NAN bankrupt and we all 650 are unemployed so there is suddenly a lousy contract from a new staffing company in the mailbox with the message that the 450 first signs have jobs, while the rest are out. This will be individual agreements without union affiliation so that one is without any assurance that organized labor in Norway provides. They hope then that people without jobs in fear signing.
The way English has behaved in the past 3-4 years, a clear violation of the Scandinavian model in the workplace we have had over the last 100 years.
We are returning to the raw turbo capitalism that existed in the early 1900s before the labor movement got fought through a regulated workplaces.
This is the battle we are fighting against Ryanair.
- Officer in English
If you "read between the lines" a bit, and substitute the Word "Norwegian" for "English" (why does it do that ? ? ) it is fairly readable.
Parat, via Google Translate
Freedom
Pilot Life at English
02.03.2015Anonym mate
The majority of my friends on Facebook who do not know the conditions of Aviation has no knowledge and ability to understand what we strikes, and therefore can easily come to buy the company's propaganda.
The post below is written by a helmsman in English, and shared on Facebook. Parat know the identity of the mate who has written the post, but who wish to remain anonymous.
Dear Facebook Friends.
This is a long post, sorry for that, but it is a complex issue that can not be explained by three sentences.
As you probably have got with you in the media is Norwegian pilots now on strike. We know that this creates some problems for anyone who plans to travel with us as long as it is ongoing. This is something we very sad. Our employer is also trying to defame us with media initiatives where high wages we have and how spoiled we are. Whatever I had to write to you about my views on the matter will surely be subjectively since I am a party to the conflict. However, I thought to share some objective facts.
I have spent 15 years of my life and overall more than a million dollars on education and maintenance of certificates, Typeratings and sundry. I have moved around the world in 10 years in pursuit of the "big job" with stability and orderly conditions. Meanwhile social and family have been put on hold.
I am 44 years and have not the opportunity to purchase their own housing due to lack of equity. It is used to get where I am today as helmsman on B737 in English. This sounds like whining and I regret? No, not the slightest. Had I failed to do this and developed my skills in the job I had before I started to fly as I had today been a sales manager in a larger company with fringe benefits, good pay and had repaid the house I bought in 1993 and which today is worth over three million. I regret? No, even a bad day in the air is better than the best day I had in office with a burning desire to fly. Just want everyone to know that they do not come into this job without sacrificing much on the road.
What is amazing conditions we have as an employer says makes us too expensive and spoiled? In my case it is as follows:
- An officer position with a salary in a salary rise beginning at 300,000 - and tops out at approximately 690 000, - I am a piece up on the ladder after three years in the "company"
- In addition we have the diet that we are on a business trip and will be covered expenses for having to acquire food outside the home, and as you might know it is not entirely free to eat out in the motherland.
- We can sell a day off and then we double day's wages, in other words the same as other people have about them working overtime by 100%. Is that so unreasonable?
- We have a loss of license insurance that is payable if AME takes away from us our medical certificate so we must stop flying. It is not something we can "take out" nor is anyone interested in it, because we want to fly. If we have to stop flying so we have no competence to enter into another profession other than low-paid unskilled jobs. This insurance is to cover the huge investment we have made to get into the pilot profession and cover, to a certain extent, some of the lost revenue. It is currently at 60G (5.3 million) but stepped down from age 51, so if you lose the certificate as 58-59 year old so most people who do it are, then it greatly reduced to only 15-20% of this. We must pay tax on insurance premiums and pr. date, this means that I have almost 5000, - kr. paid less per month.
- We have a defined benefit pension that will give us 60% of annual salary from we go by that pilot until National Insurance enters at 67 years of age. (At 30 years of qualifying, I'm going to clear max 20 years and thus significantly less). This pension insurance we have because we are legally required to stop in our profession several years before we get a pension from the state, what should a living off then?
- To get the collective agreement with the conditions I have described above, I am available for the company up to 13 hours per. day for 5 days followed by 4 days off. Disposable all day, everyday as holiday, Christmas and Easter, max one weekend per. month free. According EU legislation, we can fly a maximum 900 hours per year, but this is only the time in the air. We can have up to 2000 hours working hours (time from attendance until we go home, possibly in a hotel). Last year I flew 897 hours, but it's just the time in the air. On a day with 6 hours of flight time, I often 8-10 hours working time.
- Sometimes begin my work hours at. 4:30 in the morning and lasts 12 hours. During the 12 hours I have not break and must eat food in the cockpit while I'm flying and sitting and calculating data for the next landing to take place in a short and smooth path, and in the dark in Finnmark with 150 passengers behind me. Other times we start late at night and flying trip - return Mediterranean / or the Canary Islands in 9-13 hours without a break to land again at home into the morning hours.
We are except from the Working Environment Act what it comes breaks and working!
- We live as glamorous, we travel around the lies in hotels? Yes, sometimes having flown / worked in 9-11 hours we arrive into a hotel at. 11:00 p.m. after the restaurant has closed. But that's okay, I have some crackers in my bag. And then we picked at. 5:30 the next day before breakfast is opened, but it is okay for kl. 7:00 when we get in the air so'll buy the company a dry Sandwich on me that I can eat while I'm planning approach to next destination. Glamorous?
Those who have famille with children can never know whether they will participate in birthdays, confirmations, Christmas, football games etc. etc.
For this I had on previous paycheck paid 29 500 kr. Had albeit holiday in parts of January, when I have full diet I end up at around 33 000, - paid because of the high taxes on insurance. Is it unreasonable?
The last eight years have wage settlement in Norwegian adjusted salary up by less than the consumer price index so that real wages have declined. Last year adjustment + 0.7%
The reason that this year we ended strike:
Some history about English.
Norwegian started its low cost operation in Norway with B737 for something over 10 years ago in a tough market and with limited resources. Extremely motivated staff both in Cockpit and cabin and on the ground made it a great success. Eventually went expansion out to Sweden and Denmark and the pilots there was the same collective bargaining agreement as the Norwegian. There was only one employer and one pilot group. The pilots were flexible and worked hard to deliver a good product to the passengers, there were problems due to weather / technical so asked people happy and worked extra. This resulted in trust by the employer and gradually improving the conditions negotiated.
In 2011 opened Norwegian base in Finland but this time, instead of hiring pilots in Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA on applicable collective agreement, then offered the pilots began where a contract with an Estonian employment agency owned by a Norwegian with miserable conditions. No insurance, no pension, no tax, no social security (ie sick pay etc. all we have in Norway due. We pay social security contributions and payroll taxes). This avoided airlines having to pay payroll and having an employer responsibility. Everything that is in Nordic labor laws came they then clear away.
Employment on such a contract is completely absent, Norwegian may terminate the contract with the agency with one month's notice and unions are excluded. Open your mouth and protest anything so you will be prompted to submit the uniform, then it straight out. What effect do you think this has on aviation safety with a view to enroll sick or refraining fly if one is tired?
Further expansion in Europe with new bases in Spain and eventually England was made similarly. But the main production was the still from Scandinavia as our colleagues on contract with bad conditions were flown in to Torp, Gothenburg and Oslo to produce flights to the Mediterranean and sometimes even domestic. I was first employment agency contract even with so-called base Malaga and then I flew including Torp Berlin Torp Evenes-Torp.
By expansion to long routes started the company under company in Ireland that have significantly poorer labor laws. This is because Norway will not grant exemptions from laws that made it impossible to use cabin crew from Thailand on the tacos terms.
The pilots in Scandinavia and our union so the which way the bar, we were to be replaced!
Negotiations for the past 3 years has not acted to improve our conditions, but to retain what we had and get attached principle that we should not be outdone by the pilots in their own company on social dumping contracts. This has meant that it has been on the verge of strikes in the last 3 years but in the last hour and overtime, our leader signed a protocol and agreement in principle that we should retain the existing company structure and production in Scandinavia - a deal that the company has broken at the first opportunity and more or less have not bothered.
Now it is clear in Norwegian working life, that in the time between negotiations are called peacetime, and thus does not have any forms of action available is legal, such as strikes. The company has therefore been able to persist them have willed without our pilot union has been able to do other than to report cases to the Labour Court. Judiciary grinder templates unfortunately slowly and meanwhile the company has come up with new twists. All cases that have been tried so far has given pilot union pursuance of breach of contract, but in the meantime, the company has found something new.
The biggest threat came last year while the union and the company put into negotiations on a new collective agreement for the permanent employees pilots (Norway, Sweden, Denmark.) The company created three staffing companies: Norwegian Air Norway, Norwegian Air Resources AB and Norwegian Air Resources Denmark. The transferred pilots in Norwegian Air Shuttle to these companies and went to Stockholm and Copenhagen and offered pilots where temporary agency contracts. Our collective in Scandinavia was split into three agreements with Agencies.
The only thing that stopped the strike last year was that Kjos signed that we still would get a common collective agreement for these three countries, a deal he has since broken.
In this year's negotiations the company wanted to raze our current agreement with major reductions in wages, pensions and insurances. Our association said they are willing to discuss and let both pensions, salaries and insurance in the pot. In addition, we should move from a fixed rota system to a fully variable a, and lose control of large parts of our holiday. In return demanded the pilots that we should have a collective agreement with the "real employer" which is the parent company Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA and a common seniority list for the group. This was totally unacceptable and the company would not an inch of this. And we understand the why, it would have been a brake on divide and conquer strategy to our beloved leader.
The company has just submitted a large deficit and claim that we in Scandinavia have been too expensive and too inflexible. Fact is that we still flying the same routes profitable domestic and southward as we have done all the time, apart from the routes that have been taken away from us and given to contractual bases in Europe.
The big losses coming by Norwegian commitment to long routes with B787 separate from our production and all the antics of reorganization that has given huge costs.
The company claims they went to mediation with a desire to reach the finish and avoid a strike. Simultaneously signed the contracts with charter companies to fly our production and flew up contractors to Scandinavia from contractual bases for conducting strikebreaking. Then it is probably fair clear it was never its intention and avoid strike ?!
The company claims this is not a strike wrestling because when staffing firm Norwegian Air Norway can not deliver pilot services to them during the strike so it is free for them to use pilots from another staffing agency in Spain or England. In other words they make it that we have feared, and set come in 3 years.
The company has operated for the past 3 years is a gradual positioning of the them do today:
Union Crushing!
So far I have written objective facts and not guesswork. But if I should predict further development with my subjective opinion is the one that follows:
-Plan To Kjos and Co. are now and beat Norwegian Air Norway bankrupt and then we are 650 pilots in Scandinavia unemployed and can not strike or have union because "the company" we are "employed" in no longer exists.
- The moment he turned NAN bankrupt and we all 650 are unemployed so there is suddenly a lousy contract from a new staffing company in the mailbox with the message that the 450 first signs have jobs, while the rest are out. This will be individual agreements without union affiliation so that one is without any assurance that organized labor in Norway provides. They hope then that people without jobs in fear signing.
The way English has behaved in the past 3-4 years, a clear violation of the Scandinavian model in the workplace we have had over the last 100 years.
We are returning to the raw turbo capitalism that existed in the early 1900s before the labor movement got fought through a regulated workplaces.
This is the battle we are fighting against Ryanair.
- Officer in English
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Up High, Down low, wherever I wanna go.
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A Norwegian web-based news agent just quoted this thread claiming that pprune posters made "threats" against contract pilots. Referring to the post about IFALPA, really twisting things now.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am a Contract Pilot, and have not been threatened, on the contrary the Union in Norway has been very specific that we must respect our own Contract & the employment laws of the country we are based/contracted in.
The main request made of us (which is an entirely fair one) has been not to sell days off.
Norwegian Air pilots braced for bankrupcty - The Local
The main request made of us (which is an entirely fair one) has been not to sell days off.
Norwegian Air pilots braced for bankrupcty - The Local
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Up High, Down low, wherever I wanna go.
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know, just letting you guys know how they take bits & pieces.
Unfortunately this seems to stick with the public, press is twisting everything mentioned on this very thread.
Unfortunately this seems to stick with the public, press is twisting everything mentioned on this very thread.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep, just goes to show how much you can believe what you read in the press.
The Norwegian public are neither gullible, nor suffering from short memories.
The "Big Bear" has somehow managed to have a major falling out with his staff annually for some time now, and the public remember that. The last one (involving the Cabin Crew) was very damaging to his reputation, as they tried to bully the CC into backing down by threatening to close all the crew bases in Norway except OSL and simultaneously withdraw I.D. travel . . . . this may be "The Norwegian-Airline Way", but the public certainly do not wish it to be seen as "The Norwegian -Nationality Way".
It was a massive own goal, and the greater majority of the "intelligent" public know the score here, even if TV companies/newspapers who appear to either be "in the pocket" or enjoy "a special relationship" with big business tell them otherwise.
The Norwegian public are neither gullible, nor suffering from short memories.
The "Big Bear" has somehow managed to have a major falling out with his staff annually for some time now, and the public remember that. The last one (involving the Cabin Crew) was very damaging to his reputation, as they tried to bully the CC into backing down by threatening to close all the crew bases in Norway except OSL and simultaneously withdraw I.D. travel . . . . this may be "The Norwegian-Airline Way", but the public certainly do not wish it to be seen as "The Norwegian -Nationality Way".
It was a massive own goal, and the greater majority of the "intelligent" public know the score here, even if TV companies/newspapers who appear to either be "in the pocket" or enjoy "a special relationship" with big business tell them otherwise.
Cabin crew may strike as well.
Norwegian Pilot Strike Can Be Extended with Sympathy Strike - The Nordic Page - Economy
Norwegian Pilot Strike Can Be Extended with Sympathy Strike - The Nordic Page - Economy
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Utterly insignificant little blue-green planet, unregarded yellow sun, unfashionable end, western spiral arm, Milky Way
Age: 38
Posts: 276
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by captplaystation
Yep, just goes to show how much you can believe what you read in the press.
The Norwegian public are neither gullible, nor suffering from short memories.
The "Big Bear" has somehow managed to have a major falling out with his staff annually for some time now, and the public remember that. The last one (involving the Cabin Crew) was very damaging to his reputation, as they tried to bully the CC into backing down by threatening to close all the crew bases in Norway except OSL and simultaneously withdraw I.D. travel . . . . this may be "The Norwegian-Airline Way", but the public certainly do not wish it to be seen as "The Norwegian -Nationality Way".
It was a massive own goal, and the greater majority of the "intelligent" public know the score here, even if TV companies/newspapers who appear to either be "in the pocket" or enjoy "a special relationship" with big business tell them otherwise.
The Norwegian public are neither gullible, nor suffering from short memories.
The "Big Bear" has somehow managed to have a major falling out with his staff annually for some time now, and the public remember that. The last one (involving the Cabin Crew) was very damaging to his reputation, as they tried to bully the CC into backing down by threatening to close all the crew bases in Norway except OSL and simultaneously withdraw I.D. travel . . . . this may be "The Norwegian-Airline Way", but the public certainly do not wish it to be seen as "The Norwegian -Nationality Way".
It was a massive own goal, and the greater majority of the "intelligent" public know the score here, even if TV companies/newspapers who appear to either be "in the pocket" or enjoy "a special relationship" with big business tell them otherwise.
who strike Dear Provider of Cheap Tickets' company to bankruptcy, 'cause it's all their fault, innit" posts in the comments sections of newspapers these days. Hopefully those are just the unwashed masses, while those who can actually put two and two together are far too intelligent to blather about in comments sections.. Hopefully.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: @ some hotel far away from everything
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course, but at the same time it is those same individuals who are more concerned about whether their flight may be affected, say, on Sunday, so that they can go on one of their 5 or 6 annual breaks, rather than accepting the fact that if BK gets away with this, then the door is wide open for any employer (in Norway at least, not quite sure about the rest of Scandinavia due to somewhat different laws) to do exactly the same thing; split and conquer, then outsource the employees . And they won`t know what hit them !!
The individuals who can correctly add things up might just happen to be the ones who are backing the NPU, those who see the big picture and the near future if things keep going in the wrong direction. Of course, employers, bean counters and CEOs are paying well attention to what is going on and how things are unravelling. Nobody wants industrial action, but in dire times it can and will be needed. Today is the last day before Parat/NPU pull all 650 pilots. Let`s see what happens. Standing right beside you guys!
. And they won`t know what hit them !! The individuals who can correctly add things up might just happen to be the ones who are backing the NPU, those who see the big picture and the near future if things keep going in the wrong direction. Of course, employers, bean counters and CEOs are paying well attention to what is going on and how things are unravelling. Nobody wants industrial action, but in dire times it can and will be needed. Today is the last day before Parat/NPU pull all 650 pilots. Let`s see what happens. Standing right beside you guys!
On another thread about RYR baseing in CPH someone mentioned the ability in industrial law of Scandinavian countries for other services to get involved in industrial action in support eg. Fuel and ground staff. Could the same be true with this dispute.
In fairness I have no idea if the legality is correct in the other thread.
In fairness I have no idea if the legality is correct in the other thread.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere close to me
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It does feel that the message to the public that this is not about a major pay increase, as not been conveyed good enough.
It also does seem that NAS have been better to lobby with the "newspapers" to give this a negative spin over the pilots.
People in a lot of the articles are responding that pilots should be ashamed on their close to £200.000 salaries! I believe even one newspaper made a list over the top 10 earners in Norwegian, where the majority was pilots, close to the £200.000 mark. (1.9 mill kroner)
Now I have not seen this article, but saw a reference to it somewhere else.
Furthermore DAT in October was looking for 15 - 20 A320 Captains, I wonder if this connection between Norwegian and DAT has been planned and organized for quite some time.
It also does seem that NAS have been better to lobby with the "newspapers" to give this a negative spin over the pilots.
People in a lot of the articles are responding that pilots should be ashamed on their close to £200.000 salaries! I believe even one newspaper made a list over the top 10 earners in Norwegian, where the majority was pilots, close to the £200.000 mark. (1.9 mill kroner)
Now I have not seen this article, but saw a reference to it somewhere else.
Furthermore DAT in October was looking for 15 - 20 A320 Captains, I wonder if this connection between Norwegian and DAT has been planned and organized for quite some time.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
truckflyer, I believe that assumption is correct. . . .every action by NAS has "mandated" this impasse we are in now, so I think plans will have been in place for some time now.
Googlebug, a request for "mutual assistance" was sent out to IFALPA by the Swedish Union, and I believe refuellers baggage handlers etc may be eligible to help . . . . can't imagine the CPH baggage lads missing the opportunity
Googlebug, a request for "mutual assistance" was sent out to IFALPA by the Swedish Union, and I believe refuellers baggage handlers etc may be eligible to help . . . . can't imagine the CPH baggage lads missing the opportunity
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do I understand it correctly all fuss is about highly paid Scandinavian crews do not want to loose their privileges and become equal to their colleagues from rest of Europe (all working for the same airline) and therefore asking those low paid colleagues to support them?
I wonder whether Scandinavian crews ever raised a voice on a matter that their colleagues are earning less than them while doing the same job?
I wonder whether Scandinavian crews ever raised a voice on a matter that their colleagues are earning less than them while doing the same job?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not a troll, I am just wondering. On a more serious note guys keep in mind NAX had provisioned A LOT of wet leases from tomorrow on extendable basis. And when I've heard for how long they possibly looking to extend those wet leases in a worst case scenario, I don't think you have a chance.